A new revelation to me

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by Molearner

ThatMan,

An interesting presentation....:) Here is my opinion: Check out the last verse of the scripture story you referenced.....Matthew 21:32....."And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him". The key word here is 'repent'. Basically this mirrors the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee....Luke 18:9-14. In short, the Pharisee bragged about his adherence to the law. The tax collector, on the other hand, in his prayer said...."God, have mercy on me, a sinner". Jesus commended the tax collector and said that he(the tax collector) would be exalted for humbling himself and that the Pharisee who exalted himself would be humbled.

In effect, the tax collector repented by his own admission....he recognized his sin and threw himself on the mercy of God. The Pharisee, in his pride, showed no recognition of any sin or shortcoming. This speaks directly to the first and last paradox that caught your attention. Yes, your scripture does indicate that the Pharisee will eventually enter the kingdom. The scripture that indicates this possibility to me is found in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The key verse here is vs. 15....."If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames". I would suggest considering that 'he himself' can refer to the Pharisee(or any of us that are reluctant to repent).

I like real life examples also. Consider this: Perfectly healthy people do not get ambulance rides to the hospital. It is, however, that ride to the hospital that saves the afflicted. Metaphorically they are taken to the Great Physician and they are saved. The key thing in this little scenario is not the ambulance or even the doctor. Instead, it is the one who recognizes that he is sick and makes the call to place himself at the mercy of the one who can heal. This recognition of sickness can be likened to being an act of repentance. We are told by scripture that we are delusional if we believe that we are without sin. There is a void within all of us that God is prepared to address. Everything proceeds from the point of calling on him.

I agree with you! You too have eyes and ears for the real teachings that are found in the scriptures, in my case, I know that it's a gift from the Creator, I spend years reading the NT and these things never caught my attention, in fact, I would the interpretations of other people without caring to think for myself.

[Aknaton]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

So I was watching a scene from the movie Jesus of Nazareth when I heard these words: "They will get into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do"; this was Jesus saying these words to the pharisees, telling them, that those who do the will of God will get into the Kingdom of Heaven and not those who only say Yes to God. Then it struck me, is this a real verse, is this actually based on the scriptures so I did some research:

Matthew 21:23 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

This is from a parable, read the entire Matthew 21 to get a better picture, but do you notice something here: Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

So evern the pharisees will eventually enter the Kingdom of Heaven but how can this be... even after His death, resurrection and ascension, the pharisees did not change and some dozens years later nothing really changed, what was actually Jesus saying?

To me it sounds as if Jesus told them that they will eventually get into the Kingdom of Heaven, but those who they used to consider unclean ( so to say ), the publicans and the harolts, would enter into the Kingdom before them, in other words, they will be the first who enter and those who are the first ( those who think they are already there ), will be the last.

This "before you" sound as if they are also going to enter into the Kingdom, why He simply did not said that they are not going to get there at all unless they not only say Yes but actually do the will of God?

Let's use a real life examples:

They will enter into the football stadium before you.
Those who take the train will get into the school before you.
Those who do the will of God will get into the Kingdom of Heaven before you, those who do not do the will of God.

You will not use this expression in real life unless you also suggest that even those who are late ( last ) are also going to get into a place.

I always use real life examples to get a better picture of the scriptures, you see.

Tell me your opinion please.

After I had read this a while ago, during prayer, the Spirit it back to my attention. I saw the Pharisees and the related groups of people; they were interested in God and believed in Him and did as the law stated. Yet at this period of time, there were many who came claiming to be the Messiah and so they had always tested them. Jesus was no exception to this.

But, it seemed that some within the ranks were touched with hate and envy, we know where this comes from. But let us note that they didn't envy God, they sought Him.

Peter was shown by God that Jesus is the Messiah. The majority of the Pharisees and all didn't have this type of revelation. Some did believe. There were those that saw with the eyes through Jesus works that something special was in him whilst others heard with the ear through what he spoke and his knowledge of the Scriptures that was beyond human capability. "He who has ears, let him hear". This is God calling drawing them to Himself at His own time. The time that God drew that particular team of Pharisees was not yet at that time Jesus was speaking to them; Jesus wasn't generalising for all Pharisees, Saducees etc, just for that particular group that he was speaking to.

Let's remember, God draws closer to the lowly and is far from the self-exalted ones. Apostle Paul before his conversion was such a one... Yet when he met the Lord, he lowered himself. But Apostle Matthews on the other hand...

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by Aknaton

After I had read this a while ago, during prayer, the Spirit it back to my attention. I saw the Pharisees and the related groups of people; they were interested in God and believed in Him and did as the law stated. Yet at this period of time, there were many who came claiming to be the Messiah and so they had always tested them. Jesus was no exception to this.

But, it seemed that some within the ranks were touched with hate and envy, we know where this comes from. But let us note that they didn't envy God, they sought Him.

Peter was shown by God that Jesus is the Messiah. The majority of the Pharisees and all didn't have this type of revelation. Some did believe. There were those that saw with the eyes through Jesus works that something special was in him whilst others heard with the ear through what he spoke and his knowledge of the Scriptures that was beyond human capability. "He who has ears, let him hear". This is God calling drawing them to Himself at His own time. The time that God drew that particular team of Pharisees was not yet at that time Jesus was speaking to them; Jesus wasn't generalising for all Pharisees, Saducees etc, just for that particular group that he was speaking to.

Let's remember, God draws closer to the lowly and is far from the self-exalted ones. Apostle Paul before his conversion was such a one... Yet when he met the Lord, he lowered himself. But Apostle Matthews on the other hand...

Well, it's true that some of the religious leaders of that time where in favor of Christ, even if they did not make this publicly, we have scriptures about this, for example, Nicodemus. From his actions we see that he was actully drawn to Christ, I mean these are the signs, when a person, in spite of his own beliefs, still comes to Christ, searching for answers, it means that he/she is called, many are called but few are chosen to do the work of God, to became a manifestation of God on Earth.

[Dan_SF]

@Op (opening post)

Eventually, everyone will get into heaven, and the Holy Spirit is "Washing their feet" - read: undoing, even their, mistakes.

But, if they do not recognize the mistakes, it will take a bit longer, until they are willing to abandon the wrongdoing.

The question, which should be asked,is: "What is the will of God."
rather than "who will enter the kindom first".


It is important to recognize the type of question and to ask the right one, for one will tell you what to do, while the other will show you who will enter, but when will you discover what they did ? Later, right ? And when will you to enter the kingdom ? As the last ?

Originally Posted by ThatMan

@davidmartin I see, but look at that verse you provided, they go before Him and He would also follow them later, just as I said, everybody gets there in the end.

Thank you for looking at the actual word in Greek, I felt no need to do this because I was sure of my finding, you see, recently I started to see things that nobody else has ever seen in scriptures, it's like an "Aha!" moment.

I have showed in that post with the law an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth that was not actually by divine inspiration, I wonder how many other things are not actually by divine inspiration.

I only want to provide the true version of scriptures so that all people can actually free themselves while reading the scriptures, I feel that the churches have enslaved people, keeping them away from the truth, being them the only source of truth.

Do you really believe your delusions that you are the only one "finding" the real interpretation "?

Originally Posted by MAYA EL

Do you really believe your delusions that you are the only one "finding" the real interpretation "?

Don't we all believe our delusions? That is after all why they call us deluded. And what is wrong with that? After all, is not all word, thought, and form delusion. It is not necessary, and even counterproductive to question the reality of the props, sets, and characters if one wishes to experience the play and interpret its meaning. The experience of life is that much more real and meaningful if we allow ourselves to believe that at the end of it we are going to die.

No language is symbolic communication and that is different then delusional because I can tell you that the gun is unloaded and be right or I can convince you that if you put it to your head and pull the trigger an angel will stop the bullet before it touches you (delusional) so see how in the delusional scenario there's a dangerous aspect to it? Kind of like that guy that killed all of his followers by getting then to drink deadly Kool-Aid in the early 90s.