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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #81  
Old 17-06-2018, 03:06 AM
Tomma Tomma is offline
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I want to Thank especially Starman, Michelle, and Linen, for your very very touching and intelligent and brave posts! I'm reading with great interest. I'm also going through turmoil, and you guys do help me. Thank you so much!
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  #82  
Old 17-06-2018, 03:48 PM
Michelle11 Michelle11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomma
I want to Thank especially Starman, Michelle, and Linen, for your very very touching and intelligent and brave posts! I'm reading with great interest. I'm also going through turmoil, and you guys do help me. Thank you so much!
Thanks for saying that. Hugs.
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  #83  
Old 17-06-2018, 04:59 PM
Michelle11 Michelle11 is offline
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Originally Posted by Starman
Michelle11, again I can relate to what you have shared. My experience may have started out as cognitive but nurturing damaging misunderstandings, self-loathing, etc., for me built a presence within myself that matched those perceptions, and for me that presence felt ďevil.Ē Later on I also came to realize that I was a danger to myself and society as well. Today I see some act of violence on the news and I say to myself ďthere but for the grace of God go I.ď When I say it was not cognitive what I mean is that it took on a life of its own apart from what I think and I looked at it as something other than myself. It was a presence that possessed me, a presence that I had invited in by nurturing cognitive misgivings about myself. A presence that felt ďevil.Ē At that point the word ďevilĒ was more than a label which I held in my head. It was not cognitive.
Ok, I think I get it. That makes sense. The belief that I was really evil was kind of out of left field, yet that is what it felt like. This energy that wanted to consume me that I ran from most of my life was like some presence that was out to get me as if it had a life of its own. Our thoughts turn into energy that envelopes us in a way. Early on during the first couple of years I became outwardly suicidal I tried to do a meditation. I havenít been very good at them because I was spending too much time in my head instead of just allowing myself to meditate. Iím learning the difference. But I did have one successful meditation. The meditation was a vision of my chest area and there being a large, very dense, very black cloud of dark smoke hovering over my heart. It felt ominous. Then the vision shifted to my bicep and around it was a cloud of green smoke hovering over it. I took the vision to mean that I had some very toxic energy smothering my heart but that I was now strong enough to face it. The negative views of myself had turned into toxic energy that threaten my ability to breath or be alive. We need our heart to pump to live. I spent most of my life running for my life from that toxic energy because it was an energy that wanted to do me in so it took quite a few years to get strong enough in myself to survive facing it or I may have not been able to resist the suicidal urges. Urges that were the result of this toxic energy that had accumulated around my heart. Gives a whole new perspective on the human experience. We are these bodies with brains and organs but we are also energy. Well, not sure where to go with this but you got me thinking and seeing things from a new perspective.
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The mental health community places intellectual labels on mental disturbances and people are reduced to a particular label/diagnosis. We are partly to blame because we want to know what it is, what do we call it. Like calling it something will ease itsí effects.
This is true. I have spent my whole life trying to understand. In many ways it does help me to sort things out for myself but I read something by a therapist once who said he often comes across depressed people who donít know they are depressed and that when they discover they are, they think that the simple knowing they are depressed should solve the depression. It doesnít work like that but that is how many of us think. That the knowing should heal everything but the knowing, the awareness is simply the first step. We canít even begin to heal without the knowing or awareness, we do need them first to get the ball rolling so to speak. Maybe that is why we are driven by a need to know and put labels on things.
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Later I transferred to the mental health profession and over time found that most mental health professionals had a personal relationship with mental illness, mental disturbances, or some kind of emotional imbalance, either with themselves or a close family member. This is what usually drew them into the mental health profession.
Yes, I had every intention of going into the field of psychology but had a very intense foreboding feeling that if I did it would destroy me. I didnít understand it at the time but just felt like I had to listen or else. It was actually the point in time where I became reckless because I lost direction and didnít know who I was or where I was supposed to go. I eventually wound up in a field that felt like home even though I would never have chosen it for myself. That said, I am not even sure the job was important but rather the people it brought me in contact with. My boss turned out to have a very similar approach with people that my father had. Super critical about everything, seeing something wrong with everything and presenting with an angry tone about it all. As I got older, I saw that it wasnít true anger but as a child it all felt hostile to me and I never confronted it and was drawn to a boss who would continue the pattern.

Well anyway, I do wonder what would have occurred had I gone into psychology. Itís possible I would have failed out of school and that would have been hard because I identified as someone who was everyoneís therapist. Or maybe I would have stayed caught in my comfort zone of being wrapped up in helping others never taking the time to work on myself thus not getting much accomplished this life.. Or maybe I would have opened my wounds before I was strong enough to face them. When my life is over and I get the review I am hoping that I will see what would have become of me because there was a time where I felt like the path I went down that eventually led me to wanting to annihilate myself into oblivion was pretty horrific. I felt destroyed within myself and wondered how anything could have been worse. Ultimately I think the decent back into depression mostly triggered my unhealthy issue with mistakes and doing things wrong. I felt all my life choices were wrong but I am now seeing the path my life took and how it has actually served to bring me to a healing. I use to think my life was supposed to be about reaching some level of occupational success in life. I now see that those paths are merely a means to an end for our soul to work on a lesson or overcome a challenge. Canít say that is what life is about with absolute certainty or for everyone but seeing how my life unfolded has been interesting to say the least. None of it made any sense for a long time and then it all suddenly rippled into place. All the puzzle pieces began to fit. Quite a ride.

The story you recounted about the hypnosis is very interesting. There are parts to it that defy logic and in my opinion support the case for past lives and us bringing issues with us. My suspicion is that one life simply leads into the other. We pick up where we left off. The trauma from the experience of being shot and dying is having a possible impact on the womanís current life. Well I guess I should not make that assumption. She very well may be a well grounded balanced person but I have a sense that the idea that I am evil had come from a past life experience. That I made such a horrific mistake in a past life that I saw myself as unredeemable and that not just my human self but my soul in its entirety needed to be destroyed and I ended that life with those intentions. As a result I suspect I spent a bit of time in darkness with the belief that I succeeded until I was finally coaxed out of the state of self induced exile. Well, possibly a far flung attempt by my brain to make sense of something that it couldnít make sense of. I really donít see anything that major in my life to attach an evil label on myself. Maybe it is true and maybe it isnít but I guess the most important thing is that I learn to redefine my view of myself and stop tearing myself apart for being human, flawed and mistaken sometimes. I donít sense that I still see myself as evil. I know I have no desire to destroy myself but I still struggle to feel ok but Iím working it out. This conversation has been helpful. Hugs.
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  #84  
Old 17-06-2018, 05:09 PM
Michelle11 Michelle11 is offline
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Originally Posted by _dagmar_
Yes, I believe you when you say you had to start all over again.
But I do not believe it's due to the suicidal act by itself.
Actually I believe that even if you did not commit suicide you may have not learned your lesson.
This is a very astute observation. It isn't just suicides that start over. Everyone very possibly does if they haven't completed what they came to complete.

The one thing I will add to this theoretical concept about what life is about, is that nothing is ever really truly done over. Progress is an upward spiral. We may appear to be going over the same ground but we come back at it with new knowledge. Even a suicidal person who may possibly be required to try the same type of life again will come back with some potential new information that suicide isn't the answer and they will avoid going down the same path the next life. Progress isn't a giant leap, it's one step at a time.
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  #85  
Old 17-06-2018, 09:52 PM
Starman Starman is offline
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Originally Posted by Tomma
I want to Thank especially Starman, Michelle, and Linen, for your very very touching and intelligent and brave posts! I'm reading with great interest. I'm also going through turmoil, and you guys do help me. Thank you so much!
Thank you Tomma, for this kind and thoughtful feedback. We never know how what we say publicly online will touch others, or who it will touch.

God's Speed
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  #86  
Old 17-06-2018, 09:54 PM
Starman Starman is offline
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Communication is so very important, especially how we communicate, as the saying goes there is no way that we cannot communicate; because even silence communicates something. However, I think it is wise to realize that we are always communicating with ourselves, even if we direct our communication towards someone else, we are at least affirming what we have told ourselves. Then there is the internal dialogue, which leads to what, and how, we understand others and ourselves.

The internal dialogue can be in words that take place in our head, it can be in nonverbal body language, and it can also be intuitive. Often the substance of our internal dialogue is about the external world and how we relate to it, how we relate to other people, but the internal dialogue may also be about how we interpret ourselves, our emotions, thoughts, or other more intimate matters. We often come to conclusions from our internal dialogue, and another phrase for “internal dialogue” is “self-talk,” or how we talk to ourselves. This, for better or worst, is how we program ourselves.

We are all programmed, or to say it another way, we are all conditioned, and that conditioning may have come from an automatic response to stimuli or it may have come from a deliberate attempt to better cope with our existence. I find the iceberg analogy rather accurate, an iceberg is usually much larger below the water surface than it is on the surface. We, human beings have a lot more going on below the surface than we do on the surface. Generally, people just treat the symptoms that are on the surface and they usually hide, stuff, or ignore the root causes. Reasoning will only take us so far, as logic can be faulty.

There are logical fallacies in syllogistic thought. Not all reasoning is sound or valid. We base so much of our lives on what we think. Society gives more validation to what is going on in our head than they do what is going on in our heart. I used to be extremely intellectual, fixed firmly in my head, until a colleague jokingly said to me, “haven’t you ever had a gut feeling about something?” Though this person was joking, I started to seriously question that. I learned that I was afraid to truly get in touch with my heart because I had stuffed so many things that I did not want to face deep down in my heart. This is the hell, which I often now refer to on the way to experiencing heaven. A self created hell.

Journaling, or writing down my feelings started the process of looking into my own heart. Understanding that no matter what we say, we are saying it to ourselves. The messages I give to others are messages I have given to myself; we give to others the work, or lack of work, that we have done on ourselves. If I am polarized it is not because of someone else, or something that happened to me, rather it is how my mind and body reacted, automatically or manually, to what has happened to me. In my opinion human life is not about what happened to us rather life is about how we react to what happened to us; the choices, consciously or unconsciously, that we make. Blame plays no part in this. Blame and casting judgment sidetracks the issue and gets us off into another topic. Grieving is healthy, crying can be healthy, but we do not want to wallow in self-pity for too long, else we may not do the work on ourselves that needs to be done.

Whenever possible I am into the least invasive approach. I also lean towards a drugless approach when ever possible. Notwithstanding what I am sharing here is a nonspecific sweeping generalization, and there are issues where pharmaceuticals or other more invasive treatments are necessary. But a lot of healing can take place just by self-talk. Our internal dialogue, our self-talk, for better or worst, is an affirmation. We constantly affirm things to ourselves for better or worst on a daily basis. An what we affirm has consequences. We influence our own physical bodily cellular structure by constantly focusing and thinking on the same thoughts. Once we start talking to ourselves about something, over time we start visualizing what we have been talking to ourselves about, and visualizations can be very powerful. Everything is inter-connected and intra-connected. Health is balance, and our balancing dynamic is like a web, when one thing within us gets out of balance it tends to imbalance other things.

There are many wonderful tools available to us at this point in time. Tools that maybe those who came before us did not have available to them. But even without any external tools, self-love is so important. Love is a healer unto itself. Start with words of love and then move into the feeling of love. If you cannot get a hug from anyone else, wrap your arms around your body and give yourself a big physical hug. Love your legs, feet, arms, and every other part of your body, in a gentle non-narcissistic way; be gentle with yourself. What healthy messages we did not get as a child we have to give to ourselves as an adult. The key to self-healing is to accept yourself right where you are at right now regardless of your situation, and work on yourself from there. Love yourself regardless what others may say about you. In my opinion the work is never done but the benefits often exponentially increase. Have gratitude for the simplest things in life and you will more readily notice those increasing benefits.

Keep your mind out of it as much as possible. We have got to learn how to use our mind, our thoughts and imagination, or our mind, thoughts and imagination will use us. Mind is not our enemy, rather it is an innate tool that we have to learn how to use just like we had to learn how to walk and use our legs, etc. I have seen too many people who were driven crazy by their own mind. Had their thoughts dragging them around, etc. You are not your thoughts. So these are just some things that have come to me on this Sun-Day, which I thought I’d share here in this thread.

Peace
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  #87  
Old 18-06-2018, 12:44 AM
linen53 linen53 is offline
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dagmar:

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Originally Posted by linen53
Well, I commit suicide in my last lifetime and I have memories of me from that point until right now. Yes, I had to start all over again. But that's my belief.
But then why didn't you write that ? I believe .... You wrote it as if it was fact.

Well it is my truth.

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Originally Posted by linen53
Why would I want you take on my beliefs? You have your own belief system and that is just fine with me.
Well it's totally clear to me now it is your belief. I don't fight believes obviously.

I don't argue or fight. Period.

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Originally Posted by linen53
No, incarnating is not fun. It's hard, heartbreaking work.
I wouldn't know. I'd like to believe you, but I tend to only believe what exists in my personal universe.
On the other hand, I don't see the point in you lying.
So I tend to believe you.

However, I don't see suicide as a failure. But then I also don't believe in purpose.

If one is in lasting depressing pain and one does not believe it can get better, then why prolong suffering ?

It's a personal decision. In some incarnations I'm sure most of us have chosen to end it prematurely.


Can one only learn it's lesson through suffering ?
Does cancer teaches us to hang in there despite the suffering ?
And what kind of lesson would it be, to hang in there because you might win the lottery and magically heal ?

Hmmm, lessons learned are not a direct result of a case of cancer, for example. Lesson will probably not be how to tolerate cancer.
The suffering might bring on more empathy, patience, tolerance, etc., in general.


Or does it teaches to not look away but the hope for the better without prejudice about the consequences of suicide and to respect the suicidal's wishes until the very end ?

I believe we all do the best we can.

Yes, I believe you when you say you had to start all over again.
But I do not believe it's due to the suicidal act by itself.
Actually I believe that even if you did not commit suicide you may have not learned your lesson.
I believe you had to start all over again because you may have not learned your lesson.
Assuming there is any lesson to be learned at all.

Well, I have the memories. And they are my memories. Unless you are in my shoes you haven't got a clue. You may have opinions or theories, but not facts.
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If you hit rock bottom, start picking up rocks.

By embracing my imperfections I am becoming perfect.

Itís through the cracks that the light gets in.
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  #88  
Old 18-06-2018, 12:49 AM
linen53 linen53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomma
I want to Thank especially Starman, Michelle, and Linen, for your very very touching and intelligent and brave posts! I'm reading with great interest. I'm also going through turmoil, and you guys do help me. Thank you so much!

That's why we are all here. To help one another. PM me if you want to talk further.
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Deb

If you hit rock bottom, start picking up rocks.

By embracing my imperfections I am becoming perfect.

Itís through the cracks that the light gets in.
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  #89  
Old 18-06-2018, 10:55 AM
Michelle11 Michelle11 is offline
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Those were very lovely words Starman. Thanks for sharing
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  #90  
Old 25-06-2018, 11:20 PM
DemianDeen DemianDeen is offline
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Answer to the original question:

Nothing special. You would reincarnate into similar environment to learn the lessons you ignored or tried to avoid by committing suicide.

Life is a school and you get the repeated lessons until you learn from them and evolve into the next ''grade''.

Check out "The Present" from Global Truth Project for more details; it explains life in 4 pages.
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