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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Science & Spirituality

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  #41  
Old 12-01-2019, 03:08 PM
handy guy handy guy is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 80
 
that is a very big puzzle Andrew, perhaps if you concentrate on just one small corner of it for awhile as in giving yourself a break?

So what do you think about or have you studied about spirals. We see spirals in galaxies, in sea shells, on the top of our heads, in plants, etc..
Apparently an all consuming like void has no power over spirals and the laws at work with them for they are all over the place! Where is this grand spiral design coming from and how would you guess it is it being maintained in time, space and form or for eternity as far as we can tell?

On a different matter: the term "nothing" should be taken with a grain of salt when folks start talking about great things or of nothing... for in certain spiritual matters nothing really means no-thing which is not nothing!

Lets keep our feet firmly on the ground while our spirits soar. ;-)
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  #42  
Old 13-01-2019, 03:28 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 186
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewg3



Dear Ketzer,.......

I would like to thank you for your reply and for the time and effort you put in your answers. Yes, I try to make out the most out of my life …...

I know my time is limited here, and even if would not have been, I would have lived the same (according to my perception) each moment as my last, and still have motivation to live. Until 2 months ago I did not even thought of death and afterlife as I had faith in soul and afterlife. But now as my faith sort of faded and became more skeptical I sort of feel uncomfortable knowing that there in the end might be an eternal oblivion (void)/unconscious/endless dreamless sleep and not reuniting with my parents.

I appreciate that your answers were very well scientifically documented indeed.

You are welcome, but note that scientific documentation I provided is not intended so much so much to prove something to you as it is to potentially break down some beliefs you might already have about what is and is not settled science.

Can you also give another opinion on the below?

1)We both agree that the brain works on chemical reactions and electrical impulses right? There's 20 W of Energy powering up the brain right? Think of the heart as a light switch. When the light switch is turned off where does that light from the bulb go? Well in human case our memories, feelings, thoughts might go nowhere but stay there inactive and are being destroyed as the meat rots down to skeleton. Obviously the consciousness will still work for a while as the oxygen from the brain won't be depleted instantly, but step by step, so consciousness might not fade instantly(or might not fade at all if we are not just a temporary arrangement of atoms and if the consciousness does not rely on the brain/just on the brain), but thoughts,feelings and memories might do. It is said that the last sense to fade away is hearing.

In the debate over what scientists call the “hard problem of consciousness”, there are those who do say the brain is the source of consciousness and when it goes, so does consciousness. This would seem to make sense because we notice that when something happens to the brain (e.g. frontal lobotomy), the nature of the person seems to be radically affected. But there are those who disagree and say the brain is more like a filter for consciousness. Yes, the holographic individual that is created by the filter changes when the filter is altered, but consciousness itself precedes the filter and remains unaltered in its basic nature. The first might argue that it is matter that gives rise to consciousness, and this is rational and logical from the viewpoint of the material realist. But the second might point to the double slit experiment and quantum physics and say, but is not matter just the representation of the vibrations in the quantum fields created within consciousness when it interacts with those fields? How can matter give rise to consciousness when it seems to depend on consciousness interacting with the quantum field in order to create matter in the first place?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2.../#6727ccd328c4

Who is right? IDK! Perhaps it is all in how one defines what is meant by “existing” and what is understood as “me”. Certainly the thinker and feeler that we experience during our lives as a “me”, is altered when the brain is altered. So if that is what we define as me, then yes it dies in much the same way the character you create in your mind as you read a story might die at the end of the book. On the other hand, if consciousness interacting with the quantum field is creating the matter that creates the brain that creates the filter that it then uses to spin a story for itself to experience, then though that story ends, consciousness continues on since that life, that “me”, was a hallucinatory experience created by consciousness in the first place. So, will you die and cease to exist? As usual, the answer appears to be ness. While all the facts you point out about brain death may be true, they are not conclusive to the question of what is the underlying nature of experience, including the experience of life? Does the person falling into a black hole pass the horizon without harm, or do they disintegrate and spread out over the surface area of the horizon? The answer is yes and/or no depending on how you ask the question and who you ask it to, the one doing the falling in, or the one watching it.

So what to believe in the absence of proof? I am willing to bet you anything you like that consciousness goes on after death, if you are willing to bet it does not and its oblivion for all. It's a bet I will never have to pay out on.


2)Why don't we remember how was it before being born? Why I don't remember how was it in the 1800's, why I feel void when I think about it? I hope it won't be the same as before being born (void) when I will die, but belief won't help make something reality. I heard my mom telling me that we are not allowed to remember past lives/experiences. But then I can postulate the previous Tooth Fairy story saying that "We are not allowed to see the fairy as she is invisible", or whatever that "dinosaurs still exist and are invisible so not allowed to see them".

I can postulate all day on why I don’t remember past lives. If by “I” we mean a character created by a brain composed of matter which was created by the interaction of consciousness with the quantum fields, then that “I” may not have had a previous life. Then again, maybe Mom is right, its against the rules. Maybe you don’t want to know about past lives because knowing with certainty of the illusory nature of the life experience spoils the effect consciousness is trying to experience in the first place. Going into battle in “real” life is a very different experience then going into battle in a video game.
BTW, believing in something can help to make it real, certainly, this is true of the olympic athlete, and true of the person taking the placebo. Personally, I suspect this is true well beyond the effects that science can currently explain. I might even say that believing in things may be the only thing that does make them real. That said, even if that is true, just because I may be able to create something in my simm world by believing in it, does not necessarily mean I can force that belief and creation to appear in yours. Just because I see you disintegrate at the horizon, does not mean you see it the same way. It is not just time and space that is relative, reality is relative to the observer.


3)How can I know that people that claim Reincarnation/NDE are telling the truth for real and not hoax? How come they are not Hallucinating with a brain which is being Oxygen depleted and fighting for survival (since in NDE, DMT might kick in?),why so many types of NDE, why not just the light tunnel for example?And yes I know NDE might be different from Death. In Reincarnation case they might make-up stories or just hallucinate as well by their brains imagination? How to know that soul/afterlife are not man-made inventions since stone age to get over death more easily? Do other insects/animals have souls as well? Also what do you think will happen if a person is Cryo preserved/frozen in liquid nitrogen right after death? Will they experience a coma-state like being unconscious?

You can’t know if someone is telling you the truth unless you know what the truth is. And again, if we live in some sort of parallel simm universes, they may be telling you something that is true in theirs but not in yours. We are all hallucinating all the time. Our experience of reality is not out there, our brains create a virtual reality hologram world within based on the binary data being fed into them by the nerve fibers of the senses. That is the world in which we experience our lives. Ultimately, the senses and the brain themselves may be part of a larger and deeper illusion of reality, a larger holographic universe within. “Out there” may not exist at all, or at least may need to be redefined or the meaning of the term re-understood. Whatever death may be, a transition to something else, or fade to black, the experience is going to be a hallucination, I might argue that all experience is a hallucination, in any dimension, on any plane of existence. So what, it is experience nonetheless. I would expect the transition to death to be different for all of us because the hallucination created is always going to draw from the understanding and expectations of the consciousness going through it, the one creating the hallucination. I would expect this to be true regardless of how the death transition ends. We all build our realities a bit different and therefore they all decay away a bit differently, regardless of what comes after.

Reincarnation is the same way, could be BS’ing you, could believe it themselves but be typing from a padded room, could be true and accurate, could be skimming through one of an infinite number of eternally existing life stories that they never actually completely lived out...could be, could be, could be any of them or any combination. But unless you know the truth (assuming even that there is only one truth), how can you ever judge another’s claims with any certainty.

I am getting well beyond science here and into my own spiritual beliefs, but I would not say things “have souls”. IMO, there is consciousness, and it takes many forms, and it is all forms. It is the creator and the created and the experiencer of that creation. It is, I believe, fundamental, but undefinable and unknowable in its fundamental state. It can only be experienced through it expressions. It is the nothing from which all things arise and to which all things fade back into. It is the information, the informer, and the informed. Time, space, matter, and form are all derivatives that arise from and within this mystery we call consciousness.


4)If I experience Past Live Regression/NDE, how can I know that what I am experiencing is true/real and not a hallucination of my brain?

It is all hallucination and it is all true and real. You can travel through any part of the block universe you desire, you can experience any story in the akashic records you wish. It is your universe, they are your records, ultimately every answer you find there is true, nothing is hidden from you that will not be revealed. You just need to know how to ask the question, and how to believe in the answer you get.

5)Will I really be me after death? Will I get to meet my parents after their death and mine?

Yes.

Thank you in advance,
Andy
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  #43  
Old 20-01-2019, 04:46 PM
andrewg3 andrewg3 is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 19
 
Thanks guys for your help, it is much appreciated.

I sort of strengthen my belief in the afterlife, there is nothing to lose. It would be just sad to know that we are governed just by our brains and as the brain die we become void. not just us but our loved ones as well.

I just hope that there is an afterlife where we will meet loved ones, and that the souls and the afterlife are not just concepts made by stone-age people (as they probably did not realize that they have brains), to get over death more easily or just brain hallucinations.
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  #44  
Old 20-01-2019, 05:24 PM
SeaZen SeaZen is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,072
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewg3
Hi everyone,

I'm Andrew and I'm 23 years old male working as an Mechanical Engineer.

First of all, I don't intend to argue with anyone, I am here as I require help, and I believe I can receive it from you guys.

I have been diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety since I was 17, due to various reasons such as being scolded by my parents and enduring school pressure from them.


Thank you in advance.

Yours faithfully,
Andrew

Hello Andrew, I read an article about ketamine therapy for depression administered by professional M.D.'s in a clinical setting and the success rate is very high. I highly recommend you look into it for a clinic near you.

https://www.webmd.com/depression/new...e-depression#1
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  #45  
Old 20-01-2019, 07:31 PM
Ziusudra Ziusudra is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 469
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Andrew,
I am concerned about the way you are focusing on death and its afterlife.
Are you under the care of psychiatrist and therapist?
If not, you need to see them STAT. Just getting some psych meds from any healthcare provider is NOT a proper way to manage chronic major depression.
It needs specialists to assess and to manage.

It does not matter if you get to reunited with your parents after their death in afterlife because anything happens to your life, they will die inside before their physical deaths. Their life will no-longer matters and they will struggle to just survive with the pain of loosing a child.
Suicide is most selfish act that destroys the love ones.
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"Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional" -- Dalai Lama
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  #46  
Old Yesterday, 01:36 AM
LonLon LonLon is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Jipang
Posts: 66
  LonLon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewg3
Thanks guys for your help, it is much appreciated.

I sort of strengthen my belief in the afterlife, there is nothing to lose. It would be just sad to know that we are governed just by our brains and as the brain die we become void. not just us but our loved ones as well.

I just hope that there is an afterlife where we will meet loved ones, and that the souls and the afterlife are not just concepts made by stone-age people (as they probably did not realize that they have brains), to get over death more easily or just brain hallucinations.

”there is nothing to lose”  Very true!! you definitely got wisdom here which we all strive for.

Take your time Sweetie. As I've said, don't rush to reach conclusions especially when you are so young. Many of us here have changed (/will change) our opinions, attitude, the way of thinking, vision etc. about spiritual matters, which includes afterlife throughout our lives.
What you've (/will) learned through your struggle will be a diamond in you! Many of us are too scared to face reality and truth and do our best to escape from them , but at least, you are very courageous in that you try to know and interpret them. You do have courage andrewg3, in order to live, and that's all that matters at this point.


Don't forget to feel the love (good vibes) from people around you, animals, plants, sun, etc....they, we, are always here for you to remind you who you are. Don't forget to feel the gratitude which does always exist inside of you, too. Also, please be a bit more relaxed about your life. You'd be an eventual winner if you end up being the comedian of your own story that is life, but that's just my opinion
From what I can tell from your words, you've just started to trust your feeling and learn how to follow your heart. You'll find your intuition soon. Baby steps, baby steps, go andrewg3 !!

Last edited by LonLon : Yesterday at 07:38 AM.
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  #47  
Old Yesterday, 04:10 PM
taurus taurus is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 27
 
Hello Andrew,

I think you do want to believe about the afterlife. I also was at a point where I wasn't phased about death but the thought of losing the people I love scared me more.

In one of your posts you say that how can you prove that people landed on the moon unless it was real-time, it could of been made by Universal Pictures. In a way it's good not to take things at face value. In less extreme situations some people are too readily accepting of very bogus information.

As a science-based person you have come to a spiritual forum, however, and science is usually to the point and fact-based than the oftentimes meandering spiritual knowledge with its explanations.

I think perhaps you might want to create some thought experiments, lay down your hypotheses, try out something and record your results. Right now you're stuck in a hopeless state because you aren't moving forward and aren't receiving any new knowledge. Spiritual experiences are very easy to discount because you can just put it all down to the imagination.

Anyway one experiment you can do is a past life regression. I found this one very safe to do on my own (I'm too new to make URLs links) Youtube 'Brian Weiss: Past-Life Regression Session' and it's the 36:23 one. The first time I did it I had to play it twice before I got any information. If you're feeling resistant to the experience you may have to try this a few times before you get any results. Brian Weiss will ask you what you see and I think he asks what era it is. The first time I did a past life regression I got details and facts about setting, costumes people were wearing and the era my lifetime was based in that I had never heard before. The trick was to just let whatever came to mind and analyse it later. Afterwards, I googled them and it all matched up. You may come across some facts that challenge your preconceived beliefs, you won't know until you try.

Anyway, that's one option.

Another way is to try induce an out-of-body experience. I believe most people once they leave their body no longer question an afterlife and meeting their loved ones again. This technique is so much harder than trying to lucid dream, however, and I am yet to successfully achieve this but you can have a poke around the astral projection board on this forum and one of the threads points to a site and who knows you may be way better than me if you're determined. Then theoretically you could go visit one of your "hallucination" characters and tell them your dilemma and see if they could help you come up with an answer you would be open to. Again, try something to take you forward. Posting on this forum was a good first move =]

Another thing to say is that science is usually behind on explaining/proving things that people are already open to accepting without proof.

One area that will broaden your horizons is that the heart actually has "brain" cells. It is equipped to think. Perhaps one day they'll find out that the heart contains a form of consciousness. Alternative therapies already believe that we store memories in various parts of our body and that when we get tense we have a hard time recalling the memory. Again, unfortunately, I can't provide a URL so I will leave it up to you if you're interested to see if you can find any scientifically-backed studies in this area.

But one way to move through life is to find a system that works for you. What really matters is not whether a particular system is true but rather how well it works for you and coping in the world. When the system no longer works trade it for another. Would you rather feel bad gravitating towards one area or feel peace gravitating towards another? Make a choice that works for you.

Good luck =]
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