No God

[sentient]

Originally Posted by running

i think both the narcissist and the heroine addict and everyone and everything has only one desire. and that is to find god. what is everything searching for? joy and peace.

It has been said that “Tantra is the language of Samsara” and that statement seems to hold some truth to it, for example both the narcissist and the more enlightened person have no choice in regards to their actions/behaviour but from entirely different reasons and perspectives ...

the current programming of the people at this time will associate it in a negative context. i would bet many people on here think me in negative ways and some may even think i do drugs and so on.

If one has never had profound awareness shifts with the consequent shifts in the perception of Reality ("What Is") one perhaps cannot imagine that which you have described.

And when Reality changes, so do the “rules of the game” which is why ‘we’ have Hinayana, Mahayana and Vajrayana/Tantra. Practices are different depending on ‘where you/we are AT’.

And Mandala – as I understand it is one way of describing where one is AT.
https://www.tibetan-buddhist-art.com...es-500x380.jpg

Centre and its surrounds.
Buddhahood can be at its centre or Egohood, both have their respective (surrounding) aspects.

Conceptual ‘knowing ground’ can be at the centre of the Mandala or intuitive, direct-inner-knowing, which perhaps could be described as a ‘ground of no ground’, because the conceptual mind cannot know it.

"The current programming" is perhaps fearful of losing its 'ground' seeing such an idea threatening .....

*

[running]

Originally Posted by sentient

It has been said that “Tantra is the language of Samsara” and that statement seems to hold some truth to it, for example both the narcissist and the more enlightened person have no choice in regards to their actions/behaviour but from entirely different reasons and perspectives ...



If one has never had profound awareness shifts with the consequent shifts in the perception of Reality ("What Is") one perhaps cannot imagine that which you have described.

And when Reality changes, so do the “rules of the game” which is why ‘we’ have Hinayana, Mahayana and Vajrayana/Tantra. Practices are different depending on ‘where you/we are AT’.

And Mandala – as I understand it is one way of describing where one is AT.
https://www.tibetan-buddhist-art.com...es-500x380.jpg

Centre and its surrounds.
Buddhahood can be at its centre or Egohood, both have their respective (surrounding) aspects.

Conceptual ‘knowing ground’ can be at the centre of the Mandala or intuitive, direct-inner-knowing, which perhaps could be described as a ‘ground of no ground’, because the conceptual mind cannot know it.

"The current programming" is perhaps fearful of losing its 'ground' seeing such an idea threatening .....

*

my guidance told me freedom lies in circles. its interesting the picture you of the mandela is in a circle.

when i have a chance im gonna spend some time on it.

over the recent years i have been learning a little here and there about my girlfriend's dealings with her step dad whom she believes is a narcissist. i say believe because i have no first hand experience with one to know much about it. because he is a psychologist it helped him or perhaps still does to manipulate people to his liking. it was very hard on her growing up. but she is getting past the controlling atmosphere she grew up in. so what you say about them is making sense to me from what i have heard from her.

thank you for the education!

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by Gem

You see how that can't be realized 'later on'? No one lives later on. The imaginary future me who is enlightened and purified is entirely fabricated by the powerful mind.
Then there is remembered me who is supposed to be the same one as the future me, but past has gone by and future is not happening, so 'this' is 'it'.

Ideas like those lead to experiences of enlightenment. Questioning the whole construct we live within and accept. In this moment, finding freedom from the known.
Then everything expands and we are free, for a moment or an eternity.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Gem

You see how that can't be realized 'later on'? No one lives later on. The imaginary future me who is enlightened and purified is entirely fabricated by the powerful mind.
Then there is remembered me who is supposed to be the same one as the future me, but past has gone by and future is not happening, so 'this' is 'it'.

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Ideas like those lead to experiences of enlightenment. Questioning the whole construct we live within and accept. In this moment, finding freedom from the known.
Then everything expands and we are free, for a moment or an eternity.

If one thinks about a Buddhist path as a ‘journey’ from Egohood to Buddhahood, then I agree. Obviously visualizing yourself as a Deity or the love and light in the world whilst in that narcisstic egoic state can only lead to further delusions, to further imprisonment, to further suffering.

So I assume Hinayana path starts by emptying out ... with cutting that ego-trip down. I assume it cuts everything down. As it is supposed to.

But what happens, when you no longer act from the egoic point of view and start to experience egolessness. How to handle egolessness?
That is a game changer and now visualizations can be (re)introduced.

The State of “Egohood”
Ego is able to convert everything to its own use, even spirituality.
For example, if you have learned of a particularly beneficial meditation technique of spiritual practice, then ego’s attitude is, first to regard it as an object of fascination and, second to examine it.
Finally, since ego is seeming solid and cannot really absorb anything, it can only mimic. Thus ego tries to examine and imitate the practice of meditation and the meditative way of life.
When we have learned all the tricks and answers of the spiritual game, we automatically try to imitate spirituality, since real involvement would require the complete elimination of ego, and actually the last thing we want to do is to give up the ego completely.
However, we cannot experience that which we are trying to imitate; we can only find some area within the bounds of ego that seems to be the same thing.
Ego translates everything in terms of its own state of health, its own inherent qualities. It feels a sense of great accomplishment and excitement at have been able to create such a pattern.
At last it has created a tangible accomplishment, a confirmation of its own individuality.

~ Chögyam Trungpa

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Ideas like those lead to experiences of enlightenment. Questioning the whole construct we live within and accept. In this moment, finding freedom from the known.
Then everything expands and we are free, for a moment or an eternity.

I think in consideration of the truth of where the attention is, the moment it really exists in, all that exists is right here, and one's interest becomes about the truth just as it is experienced. Notions of future conjectures are noticed to be imagined along with the craving associated with all that. It isn't then a matter of squashing the imagined future or the associated craving, but just knowing 'this is mind'. Not as knowledge, but with the direct awareness of the nature of the thing.



If that is the fundamental quality of 'what meditation is', then people would be guided by their insightful understanding and not the knowledge someone taught them. The truth of 'this is how it is' would underpin any formalisation of technique.


For example, breath awareness: You know how it feels not because you have a lot of knowledge in Buddhist philosophy, but because you are feeling it currently. What does it actually feel like? No one knows. You can only know 'what it's like' in the moment of noticing it.

[running]

ego in reguards to bliss and silence.

when the silence or the bliss or lets say both become introduced to the experience. there is a back and forth that goes on between the individual and it. also the physical body as well.

the ego. the physical body. and the bliss have to become one. this is the dating process as i see it. or what is called the kundalini awakening.

the ego and the body can only take so much at a time. the mind would literally for moments to longer completely and or to a lesser extent not be functional. you may be there but you wont be able to react, think, experience anything other than a deep silence and bliss. the body for some people may become non reactive. i never experinced not being able to use my body but you hear about it. from various people.

this process of the mind, the body, and bliss and silence to all come together can take years, decades, or even a lifetime.

in the process and why i call it dating is because it comes and it goes. when the mind calms down and or the body calms down. bliss and silence can sneak in there.

over time the system becomes open enough, and used to it enough. then the marriage happens. some call this the marriage of shiva and shakti. they become one in you. or in the Christian faith, son or daugher and the holy spirit. i personally saw it as actualy the mother, father, and son. the mother and father as one is the holy spirit. but that was my vision.

where people get confused is when it comes because the mind let go. thinking then ego blocks it. yes. and no. yes during the process. no after marriage.

just like anything in life there is a process. but the process is the process. the end result is end result. because bliss and silence have no ego, or how i think of it, non dual, there is no battle between you and it. no battle between the ego and it.

[running]

continued.


https://youtu.be/Cr1HHL4gSt4




.



.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by running

continued.

https://youtu.be/Cr1HHL4gSt4

This keeps coming up again and again lately – so seemingly this is where you are at, at this moment, but this is a very difficult subject to approach.

I guess Vajrayana/Tantra (energetically) is like introducing one to the ‘dating scene’.
So you fell in love. Eh? A bit like Rumi with his “Lover and the Beloved” - but energetically?

*

Rightly or wrongly I relate to the enlightened aspects of a Mandala (as an overall expression of our potential ‘enlightened’ life situation) “as though we were building a city or a zoo”, since Mandala can be depicted as a 2 or 3 dimensional representation:
https://image.slidesharecdn.com/symb...?cb=1301673158

..... or different aspects that build up our “personal psychic power” (symbolized by the Windhorse at the centre) …. I guess come from the Bon (Shamanic) tradition and can be represented by those other “4 power animals”:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/66/a4...f6c9090ec2.jpg

It is also my guess that Hinayana and Mahayana both, are cutting down processes. We cut down, we cut down everything until we discover that “non-dual-spacious-isness” core.

Once we discover the non-dual core/centre ……. as far as I can see it Vajrayana builds it up and up and up, so it is like a 180 degree turnaround from the Hinayana approach.

I mean if your awareness has already realized the nondual base/centre – you don’t teach that person the cutting down practices in order to discover it.

But this Vajrayana build up does come up to it’s crescendo, and in Vajrayana it is called Maha Ati:

“It is as though we were building a city or a zoo, and suddenly the whole sky turned into a gigantic pancake and dropped on us. There is a new dimension of surprise that we never thought of, we never expected. We never expected the sky to drop on our head....The sky turns into a blue pancake and drops on our head-nobody believes that. But in maha ati experience, it actually does happen. There is a new dimension of shock. a new dimension of logic.......Our perspective becomes completely different...You have nowhere to go. It is a cosmic pancake that falls everywhere on the face of the earth. You cannot escape-that is the basic point. ...in ati we are talking about the sky collapsing onto us."....

& I thought Trungpa Rinpoche, in that quote above expressed it well.

But running - since your experience comes from 'Shiva/Shakti sphere' – will the Buddhist or ’Shamanic’ approaches be satisfactory or explain it satisfactorily for you?

"She's razor sharp
If she don't get her way
She'll slice you apart"

If you find yourself on a razor’s edge …. Well, there are Vajrayana Buddhist references to it:

Nowness is the sense that we are attuned to what is happening. The past is fiction and the future is a dream, and we are just living on the edge of a razor blade. It is extraordinarily sharp, extraordinarily tentative and quivering. We try to establish ground, but the ground is not solid enough because it is too sharp. We are quivering between that and this. (Orderly Chaos, Chapter 2, The Razor’s Edge)

Another one:

You might feel that you are sitting and camping on the razor’s edge, making campfires quite happily, yet knowing that you are on the razor’s edge. You can’t quite settle down and relax and build your campfire, yet one still does so.

At some point in Vajrayana, one has no choice, but to do Deity practice, terrifying as they may seem:
https://www.himalayanart.org/images/.../5/6/65631.jpg

If that relates?

*

[running]

Originally Posted by sentient

This keeps coming up again and again lately – so seemingly this is where you are at, at this moment, but this is a very difficult subject to approach.

I guess Vajrayana/Tantra (energetically) is like introducing one to the ‘dating scene’.
So you fell in love. Eh? A bit like Rumi with his “Lover and the Beloved” - but energetically?

*

Rightly or wrongly I relate to the enlightened aspects of a Mandala (as an overall expression of our potential ‘enlightened’ life situation) “as though we were building a city or a zoo”, since Mandala can be depicted as a 2 or 3 dimensional representation:
https://image.slidesharecdn.com/symb...?cb=1301673158

..... or different aspects that build up our “personal psychic power” (symbolized by the Windhorse at the centre) …. I guess come from the Bon (Shamanic) tradition and can be represented by those other “4 power animals”:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/66/a4...f6c9090ec2.jpg

It is also my guess that Hinayana and Mahayana both, are cutting down processes. We cut down, we cut down everything until we discover that “non-dual-spacious-isness” core.

Once we discover the non-dual core/centre ……. as far as I can see it Vajrayana builds it up and up and up, so it is like a 180 degree turnaround from the Hinayana approach.

I mean if your awareness has already realized the nondual base/centre – you don’t teach that person the cutting down practices in order to discover it.

But this Vajrayana build up does come up to it’s crescendo, and in Vajrayana it is called Maha Ati:

& I thought Trungpa Rinpoche, in that quote above expressed it well.

But running - since your experience comes from 'Shiva/Shakti sphere' – will the Buddhist or ’Shamanic’ approaches be satisfactory or explain it satisfactorily for you?

"She's razor sharp
If she don't get her way
She'll slice you apart"

If you find yourself on a razor’s edge …. Well, there are Vajrayana Buddhist references to it:


Another one:

At some point in Vajrayana, one has no choice, but to do Deity practice, terrifying as they may seem:
https://www.himalayanart.org/images/.../5/6/65631.jpg

If that relates?

*

thank you for sharing your thoughts. here is where im coming from.

there are things that come and go. there are things that become forever. bliss and silence are the things that become forever. because that is our oirigin and what we really are.

i will share how i experience the song.

the song for one is an example of how i see everything and everbody is in search of the divine. joy/love and silence/peace

the song is relating to the dating process. again this is how i hear music often. i interpret it in the big picture of how everything only has one desire. the divine. to be clear. the process in which the force of god as in kundalini shakti becomes introduced to the person. the process of it making a home in the person. the divine mother. the source of all things. she can make herself into anything. whatever she thinks will work she will be. that was how i experinced it.

looks that kill- the death of the ego in relationship to what she needs to do to create an opening. life experiences create surrender experiences. thus over time she finds her way in.

razer sharp- describing her intelligence of how she is able to work her way in.

she will rip you apart- the physical body has to become adjusted to the power of her love. and it can be painful and or discomforts along the way as she makes a home.

motor clean-she is love itself. that cant be disturbed or disrupted. like gold can't be tarnished.

bulletproof- she is invincible

she will turn on her power- thats the bliss. kundalini shakti that moves through the nervous system.

she will turn up the juice boy- love greater than all love ever imagined that is endless in experience(bliss).

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by sentient

This keeps coming up again and again lately – so seemingly this is where you are at, at this moment, but this is a very difficult subject to approach.

I guess Vajrayana/Tantra (energetically) is like introducing one to the ‘dating scene’.
So you fell in love. Eh? A bit like Rumi with his “Lover and the Beloved” - but energetically?

*

Rightly or wrongly I relate to the enlightened aspects of a Mandala (as an overall expression of our potential ‘enlightened’ life situation) “as though we were building a city or a zoo”, since Mandala can be depicted as a 2 or 3 dimensional representation:
https://image.slidesharecdn.com/symb...?cb=1301673158

..... or different aspects that build up our “personal psychic power” (symbolized by the Windhorse at the centre) …. I guess come from the Bon (Shamanic) tradition and can be represented by those other “4 power animals”:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/66/a4...f6c9090ec2.jpg

It is also my guess that Hinayana and Mahayana both, are cutting down processes. We cut down, we cut down everything until we discover that “non-dual-spacious-isness” core.

Once we discover the non-dual core/centre ……. as far as I can see it Vajrayana builds it up and up and up, so it is like a 180 degree turnaround from the Hinayana approach.

I mean if your awareness has already realized the nondual base/centre – you don’t teach that person the cutting down practices in order to discover it.

But this Vajrayana build up does come up to it’s crescendo, and in Vajrayana it is called Maha Ati:

& I thought Trungpa Rinpoche, in that quote above expressed it well.

But running - since your experience comes from 'Shiva/Shakti sphere' – will the Buddhist or ’Shamanic’ approaches be satisfactory or explain it satisfactorily for you?

"She's razor sharp
If she don't get her way
She'll slice you apart"

If you find yourself on a razor’s edge …. Well, there are Vajrayana Buddhist references to it:


*

I’ve been observing a little bird in a friends fernery..it has nested down very low this year, mainly because her domesticated pet friends have all passed over. There is no unnatural threats to who choice of home. Those that are a natural threat or predator are managed quite naturally as nature goes within the food chain.

This tiny little bird has made the tiniest, neatest ( most strong) little nest with a perfect view and food and water source. It’s sheltered and their is an abundance of flies and smaller insects at her disposal. Some days while sitting on her eggs, she would catch them without moving. Flying all around her, she was very accurate, reach her little head forward and with a gentle snap of beak, she would swallow down her source. She has a partner who works tireslessly with her finding food for the (recently hatched- three little blue eggs) family.

Fast forward, the three little blue eggs have hatched. One early on has flown from the nest (I missed that one). The other two caught my eye recently, sitting on the edge of the nest. They were no bigger than the top half of my thumb. I couldn’t believe how small these little guys were, readying to take off and leave their temporary home. Anyhow within minutes, the parents coax them off the edge and away they flew. Such a precious moment, such a gift for me to witness and be a part of. I could hear them in the nearby canopy, whistling away with their parents, learning the art of survival, now away from the security of their short term home.


When I saw the little birds sitting on the edge, for some reason, I thought, here they remind me of sitting on the edge of the void. When I thought about my connection later, I was curious why I thought their temporary home, the place that brought them to life, was named by me, ‘the void’. The void was a beautifully created matrix, shaped and perfected by the parent’s most natural ability to do as nature as themselves intended. It was secure, supported and ‘just right’ for them as they require. So in this awareness, I see the void now very differently to what I might have envisioned it going through my process of understanding myself as ‘true nature’.

The nest now, is of course, empty, but still, complexly in tact. As a perfectly designed creation, serving to support new life, survival of one species of the earths natural world as it naturally knows to be and do, this little home or void as I likened it too, remains. Until such time, it may deteriorate or it may not.

“It depends on a lot of things”..

Anyhow, this little joyful whistler and family have melted my heart, opened me deep to not only, feel gratitude for the little things, but awareness and understanding for life, for the natural world. For harmony and awareness of their needs. Awareness of my nature one with all nature.

Today I was thinking about the journey to come back home within. At some point of my external awareness of spirit and do called higher states, I remember
Realising that understanding and awareness of all life as it is, is the ‘coming back down’ to reality realisations. The earth is the foundation, heaven is the spirit wings on earth in us. The journey of remembering our own wings, comes through in many ways, but ultimately we have to remember the void, remember the emptiness, remember our wings, our true self and we survive most naturally, especially if we have learned through understanding ourselves as other life. Especially if we go back to that emptiness and feel completely safe and secure, protected by the very source we become as ourselves.

Not just what fits, but what doesn’t fit. That we as everything inclusive of that void to begin with and it’s complete creation is us, even if we believe otherwise.

It all fits perfectly in the greater design we are in us. We are as ‘one’ whole complete source.