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  #31  
Old 19-01-2016, 04:21 AM
Yaakov001 Yaakov001 is offline
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"I came not to bring peace but the sword". Jesus of Nazareth, commonly mistaken for the Messiah.
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  #32  
Old 19-01-2016, 02:32 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Originally Posted by Yaakov001
"I came not to bring peace but the sword". Jesus of Nazareth, commonly mistaken for the Messiah.

From the Gospel of Thomas:

16. Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

Luke 12:49-59 (KJV)

49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is. 55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass. 56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time? 57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right? 58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison. 59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.



In both verse 16 and in Luke, Jesus is talking about the new and higher "truth" that he is bringing to world. A new covenant and baptism in the power of the Holy Spirit. In comparing the father against the son, he is saying that one must move on from the old ancestral jewish ways of the law. Though the path may be difficult, one must be resolute (solitary if need be) in the new way.

It is not the truth that the Christian church talks about.
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  #33  
Old 19-01-2016, 04:54 PM
Yaakov001 Yaakov001 is offline
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Well, its a POV!
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  #34  
Old 06-02-2016, 05:56 AM
Spiritualbeing17 Spiritualbeing17 is offline
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I can explain jesus and who he really was. the short version with out explanation is that he found power and found his connection before others discovered it... how can someone just as flesh and blood as us be "God" or the creator and us we arn't although we are the exact same. He couldn't be a physical image of God. There was no reason for God to be in physical form as he was waiting for evolution to gain power as we are part of God as one.
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  #35  
Old 06-02-2016, 11:01 AM
IamSoul49 IamSoul49 is offline
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CuriousOne;
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Is there any information of Jesus Christ in the old testament?

Well - that would depend entirely as to which "scholar" you asked..Some say there are lots of referances - some say there are hardly any- some say there are none at all..The jews - simply dont know - cannot decide - if this mn was their "messiah" or not - even back in His day,they STILL couldnt make up their minds - and of course,eventually,this will lead to infighting,division - civil war - many many sect will arise OUT OF the jewish faith but now all following a version of the new teachng..His impact will fracture,splinter the jews into something like 100 plus sects - all trying to make sense of this "god" of their history and the new truth of it that Christ revealed..

This will continue for a long time - three centuries later - Rome eventually tires of all the unrest - and basically orders all these sects to form one,universal "religion" (it was actually a military exercise to stamp their authority over them all)......So - its a bit pointless asking a jew about Christ - they just dont understand Him at all it seems....

Of course - seems obvious - why not simply see what Christ Himself had to say..?...The thing that really caused all this commotion - is the truth He bought..He told the jews plainly,your god is not the ACTUAL or legitimate god at all...He taught of anew and comletly unknown universal spirt - Lord of ALL creation (not just this little part here),that He said explicitly,no man had ever encoutered before,not even the Angels or god above knows this Primal spirit He said..He then proved it by doing indeed,these miraculous things - feats that no priest had power to match...Thus many began to see - He is truly Divine - and this troubled them greatly of course,as he said plaimnly,such Divinity is not of their god at all - hence the division begins and they eventually have rome silence Him...Christ Himself has no affiliation to the jewish god - openly disavows that god at every chance He can,tells one and all,it is not a god at all,merely an Angel,who mistakenly thnks it self to be supreme....A good deal of His teaching actually,is to turn people away from the religion the old tradition and especially the temple - and yes - He is most scathing and critical of the religous leaders...Strangely - for everyone else,he has utmost love,compassion,empathy - but for the religious leaders and scholars..?...DAMN them He said - and this animosity is only ever apparant ,reserved for the religion alone - He despised it...

ObServant;
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So the tales tell - truth is often not the same as someone's account of events.

VERY VERY TRUE !! But tell us - does this statement apply also - to jewish tradition..?..or do you only apply it to none jewish sources,and take your own "tales" as truth always,regardless..??..

Quote:
They never saw him do it - they just heard tales about these alleged events after Jesus had died.

And of course - the same applies to all your jewish heritage as well - yes..??..

RabbiO;
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So you understand, in the way that you are using the term "rabbi" there were no rabbis in the time of Jesus.

What..?...In the "way he used the term" he clearly refers to Christ as being a "master" - one who is capable of instructing in spiritual truth - now,the word may be different - different label - but the definition and function remain identical - a rabbi is indeed a "spiritual leader" is it not..?...and yes indeed,the jews had many of those - a whole council - san hedrin - did they not..?..Different words perhaps - but - EQUAL STATION...

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Furthermore, to refer to the Pharisees as the religious authorities of Jesus' time is to misunderstand the nature of 1st century Judaism.

Hmm - this is - wrong - also....They did indeed have full authority over the common man,as in,the common man,relied on them fully for all guidance and interpretation of the laws..The jewish historian Josephus,wrote of them -

Quote:
"the Pharisees were considered the most expert and accurate expositors of Jewish law."

The Pharisees preserved the Pharisaical oral law in the form of the Talmud..Of the leading main jewish sects,these would become the foundation of "Rabbinic Judaism" - you know - the mainstream kind that is here today

Quote:
All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees)

ObServant;
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Why do we get Christian preaching in the Jewish section of the site?

Hmm - ask yourself here - WHAT do you fear..?...if your god and religion is truth,then what matter..?...And yes - the quote is indeed relevant TO YOUR RELIGION - of course it is - He is speaking about YOUR RELIGIOUS LEADERS after all - wholly pertinant - obviously...

Quote:
Maybe so, but 99% of his followers today (Christians) are not (jews).

Hmm - this also - is wrong...Fact is Christ was not a jew at all - even though He was born into that culture,as said,He totally disavows that god and tradition,right from the start...(come to hate your parents He said,alongside those damning pharisee statements)..And second point here - 99% of "christians" - mainstream,bible adherant christians - are indeed JEWS,because look,THEY follow the same god you do,and their whole history of it IS tied directly to the same shared origin and destination - is it not..?..Again - dfferent labels and words - but by definition,they are the same...To follow the bible is to to find the god of the jews - but this is not where Christs authentic teaching will lead (Christ authentic teaching is not to be found in the bible)...In short then,both religions - they are all,STILL jews in a very real sense - and any TRUE Christian,would not be following EITHER version,as Christ already said,that is the wrong god entirely - not the Father He taught of..
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  #36  
Old 06-02-2016, 05:22 PM
Amilius777 Amilius777 is offline
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Jesus wasn't a Jew?

You would have a very hard time arguing with top scholars and doctorate teachers on that matter.

There are so many verses that are so Jewish that the early Church actually tried watering it down and hiding the fact many of his statements were even reverence for the Temple and certain priests.

Yeah maybe he wasn't in alignment with Pharisaic, Sadduceeish, or Layman Jewish at the time. Perhaps he was more of the "Essene" type Jewish but either way he respected many passages in the Old Testament and believed at times he was the "promised" messiah that was spoken of by Moses, David, and Isaiah.

The Essene community existed before Jesus and their teachings are ridiculously similar to Jesus' and they were a sect of Judaism. But they felt and I feel as well they were closer to the original Judaism which came from the School of the Prophets. It was passed down from Samuel, Elijah, Elisha, and minor prophets and then to Mt. Carmel which became the Essenes. Far more mystical, metaphysical, spiritual and about the true nature of God.

The Temple Judaism didn't like the Essenes because they felt they weren't in line with Moses and the older prophets. Jesus respected and revered Moses but you can see that Jesus rarely quotes Moses except on certain things.

So maybe your right he wasn't what the average "Judaism" was, his was more mystical and action-orientated towards those seen as untouchable and hated.
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  #37  
Old 06-02-2016, 08:27 PM
IamSoul49 IamSoul49 is offline
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Amilius; Hmm...I know what you mean - but really - surely - its the essence of belief tself,that determines the definition..?...A jew then - essentially,in a very real way - is ANYONE who worships the god known as yahweh - anyone who believes the Israelite heritage - anyone who believes that god,is "god supreme" - is by definiton - a jew...

I say that obviously - logically - undeniably - as to "be a jew" is to be part and parcel of a custom,religion and society that has NO SEPERATION from that god at all...You dont HAVE to be devout and follow all customs and beleifs to be a jew in essence ( I have a jewish friend,claims the faith but doesnt observe a sabbath for instance,or go to a temple - just as many claim a religious truth but dont ACTUALLY follow religious dictates) - all you need do truthfully in essence,,is recognise THAT god as supreme,and immedialty,your ESSENTIAL TRUTH is wholly alligned with the complete jewish faith,BY DEFINITION OF BELIEF,as in you all believe inthe same one god...

Hence I say two distinct logical things - first - Yeshua is NOT a jew - as ACTUALLY,He says that god is false,not a god at all,refuses its station as "supreme god" altogether - so by definiton,He CANNOT be jewish as He does NOT follow that god (at all,doesnt even pretend to)..He then goes on to tell of ANOTHER "god" that He IS affilaiated with - and so the seperation from His jewish label is complete..

Likewise I say,and it just as logically valid - ALL bible following christians,ARE at that same level of essential truth,jewish themself - even if they dont claim that label or follow ANY jewish religious practice,STILL the essential truth of BELIEF remains,they ALL follow the SAME one god and so,at the core foundation of thrir beliefs,they ARE jewish...Same of course would apply to muslims,who likewise are jewsih at the core,following the same one god who is chief patron of all three religions....

Note here though - they are all jewish I say,and logicvally this is so - but it does not work the other way around...They are NOT all christian neither all muslim - that would be incorrect to state,as christians fiollow Christ (so they think) explicitly - and likewise,muslims follow mohammed explicitly...jews dont follow either,so cannot be called anything but jews - however - the common denominator god of all three religions,means essentially at the core,they are all "jewsih" as that is the first religion of this god..

Quote:
There are so many verses that are so Jewish that the early Church actually tried watering it down and hiding the fact many of his statements were even reverence for the Temple and certain priests.

So many verses WHERE..?....The only such referances come form a BIBLE or sanctioned BY the church,yes..?..And as we all know - tht book is man made,not first hand and contains very little truth of Chirst at all...Check the ORIGINAL gospels that this church banned as "herasy",and there we will see Christ legitimate truth..

Quote:
Yeah maybe he wasn't in alignment with Pharisaic, Sadduceeish, or Layman Jewish at the time.

Oh no - much worse than that - He was very clear and adamant - said most definatly and most defiantly that the god of the jews,that claimed to be supreme was lying and tricking us all - only an angel He said,and that He Himself knew this as truth,as He came from a Primal Sovereign deity,He called Our Father and that He said,was directly responsible for ALL Creation..He then explained literally everything - this Primal spirit,how it came about,how creation actually occurs even - why it happened - what was created in what order - all the way through - past the creation of the jewish god yahweh and how that came about,and continued to how THAT god did indeed create us here directly - even told us what to expect when we die and the destination of our Souls based on the current situation,as well as the NEW destination of our Soul,if we followed HIM and His way....

There can be no mistake - He was not a jew at all - totally disavowed that god entirely and even advised others to give up that god as well...Said it was but one type of Angel - He said yes,it DID create THIS universe and life here within it - BUT - it is only one amongst some 360 others that are similar in power and authority...Not the source of creation he said as it claimed to be,but merely a creature like You and I..In fact,He had a lot more to say - but I will keep silent there as I know you already know it,and also because it will offend the jews here greatly,to hear His truth about their god - but realise - it was indeed FOR this truth,because of it,that the jews have rome intercede to silence Him..
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  #38  
Old 08-02-2016, 07:33 PM
Amilius777 Amilius777 is offline
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360 Gods? One of them an a Angel made this world?

I don't know about you but there is only God, or the One. I don't care what some gnostic dude said in whatever book or what some crackpot coulda said in the Bibl somewhere.

The material universe is just the denser, limited, most constricted and separated than all other realms. It's a plane where Spirit decided to lower its vibration to a slower and lower rate of energy and consciousness.

Spirit is the nature of God and of ourselves. Everything comes from Spirit and so does the individuality or identity of Spirit that is distinct from our own unique selves which we call "God" or "Father-Mother Energy" "Supreme Being" whatever

When our selves, Spirits descend Into this realm to incArnate, our energy is lowered and we become subject to the laws of this plane to become a fetus and finally born as a child of whatever species or race.

Earth is a schoolroom among many but it's the most difficult of all the school rooms . It is also a place that God gave to humans to take care of and make a little home for us while on our journey back to our real Home.

Angels are highly evolved spirits who no longer work as individual spirit guides, and have no longer an earthly consciousness or connection. Majority of them are extremely ancient and evolved and are pure spirit or energy now. They are assigned to whatever sphere or rank dependinf on their state of evolution:'seraphim, cherubim, etc. They are very powerful and independent but in oneness with the Divine Energy Itself. They are different from Masters and Saints because they have remained to stay in Spirit realm and evolve a different way. saints and Masters are highly evolved entities who decide to keep coming back to the Earth realm to spread spirituality and to evolve this way maintaining an energetic connection to physical beings or humans or what not for our evolution and salvation. Jesus is one of many among them but his purpose in the grand design was to be the messiah, enlightened One to the people of Israel who were part of a special Soul Group to bring a conscious awareness of the Divine Into the Earth through a series of "COVENANTS"

The Covenants were states of consciousness that the Hebraic nation went through, an evolution of spirituality as individuals (prophets and Kings) and as a whole (Israel).

So of course their understanding of the One Spirit was juvenile, punitive, and ignorant during the time of Moses and so forth. It was a reflection of their Stage of development. The world then reflected their view of God. And it was not limited to just Israel, even India and Pagan Europe was limited in its view.

If you follow the whole Bible up to the time of Christ you see why he came at such a later date. He as a soul on his own journey went hand in hand with the Soul Group he was a part of (Israel). When they reached that point of evolution 2,000 years ago they were ready for the Next Level, a higher way of living, a Christening of Judaism. Something similar happened in the Far East with the Buddha and spreading of Buddhic awareness. Jesus was the only soul among his group and people he was connected to from many Incarnations where he could fulfill the promise and office of "The CHRIST". That is why he was promised to THEM. He was their Enlightened Teacher they awaited who would embody the highest state of love/light of God.

Jesus knew so much becuase he had evolved also through so many dimensions and levels on the Other Side that he had no need to reincarnate, and if he wwre to come back he would be a medium for the Divine and Even his body would Hold a higher vibration due to his holy Consciousness he possessed. God and this Enlightened Soul decided to create a plan and pattern for these people they held a connection and promise to where he would live out a drama for their benefit. He accomplished it and was reaurrected due to the higher thoughts and vibration he held In himself from his mind. It was a symbolic act from God to THEM and to the world at large (pagan Europe contrĂ´lled by Imperialism) that I AM WHO AM has the Last say, the victory, and will resurrect everyone from their suffering, and that Love is stronger than death- there is no Death

Now what Chesitianity did with this Dispensation that occurred is a ankther story and very sAd one. If anythinf the original Gnostics and Apostles shares the original teachings and purpose of this "renewal/revolution of Spirit in human history".

the point I'm making is that yiu can't separate Jesus the man from his heritage, his soul-group, and traditions at large and why he was there at that time in history. Now he was also a developing soul shifting from state to state. When he came closer to his death and finally came back and began inspiring people with the outpouring the Spirit, awakening the CHRIST consciousness in others, he told them to spread the teachings to the rest of the Known World. Even jesus as a man was a product of his time. He didn't realize until after his purpose was fulfilled that it was the Gentile nations that needed this teaching Even more. Even though he was an enlightened Higher soul (the Son) he learned obedience as Paul says and Paul was a true gnostic In a spiritual sense. He experienced the Chrsit Consciousness in himself. But he knew the teachings had to spread because of his Inner calling from God.

Jesus was pure and had no sin in his present lifetime, but he wasn't perfect and all knowing. He was still a product of his time and age. He said "Salvation is for IsRael!" When he spoke angrily to the Samaritan woman. He called her a "dog" and she hit back at him "even the dogs get table scraps". He apologized and helped her and her child. It showed that even he was evolving as a soul
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  #39  
Old 08-02-2016, 07:56 PM
IamSoul49 IamSoul49 is offline
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Amilius;
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360 Gods? One of them an a Angel made this world?

I don't know about you but there is only God, or the One. I don't care what some gnostic dude said in whatever book or what some crackpot coulda said in the Bibl somewhere.

I AGREE - there is only one true God,capital G - as in ONE Supreme Lord and PRIMAL CAUSE for ALL CREATION - absolutely that is so - but it isnt the god of the hebrews,christian bible or muslim faiths,despite what that one claimed..

Quote:
Spirit is the nature of God and of ourselves. Everything comes from Spirit and so does the individuality or identity of Spirit that is distinct from our own unique selves which we call "God" or "Father-Mother Energy" "Supreme Being" whatever

Im really glad you said that and see things that clearly - exactly as I my Self see it - understand then - this one that claims to be superior in these 3 religions - is only one of those INDIVIDUALISED and UNIQUE selves that are SEPERATE and DISTINCT entities...This one,is indeed a unique,singular entity,and not an "all pervading spirit" - it is a CREATURE,made in due process as you describe..

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When our selves, Spirits descend Into this realm to incArnate, our energy is lowered and we become subject to the laws of this plane to become a fetus and finally born as a child of whatever species or race.

And again I agree completly - understand then -this one in the religions - is undergoing the EXACT SAME PROCESS that creates us - only difference,it is occurring on levels of creation that PRECEDE and CAUSE this one to form - BUT - it is NOT directly from the SOURCE at all - is not the DIRECT cause of creation - just an "end product" exactly the same as You and I,only made prior to our own creation - yes,above us then,in "spiritual heirachy" - nearer to Source of course,but not ACTUALLY the Source - just one amongst many such creatures so fashioned,inhabiting many such worlds and layers to creation....

Perhaps I should just leave it there for now - hardly the place to discuss such a thing is it..?..Open a thread if you like about the nature of this god,and I will gladly continue..For now - as you have the general gist of it correct - I will just say - iam sure of all I say,because indeed,Christ Himself - CLAIMED fully,to be PRESENT right at that first level,Source of ALL CREATION - He describes even,how and WHY it happens (something the releigons never tackle) - HE said all that I present here - and look,if anyone does know,then surely it is one who was there at the start,yes..?..if any at all,then such a one would know...


So it comes down really then - to an issue of do we TRUST what HE says..?...well look - His evidence - as said - He became quite renowned for doing miraculous magikal feats - and at that time and culture,this was quite common understood,accepted - and yet - for Him,these feats became so miraculous,simply because He "outmagiked" every body else - that is what it comes down to..He said a truth - then proved it by doing things no priest of this god could match - for this reason,they have Him killed - and for the same reasons the later religion will go on to hunt His truth and destroy it...The FEARED HIS POWER for they had none of their own - simple as that - I do these things He said,from my Father,true God.Lord and SOURCE OF ALL CREATION - you CANNOT do them He said,because your god is powerless,not a god,but a much lesser created being - an Angel that deceives you...Lets discuss it elsewhere if you wish..??..I look forward to it..
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:44 PM
Amilius777 Amilius777 is offline
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I think you may have something there. But I think that's more of a "fixated" state of Consciousnes that the temple priests and the religion became dominated by
It's called "Tribal consciousness". Majority of organized religions are stuck in this constricted dualistic mentality. Christianity at large is also stuck here.

It's an unfortunate and natural consequence of humanity having a dark past in tribalism. Many people evolve out of this mind set in their later years but some stay here. Many world religions came out of the tribal age which ranges between the time of many ancient empires to the time of the Englightenment during the 1800s.

Tribal people are extremely conversative. God is always Out There . They are usually for these people and against those. They marganlized the less fortunate. They believe in blood sacrifice or that they needed one. They think in dual terms. They buy into the illusion of THIS world of separation more than those at a naive infant consciousness. They also are part of Belonging Groups.

I would say that they don't reflect the image of the true face of God, they reflected an egotistical, self-centered, dualistic God or Energy that is dividing. The word for the "devil" or diablos is "to tear apart". The devil is the dualistic, lower, negative manifestation of Spirit that has a force and energy of its own or as long as people allow it to exist in the world and themselves. It all comes from Fear as you say. and they feared Jesus' power because he did one up every other healer and miracle person at that time. This energy of fear can be likened to an angel or a god in a sense that it is an expansive and collective consciousness. Jesus called this thing "Satan" or "the evil One". It's evil and one because all evil that comes from this mind-set is all the same no matter how small or big the sin. Fear/Self-centeredness.

So I do beleife this energy does take over people and especially religions and governments. Jesus was pointng out how his own people became subjected to such an influence. Negative karma on their part but Israel also had the positive karma to attract such an entity as Jesus to be born among their generation.

Seeing it from that perspective makes more sense to me. This separation Angel or god is the devil and it only exists if we allow fear instead of love to colorize our consciousness which affects our religious outlook, how we see others, treat others and ultimately ourselves
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