Antisocial people hidding behind their mask of sanity

[Randahl]

Originally Posted by arnicamontana

On the net i searched the topic and i've read that a forensic psychologist telling that a sociopath can successfully cheat at a psychological test to appear non sociopathic.

I can assure you this is true. If you have good people reading skills, no one is immune to being fooled. Not even trained professional or even other Ps.

[Randahl]

Originally Posted by arnicamontana

This is precisely what evil is, considering others as objects to be manipulated and hurted.

Fair enough, by that definition I'm certainly evil. However then you need an even stronger word for when someone goes out of their way and genuinely enjoy hurting others. The way I meant to say it was that the purpose of my actions are not to inflict pain on others, I just don't care about if that happens as a side effect. I would think that "evil" refers to when causing harm is the actual goal of an action. Don't you think there's a difference between killing an animal for food and killing because you enjoy watching it suffer?

[Randahl]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

If I may say so, a most pragmatic and insightful view. Psychology is always culturally based. Psychopathy is encouraged, let alone allowed in limited ways in our society particularly in corporate circles. Psychologists avoid involvememt with such things, throwing it off to organisational sociologists!

There's a case in the UK of an Indian company about to close factories that in total would affect the lives of about 50,000 people, some 4.000 directly who would be without jobs, without the means to feed their families or pay their mortgages. But there's the Board out in India in its ivory tower looking at balance sheets, umming and ahhhing and someone says "but we can't make a profit like that." Someone else: "So we might as well throw it to the wall." "Yes, let's" everyone agrees. They probably shrug at 50,000 people's lives under threat.

This is the same kind of thing higher up the hierarchy. It's happening all over. As you say, removed from the personal consequences of their actions.

...

Well said. Yes society has indeed created an environment where callousness and disregard for others is rewarded. I'm not for it. I sure wouldn't mind peaceful world where only good deeds were applauded. But that's not the world we live in unfortunately and I'm just playing a game that benefits me according to the current rules. But with the introduction of my beloved Twin into my life, the goal of this game has shifted DRASTICALLY! Money, career, sex are now insignificant in comparison.

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by Randahl

Because I've had that conversation a hundred times with people who are well read on the subject a hundred times. And unless you are a P yourself, and expert in the field, or have a deeper personal experience with it, there's really not any way I will make you understand by with mere text on a screen. Also this is a spiritual/TF forum, not a psychology forum.

Psychology is helpful for spiritual growth. And it is because many people have psychopaths in their entourage without knowing it that it's good to talk about this.

Originally Posted by Randahl

No I don't like the word, but in lack of a better one that people understand without me having to define a new term I resort to using "psychopath" even about myself. No my twin is not a P, but she has periods where she gets strong P traits, probably because of her connection with me. No, no one else I know apart from a couple of shrinks know. At least not that I've noticed.

Is there a difference between a sociopath and a psychopath ? Do your girlfriend know you're a P, and did you did things that made her suffer ? Do you really love her, care for her or is it just desire and passion ? I'm not going go into the story of Jodi Arias, Bertrand Canta, Oscar Pistorius, Pablo Picasso but ....
If she has periods where she gets strong P traits while she's not a P, i'm quite sure the relationship she has with you is probably detrimental to her psychological health. Do you know if she's an empath ? It's another topic but i've read that P often choose to date intelligent, kind, handsome, interesting, open hearted people.

Originally Posted by Randahl

So you mean I have no choice in what path I will take? Are you saying that the path I'll travel will be a dark one regardless of my choises and actions?

Everyone has a choice, and posses freewill. But no one can escape his or her karma. Every intention, thought, emotion, action, speech we had is recorded somewhere in the higher spiritual bodies and everyone must one day face what he or she created.

I agree with you : psychopathy isn't at all an illness but a consequence of choices someone has made in previous and in this life.

If you are really sincere you can choose to walk the light path. It's entirely up to you, humans can be fooled, but not God nor higher beings who guide your path and destiny.

Do you know the destiny of those who walk on the dark or negative path ? They will find themselves in a spiritual negative dimension entirely devoid of love where they are manipulated and subjugated by negatives entity who are more evolved. They will manipulate and subjugate the negative entity who are less spiritually evolved. It's not a very pleasant situation. That's why deep down psychopaths feel a strong anger and rage because they are being manipulated by higher negative entities who consider the P in the same way the P consider other human beings.

So you can always choose the light if you want. It's a personal decision, nobody can do it for you. But you must choose to sincerely care and love others as yourself.

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by Randahl

Fair enough, by that definition I'm certainly evil. However then you need an even stronger word for when someone goes out of their way and genuinely enjoy hurting others. The way I meant to say it was that the purpose of my actions are not to inflict pain on others, I just don't care about if that happens as a side effect. I would think that "evil" refers to when causing harm is the actual goal of an action. Don't you think there's a difference between killing an animal for food and killing because you enjoy watching it suffer?

Originally Posted by Randahl

.......I just don't care about if that happens as a side effect.

This is more related to Luciferic energies

Originally Posted by Randahl

.......to inflict pain on others

This is more related to Satanic energies.

[Randahl]

Originally Posted by arnicamontana

Psychology is helpful for spiritual growth. And it is because many people have psychopaths in their entourage without knowing it that it's good to talk about this.



Is there a difference between a sociopath and a psychopath ? Do your girlfriend know you're a P, and did you did things that made her suffer ? Do you really love her, care for her or is it just desire and passion ? I'm not going go into the story of Jodi Arias, Bertrand Canta, Oscar Pistorius, Pablo Picasso but ....
If she has periods where she gets strong P traits while she's not a P, i'm quite sure the relationship she has with you is probably detrimental to her psychological health. Do you know if she's an empath ? It's another topic but i've read that P often choose to date intelligent, kind, handsome, interesting, open hearted people.



Everyone has a choice, and posses freewill. But no one can escape his or her karma. Every intention, thought, emotion, action, speech we had is recorded somewhere in the higher spiritual bodies and everyone must one day face what he or she created.

I agree with you : psychopathy isn't at all an illness but a consequence of choices someone has made in previous and in this life.

If you are really sincere you can choose to walk the light path. It's entirely up to you, humans can be fooled, but not God nor higher beings who guide your path and destiny.

Do you know the destiny of those who walk on the dark or negative path ? They will find themselves in a spiritual negative dimension entirely devoid of love where they are manipulated and subjugated by negatives entity who are more evolved. They will manipulate and subjugate the negative entity who are less spiritually evolved. It's not a very pleasant situation. That's why deep down psychopaths feel a strong anger and rage because they are being manipulated by higher negative entities who consider the P in the same way the P consider other human beings.

So you can always choose the light if you want. It's a personal decision, nobody can do it for you. But you must choose to sincerely care and love others as yourself.

I wouldn't mind giving people advice on how to handle stressful situations with a P, or just simply give some clarity on past experiences to help get some kind of closure. But usually people who have had such experiences become very hateful when they know where I'm coming from and it becomes impossible to communicate. In fact, I see a lot more people spewing hate here than in forums specifically for Ps. A lot more. Let that sink in for a while. Empathy does not necessarily make people peaceful and loving. My favorite spiritual people are those who profess unconditional love to everyone and all, and then in the same breath proceed to call me names and and all the bad things they think of me.

As I said, I'm not going into specifics about the condition. Besides not even the experts are agreeing on what whether sociopaths and psychopaths are the same or not. There's plenty online to find. I don't mind answering specific questions from my own subjective perspective.

I rather think that the condition comes from what was done to me in past life, because I can remember it. Please don't blame it on me for past choices, because you are then blaming an innocent child who I feel very protective about.

My girlfriend and I are really having a twin connection. Our relation could not have anything but a constructive and positive effect on both of us. It's not just the crazy stalker love that most here seem to talk about. In a sense she is me and I would never do anything that's negative to her. I don't think I'll even ever get angry with her. Yeah, other girlfriends have been emotionally hurt by me. But that an entirely different kind of relationship, and I don't see any reason to compare them. The TF connection is something deeper than what you could have between a parent and child. She's extremely empathic and intelligent, but I didn't "choose to date her", we just happened to meet and I could not choose to NOT be her partner. It's not a choice to be hers anymore than it is a choice to wake up every morning and breathe air.

[Randahl]

Originally Posted by arnicamontana

This is more related to Luciferic energies




This is more related to Satanic energies.

Choronzon, but ok, close enough.
Anyway, your point being...?

Originally Posted by arnicamontana

Psychology is helpful for spiritual growth. And it is because many people have psychopaths in their entourage without knowing it that it's good to talk about this.

Excuse me interjecting but when has psychology been able to help with spirituality and/or spiritual growth; when has it been able to take an interest aside from the effects of observable behaviour, and in the most general sense? It's one subject they can't usefully deal with.

Point being that spirituality is unique to the individual and experiences defy description let alone measurement. Psychology is about generating stereotypes - the DSM - from collating symbols. A "patient" can't describe the quality of their experiences except in the grossest terms - "the sensation was pleasant" etc.

If a psychologist turned to studying the spiritual (in more than a statistical sense - deeply, I mean) she/he would become spiritual and psychology would cease to be relevant. To generate any kind of reference points they'd have to become spiritual themselves.

....

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Excuse me interjecting but when has psychology been able to help with spirituality and/or spiritual growth; when has it been able to take an interest aside from the effects of observable behaviour, and in the most general sense? It's one subject they can't usefully deal with.

Point being that spirituality is unique to the individual and experiences defy description let alone measurement. Psychology is about generating stereotypes - the DSM - from collating symbols. A "patient" can't describe the quality of their experiences except in the grossest terms - "the sensation was pleasant" etc.

If a psychologist turned to studying the spiritual (in more than a statistical sense - deeply, I mean) she/he would become spiritual and psychology would cease to be relevant. To generate any kind of reference points they'd have to become spiritual themselves.

....

I think we don't talk exactly about the same things when we use the term psychology. I was using it more in the sense of knowing deeply once's mind rather than putting people into boxes. Carl Jung for example was very spiritual, even mystical and yet he was a psychologist.
Humanistic, transpersonnal and perhaps positive psychology can be beneficial to spiritual growth.

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by Randahl

Choronzon, but ok, close enough.
Anyway, your point being...?

Originally Posted by Randahl

Granted that the P is not also a sadist (which unfortunately often is the case), the act of manipulation and casing emotional stress or even violence, is not with any evil intent. It's not personal. It's not coming from hate or a desire to torment. It's neutral. Like pealing an orange, putting up traps to kill pests, buying a piece of meat to cook. When you're not emotionally connected to anyone around you, hurting other humans is like you pulling up a fish with a hook; of course you know on an intellectual level that killing the fish (or any other animal you excuse yourself to eat) is the worst possible fate you could ever bring to that poor living creature, but you don't really care about that because it's not one you empathize with. Well, a P is not much different, we just add one more species (homo sapiens) to the list of animals that we use to improve our own lives. I knew I hurt people, but I never really thought about it beyond what I have to do in order to *appear* like a sweet and humble man, something which is EXTREMELY easy to do. Believe me, you all know Ps without having having a clue. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you could sense or detect that, because you don't (unless the P is very narcissistic/sadistic or of low intelligence).

My point is that manipulation and causing emotional stress intently is absolutely not neutral.