Trouble with silencing my mind while meditating...

[aloha]

Originally Posted by Gem

snip
You say you disagree, but you think I said things which I didn't say.

I'm not trying to pin you down brother, or defeat you in argument. Where we disagree is in the fine points in any case. I am happy to agree or disagree and am not trying to convince anyone of anything.

One makes assumptions in a medium which is all text. I am fairly firm on what I am talking about, but clearly I don't know you well. I try to guess at what you are thinking, and it is hit or miss. Sorry if I offended you. I don't mean to put words in your mouth. Perhaps I get ahead of myself.

Most of the people I have communicated with who show buddhist training are interested in buddhist theory as well.

If we communicate further, I will try to restrict myself to direct and unambiguous quotation.


aloha

[aloha]

Originally Posted by Ground

Of course faith is important for buddhists because they are believers and becoming attached to their beliefs and not deviate from them is essential for them. They are individuals seeking a home and trying to find this home in buddhist belief system. That is why if they experience something that does not comply with their beliefs they often become upset and/or seek to escape from the situation.

Therefore I have written:


Occasionally buddhists can achieve unstable equanimity but only in a buddhist setting e.g. when they are together with other buddhists and where they can comfirm each others buddhist believes and feel safe or when they separate from 'the world outside'. But as soon as they face a non-buddhist environment they may again lose this unstable equanimity.

Please be aware that this form section is not a specifically buddhist section, it is about meditation in general, i.e. meditation in the context of all systems of beliefs or non-beliefs. So if you argue from within your buddhist belief system 'the budddha said ...' and the like then this may be an invalid argument for many users here who are not buddhists.

aloha, brother ground,

You know I, tried to join a specifically buddhist meditation discussion group, and after an hour of trying to pick out a name and password, I couldn't manage to do the little visual test to verify my humanity in the five tries they gave me (I'm a little color blind). I managed to join this one, and it was such a hassle I hope I am not unwelcome here.

My current orientation is buddhist, but I am familiar (and conversant) with virtually every wisdom tradition, east and west. I am more concerned with practice than theory, at this point in my life.

Ajahn chah has a simile in his book of similes, in which he likens a person who never thinks of death to a person who has gone to a party and knows that at some point they will have to use the toilet, but has made no effort to find out where the facilities are and their condition.

As for beliefs, everyone believes in all sorts of things, mostly unconsciously. Most people are materialists regardless of what they want to believe or think they believe. Uprooting social conditioning, eliminating bad faith and confusing, conflicting ideas; this is the value of believing in liberation. We choose a single belief in order to master the morass of beliefs which come and go. Ultimately, even that single belief is given up to dwell in pure reality, unmixed by ideas and concepts of any sort whatever.

As for all that about buddhist and non-buddhist environments, I concern myself with an environment conducive to meditation. So, here I am. Hi.


aloha

[Joyce]

Originally Posted by aloha

I concern myself with an environment conducive to meditation. So, here I am. Hi. aloha

How long you been in Hawaii bra? You sound haole with a touch of arrogance. One should be able to meditate anywhere.
It is not contingent on the surroundings.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by aloha

I'm not trying to pin you down brother, or defeat you in argument. Where we disagree is in the fine points in any case. I am happy to agree or disagree and am not trying to convince anyone of anything.

Seems to me you say you disagree with things I never said.

One makes assumptions in a medium which is all text. I am fairly firm on what I am talking about, but clearly I don't know you well. I try to guess at what you are thinking, and it is hit or miss. Sorry if I offended you. I don't mean to put words in your mouth. Perhaps I get ahead of myself.

Most of the people I have communicated with who show buddhist training are interested in buddhist theory as well.

Yep philosophy and practice goes together.

If we communicate further, I will try to restrict myself to direct and unambiguous quotation.


aloha

[Gem]

Originally Posted by aloha

Your statements here are far from buddhist orthodoxy, brother. Of course, in buddhism orthodoxy is one of the five fetters. You may recall, the buddha named his only son "Fetter."

I'm sure what I say is within Buddhist philosophical tenets, but of course some schools refute other schools and they have various traditioal orthodoxies.

Perhaps you draw un unstated distinction between "psycho-emotional healing" and spiritual healing. Healing is one of the primary metaphors for buddhist practice; "salvation" is the goal. This goal is not merely to "keep on an even keel," either. We want to sail the boat, however the keel, to the other shore. The goal is complete freedom, the buddhahood of the lion's roar.

Indeed I make no distinction between psycholgolical/emotional healing ad spiritual healing. Yep, liberation is the goal.

I don't think we are sick, necessarily, just because we are not yet enlightened. I think we mature into buddhas, as the fruit of a process of development. Enlightenment, being beyond time, may be said to be instantaneous... but it can seem to be a long time coming. Sometimes it flickers... sometimes it is right here now, but unavailable to 'ordinary consciousness.'

It is here right now because you are here right now - but the 'purification', as I call it, is more like a timely process.

"Those who speak do not know; those who know do not speak." This means that ordinary verbal consciousness, the kind that may be communicated between or among being(s), cannot experience enlightenment, which is non-dualistic.

We come to buddhism humbly, seeking healing, and we find so much more, liberation. We seek to save our lives, and instead lose them.


aloha

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Soul_Surfer

Hi, I meditate, with like a year break, for about 4 years. I try to focus on a mantra, but the mind uses every opportunity to disturb the silence in between the chanted mantras(i say them mentally actually). Sometimes it seems like I can sense the silence underlying the whole area of my mind, but can't quite get there. Any ideas how could I improve my practice? All help will be greatly apprieciated.

Hi Soul Surfer,

If you are doing mantra meditation the goal is not to reside in the silence it is to repeat the mantra.

Here is an example of a mantra instruction.

Once you have gotten comfortable, slowly close your eyes. You will notice thoughts, streams of thoughts. That is fine. Just observe them without minding them. After about a minute, gently introduce the thought ...I AM... and begin to repeat it easily and effortlessly in your mind. If your mind wanders off into other thoughts, you will eventually realize this has happened. Don't be concerned about it. It is natural. When you realize you are not repeating the mantra, gently go back to it. This is all you have to do. Easily repeat the mantra silently inside. When you realize you are not thinking it, then easily come back to it. The goal is not to stay on it. The goal is to follow the simple procedure of thinking the mantra, losing it, and coming back to it when you find you have lost it. Do not resist if the mantra tends to become less distinct. Thinking the mantra does not have to be with clear pronunciation. I AM can be experienced at many levels in your mind and nervous system. When you come back to it, come back to a level that is comfortable, not straining for either a clear or fuzzy pronunciation.

Your update is a good sign.

Originally Posted by Soul_Surfer

So a little update...today when I was meditating (while saying mantra in my mind) for a brief moment I lost a sense of where I was (and I haven't fall asleep). I don't know how else to call it, when I came back to my senses I had to remind myself I'm still in my room. It's a first time ever something like that happened to me. So I guess there is some progress in my practice after all. Apparently patience is the key ;D

What is happening is you are going deeper than your consciousness can maintain so you just kind of pass out but in a unique way just like you just described.

It is a good sign of making progress

All the best.

[aloha]

Originally Posted by Joyce

How long you been in Hawaii bra? You sound haole with a touch of arrogance.
One should be able to meditate anywhere. It is not contingent on the surroundings.

lemme, see... two years on oahu, two years on kauai, and the last twenty-seven on the big island...
thanks so much for your touching personal criticism... in a few seconds you can render judgment...it took me a few hours to post my messages...
no need to reply, cuz...

aloha 'oe