Insight meditation and the Satipatthana sutta

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I am no fool.

Keep going, it may serve you not to give up again.

When I read this, I feel .. I feel that there is a great deal of sincerity, sincerity that is so strong that it can lift mountains and elevate oceans, it's mindblowing, it's riveting, it's the most amazing show to parallel the universe's creation. I'm getting a few words - they are "wow wow wow"



Be well, naturesflow and mind those feelings, eh?

BT

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I am no fool.

Keep going, it may serve you not to give up again.

I didn't say you were a fool.
I said don't be fooled. There is a difference.

exactly what do you feel I have given up before?

With Love
Eelco

[Gem]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

No Thank you.
If you want to go that route I guess I'd say that I feel that we don't resonate in that way.
If I feel into gem's or your words I get a sense of insincerity.

Now that's ok because that's just a feeling and I don't trust those any more than I would trust the thoughts my mind conjures up continuously.

That said, what I feel is just feeling an unpleasant feeling. My mind turns it into the concept of insincerity.

If we are going to be accurate about it. Do you see haw that works?

I think what you 2 are doing is dangerous and in the end will leave both of you disillusioned and raw. But by all means feel your way into all the posts and words and draw experiential conclusions about it. As you keep reminding everyone. Your all grown up and experienced so why exchange experiences and talk about why we perceive things different.

With Love
Eelco

I think it's best if speak personally on a person (or 2), complimentary speech is for the best. It can't be good for Gem's feelings, or anyone elses, to be named insincere, dangerous, disillusioned and so forth. Even those reading the post in passing will be 'aroused' by these little negativities, and like a small spark put to dry grass, it so quickly gets out of control.

I also need to clarify, I have affection for NF, but we aren't together in any way, and there is no 'you two' going on. I mention this because I had sensed quite a while ago than division was being created beteen participants here, and that might result in becoming 2 sides. We have to avoid such division. Making a 'you 2' divides NF and I, as one group or pairing, from the 'us', which is precisely divisive, and it's not a true thing.

Lastly. I don't want to be the subject of discussion. Its not acceptable to me, and this is a boundary I wish to make perfectly clear. No one wants to be the subject of others' gossip, especially in association with the sorts of terms you use, so it should be quite easy to empathise with this.

I hope this sounds sensible, and you can be sure, I am entirely sincere in this I say.

[blossomingtree]

PS:

Originally Posted by naturesflow:

In the moral of the tale is, the meditation and the enlightenment is not you as you strive to be, but the truth of yourself as you are now. Hence insight meditation is not a means to an end. It is not practiced in desire for a reward. It is wholly with the truth of the experienced reality 'as it is'. Not 'as you want it to be'.

This sounds like a nice poster message, but it's not really in line with Buddhism .. so I guess it is relevant here.

BT

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

When I read this, I feel .. I feel that there is a great deal of sincerity, sincerity that is so strong that it can lift mountains and elevate oceans, it's mindblowing, it's riveting, it's the most amazing show to parallel the universe's creation. I'm getting a few words - they are "wow wow wow"

Yes, this thread is most suitable for you.



Be well, naturesflow and mind those feelings, eh?

BT

I am seeing you more clearly now. It's good to see.


I have this to offer in my observations of your offering.

Did you walk with catsquoti through his almost moment of leaving? Was it you that walked through that moment to understand deeper the nature of someone giving up in the face of the situation he faced? Did you get a sense and feel of their underlying reactions to notice them more in the midst of that moment. How they felt and what has transpired since? . Sometimes those that give up sometimes just need reminding its ok not too and keep on going,regardless of what they offer and say. How I do that is my way of understanding deeper the points of control in the mind that I know very well of myself. You may not see this as a supportive point of course, because in not understanding the bigger picture of another person, where your only listening to yourself, not them, it would be difficult.

I am not a fool now, but I have been in the past. Very foolish and blind to myself. But I have compassion and awareness of those stronger holding points that only a self aware person would understand through the whole picture of such things. I do listen deeply because I learned to listen deeper in myself, so I listen deeply for others, sometimes to support them in their time of need and sometimes to show them they have to dig deep themselves sometimes. Not give up, keep on going. How I do that in my truth and listening might appear a little harsh or insincere, but really I just trust myself and flow as nature does, where it needs to go. All the while knowing I am compassionate, aware and sincere as best as I can be as I am. I do my best. And if I am not doing my best I try to improve on myself as things arise to know more.

Is that insincere? Perhaps in having the bigger picture it might show you that I have learned even in Buddhist practices, sometimes tough love and tough moments are our greatest teachers. That's if you grab them as so. :)

I am not offended by your offering. I just wanted to explain why I went there again. Sometimes tough love, can make you dig deeper, I learned that as well, it helped me not to give up and keep on sharing and being myself.

Of course dropping the games with self helps immensely. And being more self reflective does support this.

Originally Posted by Gem

I also need to clarify, I have affection for NF, but we aren't together in any way, and there is no 'you two' going on. I mention this because I had sensed quite a while ago than division was being created betwwn participants here, and that might result in 2 sides. We have to avoid such division. Making a 'you 2' divides NF and I from the 'us', which is precisely divisive, and it's not a true thing.

Lastly. I don't want to be the subject of discussion, its not acceptable to me, and this is a boundary I wish to make perfectly clear. No one wants to be the subject of others' gossip, especially in association with the sorts of terms you use, so it's very easy to empathise with this.

I hope this sounds sensible, and you can be sure, I am entirely sincere in this I say.

Well being on a somewhat open forum you really shouldn't be surprised if people think about what you say and how you say it. So far the only division I see is the one you created in post nr 2 of this very thread.

I never felt you and NF were together. What I meant by you 2 is that both seem to feel into things and then trust whatever story your minds makes from those feelings. Trusting those stories as "truth" is what's dangerous to me.

Then by acting on your perceived truth you make any kind of discussion about that impossible by hiding behind a poor me facade and use the authority of this forum to go tell and let them restrict the free speech of others calling you out on your **.

But don't worry this will be my last post in reply to anything you say.
You're in my ignore box.
So please keep on keeping on Oh feeler of deeply felt certainties and knower of experientally knowledgeable things.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

I didn't say you were a fool.
I said don't be fooled. There is a difference.

exactly what do you feel I have given up before?

With Love
Eelco

Your were going to give up and leave this forum after your issue last week.
Remember, I walked with you through that.

I got a real sense of you through that walk, because I listen deeply.

So today in your giving up on this thread, I notice it arise again. But why take off, why not change the way you are noticing and looking, feeling and shift yourself, like your doing right now in this moment.

:)

My response as not being a fool was only to say, I cant be fooled if I am not one. :)

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

Well being on a somewhat open forum you really shouldn't be surprised if people think about what you say and how you say it. So far the only division I see is the one you created in post nr 2 of this very thread.

I never felt you and NF were together. What I meant by you 2 is that both seem to feel into things and then trust whatever story your minds makes from those feelings. Trusting those stories as "truth" is what's dangerous to me.

Then by acting on your perceived truth you make any kind of discussion about that impossible by hiding behind a poor me facade and use the authority of this forum to go tell and let them restrict the free speech of others calling you out on your **.

But don't worry this will be my last post in reply to anything you say.
You're in my ignore box.
So please keep on keeping on

This speaking is the mind with unresolved emotional reactions.

But I don't have to ridicule your mind because I understand how this works as my own when I would speak this way. And as predominate feeler I understand emotions very well.

Your still hurting, but its coming out as anger, I am observing.

I use to fight to the bitter end when I was reported. My god did I act out. But then I learned all my subtle reactions and how that fitted into my mind not still and calm, emotions boiling over..all that jazz.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I do my best.

And that is the best any of us can do NF Be well within yourself and may your true heart bloom for the benefit of all beings.

BT

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

And that is the best any of us can do NF Be well within yourself and may your true heart bloom for the benefit of all beings.

BT

It already is blossoming. True to my word I am. True to my own heart. The benefits are only noticed as the one noticing can notice. I notice this.

I thought you were leaving?