Truth and Reality

Originally Posted by Xan

Understanding and learning from meditation comes after the meditation state, in returning to ordinary human awareness through the physical senses and the interpreting mind.

In silent meditation we experience the nature of reality, and ourselves... without thought.


Xan

Hi Xan,

careful now thats quite a bold claim to make.

so you wouldnt say you believe you experience the nature of reality, and ourselves... without thought?? but you do actually experience it?

perhaps you can explain how you know what you experience is the true nature of reality and yourself - without belief?

[Xan]

Yes, I experience silent unboundaried existence.

It is empty of thought, sensation and emotion but is not a void. In that ultimate reality there is a subtle sense of presence... formless empty awareness.

I know it as the essence of reality because in it there is no-thing... no forms of any kind, although all forms arise from it.

One can only discover this through direct intimate experience,
when one investigates for themselves... through deep meditation
or by tracing a thought down through all the layers of "where does this thought arise from".

Or sometimes it shows up in someone spontaneously.
What a surprise!


Xan

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by The Eagle

i smell a belief in there!

a human no longer plagued by the human condition?? - not plagued by seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or thinking? sounds kinda boring!

however, indeed a belief that what you experience is reality offers good advantages.

No, that is not what I mean about the human condition. I can see how it could have been misunderstood that way though. Being human is glorious indeed.
The human condition is something else. It represents the way we think and why we think that way. It prevents us from seeing reality because it doesn't want to see that life is something other than what we fantasize it to be.

Originally Posted by The Eagle

you are personifying truth. truth doesnt attempt to explain anything. truth is truth.

i am not saying beliefs change truth or reality - as i am trying to avoid a quantumn physics discussion. lol.

There would be no discussion if we did not have any beliefs....alone that we are discussing anything is based on the belief that that is possibly LOL

Originally Posted by Xan

Yes, I experience silent unboundaried existence.

It is empty of thought, sensation and emotion but is not a void. In that ultimate reality there is a subtle sense of presence... formless empty awareness.

I know it as the essence of reality because in it there is no-thing... no forms of any kind, although all forms arise from it.

One can only discover this through direct intimate experience,
when one investigates for themselves... through deep meditation
or by tracing a thought down through all the layers of "where does this thought arise from".

Or sometimes it shows up in someone spontaneously.
What a surprise!


Xan

it doesnt explain how you know there is "no thing" though.

also without a mind working to think that there is "no thing" -

you see if you start to think there is "no thing" - then you are pushing your conciousness into that direction. focusing the mind in order to get your basic belief into that way of thinking. once stripped back to the one thought of there is no thing - then you can "rebuild" the universe in your mind.

again i believe it to be a usefull tool and i do greatly respect it as it brings contentment with all things.

is it truth and is it reality - i would still say it is a belief - accepted as truth in order to achieve what you want to achieve from it. now obviously if you considered it a belief you wouldnt be able to get to that mental point where you need to be in meditation so it ruins the whole excercise.

i do not know what spritual practices/religion etc you follow perhaps a new thread for this topic somewhere but i have always been interested in people that follow a meditation path but wont let go of an attachment to a belief in truth.

this is not an attack on you or comment on your beliefs - it truly does intrigue me.

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

No, that is not what I mean about the human condition. I can see how it could have been misunderstood that way though. Being human is glorious indeed.
The human condition is something else. It represents the way we think and why we think that way. It prevents us from seeing reality because it doesn't want to see that life is something other than what we fantasize it to be.

well i believe the way we think is based on the elements i mentioned that leads to all views. so when i consider that then all views on reality are based on that - then all are valid - whether they are contradictive or not.

if reality does exist (belief either way) and we can experience it (belief either way) - then then due to the elements mentioned we can only have a perspective of reality.

now whether our perspective of reality actually represents reality in any shape or form - is a belief either way. lol.

Originally Posted by Shabby

There would be no discussion if we did not have any beliefs....alone that we are discussing anything is based on the belief that that is possibly LOL

lol

hmmm... if we accept a believe of truth existing - then are all things possible? or does truth restrict possibilities?

Originally Posted by The Eagle

lol

hmmm... if we accept a believe of truth existing - then are all things possible? or does truth restrict possibilities?

That's a good question Eagle. I believe that yes the Truth is limited to possibilities. All possibilities is great if one can accept the good with the bad, beyond duality is Truth and Reality, which I refer to as Spirit and being perfect.

Originally Posted by Shabby

That's a good question Eagle. I believe that yes the Truth is limited to possibilities. All possibilities is great if one can accept the good with the bad, beyond duality is Truth and Reality, which I refer to as Spirit and being perfect.

i dont believe (lol) that is quite right though.

to accept a belief in truth limits it to one and one only "possibility". it does away with possibility all together. but then a belief comes into play - a belief in truth doesnt have the exactness as defined by truth i suppose.

spirit is just the non-physical part of a person. i.e. thoughts and beliefs - whether that represents truth or perfection i guess is a belief.

Originally Posted by The Eagle

i dont believe (lol) that is quite right though.

to accept a belief in truth limits it to one and one only "possibility". it does away with possibility all together. but then a belief comes into play - a belief in truth doesnt have the exactness as defined by truth i suppose.

spirit is just the non-physical part of a person. i.e. thoughts and beliefs - whether that represents truth or perfection i guess is a belief.

You say you don't believe but everything you state is a belief :P