Another one bites the dust!!!

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Altair

We don't have bovine intestines but we don't have big, sharp claws either. What matters is that we need a range of nutrients for good health, and we can get it from different sources, but it doesn't say anything about ''design''. Humans can get their protein from other sources so nobody is 'meant' to be anything. Eliminating or reducing meat consumption is about ethics and environment..

If you care about nature though you may consider reducing your meat consumption since the way we do animal farming these days is an environmental disaster. It demands most of the land we use and nature we destroy and continues to do! Reducing the topic to ''..We're meant to eat meat..'' is an appeal to nature fallacy. Careful with that cause people use the same line of reasoning in favour of a whole range of questionable beliefs..

I care very much about nature because I live deep in it. I live within the laws of nature every single day. I am not the typical person who's simply visits nature from time to time. But that's a different topic. Honestly I don't care what an other person eats I am to busy working on improving my life around me and putting things right.
The biggest problem is people don't know where there food really comes from. Even if you eat strictly organically grown foods. I live in a state where fresh veggies are non existent 7mo. Of the year. The environment won't allow it. So veggies have to be shipped in from often different countries. That itself leaves a huge carbon footprint. Ok let's talk about organically grown. It's better than useing chemicals but it's not perfect. Let's mention the vegetable farming practices as well. Have you done research on how these practices are done? Organic doesn't mean well treatment of the workers. Even in the u.s. large vegetable farm contribute to human trafficking. Probably more than any other reason. God only knows what happens in other countries where my fresh veggies in winter. Ok a lot of vegetables come from California. Most of this state is to dry to produce vegetables unless the fields are watered. In a state that often gets striken with drought heavily watering fields has a very negative affect on nature. So buying a steak from my local grocery store doesn't really compare. The cattle came from a short distance all year round. Do you really know how strict the environmental regulation's are for the farmers on beef and dairy, there very strict in this state. Since dealing with dairy and beef needs a lot less, if it even exist the people needed for near slave labor conditions. If anyone really cares about the treatment of people and nature should really consider sourcing everything they consume. Like they do with coffee. And also buy as local as possible. Just had another thought on the carbon footprint created buy food. Ok I love to look at food labels where food comes from. A lot of the peanut butter I eat comes from Canada. Most people would be like ok no big deal. But they don't grow peanuts in Canada the growing season is way to short there to grow them. Peanuts are grown in the south eastern u.s. shipped to Canada, made into peanut butter and shipped back. That's a big carbon footprint just for peanut butter. Here's another crazy one. Fish caught in Scotland are shipped to China to be processed then shipped back to Scotland. Reason for this it's cheaper to prossess these foods somewhere else then it is to prossess them on site. That makes a massive carbon footprint.

[Altair]

I'm sorry Hallow but you can't compare meat with fresh veggies, when the latter isn't a substitute for the former. It's not like anyone would suggest to stop eating meat and just eat more greens. That would make no sense

Beans can be seen as a substitute though, and beans are a bulk good. They can be shipped in large quantities and have a long expiry date, so pound for pound they have a lower ecological footprint than the meat people buy. These animals will require more space, for themselves and for the fields used to grow crops for them. You may think of a local farmer with a small herd of cows. Organic animal farming can be beneficial in some places, but these are niches. This is about the larger picture of which most people are necessarily a part of due to how our modern economy functions..

The fishing industries are even less trustworthy and are an ecological disaster..
People buy fish for themselves and their cat but it comes at the cost of dolphins and other animals that live in the ocean..

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Altair

I'm sorry Hallow but you can't compare meat with fresh veggies, when the latter isn't a substitute for the former. It's not like anyone would suggest to stop eating meat and just eat more greens. That would make no sense

Beans can be seen as a substitute though, and beans are a bulk good. They can be shipped in large quantities and have a long expiry date, so pound for pound they have a lower ecological footprint than the meat people buy. These animals will require more space, for themselves and for the fields used to grow crops for them. You may come up with a local farmer with a small herd of cows, but this is about the larger picture of which most people are necessarily a part of due to how our modern economy functions..

The fishing industries are even less trustworthy and are an ecological disaster..
People buy fish for themselves and their cat but it comes at the cost of dolphins and other animals that live in the ocean..

what I was trying to say is neither industry is perfect. Most large scale of any kind are all about the money. Organic is a good option. Just 10 years ago I never saw anything organic. People started wanting organic and started paying for it. So farmers discovered they can make money for doing it. Another positive example is what sorceing did to the coffee industry. People wanted to know where and how there food products got to them. If we really want to change things and help both mankind and nature, it can be done. I know the point your trying to make and respect it. I just get all weird when people start talking about helping out nature. It's so much more than simply eating less meat. One day and one dollar at a time we can actually do some good. I think today I am going to Walmart and buy some wild flower seeds and toss them in a ditch. The seeds will grow, bloom, and be a little help to the plant growing work horse. The pollinator insects. next time you're buying any kind of food ask yourself, what resources and energy did it take for this to get into my hands and think about how much you really want to help the earth then make your decision.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by hallow

what I was trying to say is neither industry is perfect. Most large scale of any kind are all about the money. Organic is a good option. Just 10 years ago I never saw anything organic. People started wanting organic and started paying for it. So farmers discovered they can make money for doing it. Another positive example is what sorceing did to the coffee industry. People wanted to know where and how there food products got to them. If we really want to change things and help both mankind and nature, it can be done. I know the point your trying to make and respect it. I just get all weird when people start talking about helping out nature. It's so much more than simply eating less meat. One day and one dollar at a time we can actually do some good. I think today I am going to Walmart and buy some wild flower seeds and toss them in a ditch. The seeds will grow, bloom, and be a little help to the plant growing work horse. The pollinator insects.

I can agree with much of what you said..

[Petey]

Originally Posted by inavalan

How much should we believe of what we read and see on the internet? Not much.

Schools should teach common sense! But who's to teach that?

There are still a few of us around.

[Debrah]

'Another one bites the dust', compared to how many every year who are recognizing the inherent violence in a meat inclusive diet?

2006 - 150,000 vegans in UK
2016 - 540,000 vegans in UK https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44488051

2018 - 2.25 million vegans in Australia.
https://www.theherald.com.au/story/5...ove-their-veg/

2018 - 7.1 million vegans in USA

2018 - 835,000 vegans in Canada

2018 - 1.8 million vegans in Germany

2018 - 5 million vegans in Japan

2018 - 2.6 million in Poland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country

[JosephineB]

I agree, I think the thread title is inflammatory and gloating.

OP, I think the way you go about sourcing your meat is the best way possible but most people don't have this option. So I don't blame them for not wanting to eat meat from factory farm conditions. Can you honestly blame them?

[Lucky 1]

Originally Posted by Debrah

'Another one bites the dust', compared to how many every year who are recognizing the inherent violence in a meat inclusive diet?

2006 - 150,000 vegans in UK
2016 - 540,000 vegans in UK https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44488051

2018 - 2.25 million vegans in Australia.
https://www.theherald.com.au/story/5...ove-their-veg/

2018 - 7.1 million vegans in USA

2018 - 835,000 vegans in Canada

2018 - 1.8 million vegans in Germany

2018 - 5 million vegans in Japan

2018 - 2.6 million in Poland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country

Sure....and some very diligent research shows that 84% of these people who go vegan or vegetarian give it up as unsustainable and go back to consuming animal proteins which fits with what the University of Texas Health Science center has published.

Qoute: Michael Houston PHD, Professor Emeritus of the University of Texas Health Science center concerning veganism ....... "Perhaps 10 to 15 percent of the world wide human population have a metabolism that can be successful being completely free of animal products in there diet"

So that 84% rate of failure tracks pretty darn closely with the professors statement.

And Debrah.....if those 15% who can stay healthy on a vegan diet are happy with it....I'm happy for them! But it just doesn't work for the majority of the world population.

[Lucky 1]

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

I agree, I think the thread title is inflammatory and gloating.

OP, I think the way you go about sourcing your meat is the best way possible but most people don't have this option. So I don't blame them for not wanting to eat meat from factory farm conditions. Can you honestly blame them?

Gloating??? Really??? How about simply pointing out the hypocrisy of these people!

Sorry you're not enjoying the conversation....and no....I don''t blame anyone who knows better for not wanting to consume commercial meat......

[JosephineB]

Originally Posted by Lucky 1

Gloating??? Really??? How about simply pointing out the hypocrisy of these people!

Sorry you're not enjoying the conversation....and no....I don''t blame anyone who knows better for not wanting to consume commercial meat......

So these people that you can understand that would prefer not to eat commercial meat. What do you suggest they do? I noticed you suggested on another thread "go out and shoot your own" or something like that. Most people don't have the means to be able to do this. Living in the inner city in a highrise flat/apartment with no transport for starters. I suppose a trip to the local park to shoot a squirrel or a duck on the pond might be an option But joking aside. It's just not feasible for most. You're in a fortunate position Lucky, which I'm sure you realise, as per your username.