Pantheism.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Interesting if subtle distinctions. I can't help thinking as I read that, "oh what a tangled web we weave" even when we are not trying to deceive. There are many different paradoxes out there that claim one solution or another that theologians will argue back and forth about. Sometimes, and I think this is one such time, I believe I prefer the magicians over the logicians. I will leave some things in the mystery for now. These arguments seem to have a way of focusing on the minor nuances of the bark on the trees and loosing sight of the forest. I am sure Aristotle was a great thinker, but perhaps sometimes he thinks too much.
Anyway, panentheism, pantheism, I am still the duly elected Pope of it all!

Point well taken (IMO), ketz.

Wasn't intending to argue or spark and argument, at least not for the 'sake' of 'argument'. Just wanted to stimulate possible further 'expansion' of appreciation/awareness pertaining to the idea of 'theism' in general and 'pantheism' in particular.

I appreciate and endorse the jocularity of your 'divine' Pope-ishness. Helps keeps the whole shebang from becoming popularity-contest Grand Pooh-Bah ruled/ridden, I think.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Point well taken (IMO), ketz.

Wasn't intending to argue or spark and argument, at least not for the 'sake' of 'argument'. Just wanted to stimulate possible further 'expansion' of appreciation/awareness pertaining to the idea of 'theism' in general and 'pantheism' in particular.

I appreciate and endorse the jocularity of your 'divine' Pope-ishness. Helps keeps the whole shebang from becoming popularity-contest Grand Pooh-Bah ruled/ridden, I think.

No argument here, like I said, on some issues I just like to punt the ball back into the mystery.... for now anyway. Sounds like theologians have been arguing this one plenty already.

BTW, if you did want to argue with me, I could just end it by issuing one of Pantheistic Papal Bulls, and that becomes the final word..... kinda liking this being the Pope of Pantheism thing.
Play nice and there could be a Sainthood in this for ya.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by ketzer

No argument here, like I said, on some issues I just like to punt the ball back into the mystery.... for now anyway. Sounds like theologians have been arguing this one plenty already.

BTW, if you did want to argue with me, I could just end it by issuing one of Pantheistic Papal Bulls, and that becomes the final word..... kinda liking this being the Pope of Pantheism thing.
Play nice and there could be a Sainthood in this for ya.

The FULL-TRUTH 'nature' of our 'Reality' is probably (undoubtedly, IMO) beyond any 'individual' soul's comprehension, but there's no 'mystery' pertaining to the ideas being juxtaposed here, ketx.

'Panentheism' (all are 'in' 'God') preserves the idea that we are all 'organic' parts, or part expressions, of ONE Living Being, whereas 'pantheism' just advances the idea that we are all 'gods' in our own right, who at best may accordantly 'amalgamate' in the Flow we (you and I) know as Life - theoretically being able to go our own way if we so wish-n-choose.

The two ideas have significantly different implications! (IMO).

Which 'Bull' (if either ) you gonna get on, Pope K?

Originally Posted by davidsun

The FULL-TRUTH 'nature' of our 'Reality' is probably (undoubtedly, IMO) beyond any 'individual' soul's comprehension, but there's no 'mystery' pertaining to the ideas being juxtaposed here, ketx.

'Panentheism' (all are 'in' 'God') preserves the idea that we are all 'organic' parts, or part expressions, of ONE Living Being, whereas 'pantheism' just advances the idea that we are all 'gods' in our own right, who at best may accordantly 'amalgamate' in the Flow we (you and I) know as Life - theoretically being able to go our own way if we so wish-n-choose.

The two ideas have significantly different implications! (IMO).

Which 'Bull' (if either ) you gonna get on, Pope K?

Yes, I get the differing definitions, but then there are all those points and counter points and how can God be God if he doesn't know this or that. It starts to sound to me like arguing over how many angles can dance on the head of a pin. Sport if you are into it, but at present, I will let them push the ball back and forth on the field and ...... IDK, go fishing or birding.

As far as my Papel Position goes, I will wait to see who wins the war and then issue some.... I mean my, Bull.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Yes, I get the differing definitions, but then there are all those points and counter points and how can God be God if he doesn't know this or that. It starts to sound to me like arguing over how many angles can dance on the head of a pin. Sport if you are into it, but at present, I will let them push the ball back and forth on the field and ...... IDK, go fishing or birding.

As far as my Papel Position goes, I will wait to see who wins the war and then issue some.... I mean my, Bull.

Just so you know, I have finished making the point(s) I wish to make in relation to the OP 'topic' of this thread. Peeps, including you, can "take 'em" and contemplate their implications or "leave 'em." Of course, these need to be taken in the context of what I have shared (elsewhere) about my 'view' of 'God'.

No war to be 'won' here as far as 'I' am concerned - the truth has been stated (to my satisfaction).

You gonna play Pope ... or not -in which Go Fish for another 'card')?

Originally Posted by davidsun

Just so you know, I have finished making the point(s) I wish to make in relation to the OP 'topic' of this thread. Peeps, including you, can "take 'em" and contemplate their implications or "leave 'em." Of course, these need to be taken in the context of what I have shared (elsewhere) about my 'view' of 'God'.

No war to be 'won' here as far as 'I' am concerned - the truth has been stated (to my satisfaction).

You gonna play Pope ... or not -in which Go Fish for another 'card')?

It would not be fair for me to play go fish with you as someone has stacked my deck of cards with all jokers. With my picture in my pantheistic papal hat on the front of the deck, it is hard to tell which side is the front and which is he back.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by ketzer

It would not be fair for me to play go fish with you as someone has stacked my deck of cards with all jokers. With my picture in my pantheistic papal hat on the front of the deck, it is hard to tell which side is the front and which is he back.

Just 'prodding' (challenging?) you to 'come out' by taking/articulating a clear position in relation to the OP (as I have, at least by implication, done), friend. Not if you don't have one, of course p but your 'Pope'al references were insinuating something ... albeit I don't know what.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Just 'prodding' (challenging?) you to 'come out' by taking/articulating a clear position in relation to the OP (as I have, at least by implication, done), friend. Not if you don't have one, of course p but your 'Pope'al references were insinuating something ... albeit I don't know what.

Well now, according to the well known and pantheisticaly accepted doctrine of papal infallibility, whatever position we take will be the correct one. However, if you make clear your request for guidance the Holy See may see fit to issue a papal encyclical on the matter. Are you requesting to know whether pantheism or panentheism is the true nature of God?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Well now, according to the well known and pantheisticaly accepted doctrine of papal infallibility, whatever position we take will be the correct one. However, if you make clear your request for guidance the Holy See may see fit to issue a papal encyclical on the matter. Are you requesting to know whether pantheism or panentheism is the true nature of God?

No. I already think/know that! I am goading you to 'come out' of 'the closet' and appropriately (IMO) 'take stage' yourself in said (and, by extension, other) regards. Bro-Ketz!

Originally Posted by davidsun

No. I already think/know that! I am goading you to 'come out' of 'the closet' and appropriately (IMO) 'take stage' yourself in said (and, by extension, other) regards. Bro-Ketz!

Thou shall not temp the Lord thy God, and by extension is holy representative on earth.