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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > General Religion

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  #11  
Old 08-03-2020, 01:35 PM
Elfin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
The story is a Metaphor Elfin, not to be taken literally
Your Grandsons safe.....
Thank you... I know he is because there is no way I could ever do that... To prove my worth to anyone. If my way/ beliefs are not enough... Tough!!! But I know full well that I'm worthy... ( Without any slaying) because of the things I've been shown. Abraham ... Whether true or just a story to prove a point is braver than I ...but good heavens!!
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2020, 01:41 PM
Elfin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
The part of the original post that had the most impact on me was the idea that Abraham could be considered "brave" for being ready to do that killing. Even metaphorically speaking ... That was nothing to aspire for. Humanity's history, including the present, is full of abominable deeds committed from blind faith. That can't be "the" way.

Anyway, my advice is not to follow, nor believe those who tell you what to do, or what to think, but those who teach you how to learn to make your own decisions. Follow not those who give you fish, but those who teach you fishing.
Hi.... My sentiments exactly. I will not be told how to be/ how to live/ how to conform to society in any way shape or form... I am me.. I live by my own rules. I don't and never will take anything from the government ( even my pension cos will probably be dead!!).... And will never starve because nature provides.Every part of the dandelion is edible! Sacrifice my precious son or grandson... Nah ..don't think so!
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2020, 01:47 PM
Elfin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
hi elfin, it wasn't about the sacrifice, or even about courage. It was question.
How far are you willing to go? Will you take this all the way to the end, or will you just say whatever you think will please me without really meaning it? The answer was given and then God spared the child.
I understand... It's all about how much you actually believe in God... How much faith. ..( but even so!...a cruel example!)....
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2020, 01:49 PM
Elfin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil
Holy cow...the mind truely boggles.

There is no way that God the Heavenly Father would ask a person to sacrifice a living sentient being.

Also there is no need for God the Heavenly Father to test Abraham's faith whatsoever. God would already know of Abraham's level of faith. So it would be a pointless unloving exercise.

And also if Abraham believed that God wanted him to sacrifice a living being & then actually set out to do so, then there is something wrong with Abraham's mentality & quality of Soul'self.

And any persons, that consider that the biblical story of God asking Abraham to sacrifice a sentient being, is true. Then those persons do not understand the all Holy, all Loving & all merciful way of the Heavenly Father Christ entity & of the Christ entities WAY OF LOVE.
Hi Neil... But that is what we were taught , was it not ?
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2020, 01:50 PM
Elfin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfin
Hi Neil... But that is what we were taught , was it not ?
I'm not saying it's right.
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  #16  
Old 08-03-2020, 01:59 PM
Elfin
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But I'm with Neil..the one source is pure love and "being" within that love.
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  #17  
Old 09-03-2020, 02:38 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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A deeply disturbing story and accounted as such by many. Clearly, the point is to show that human sacrifice is never warranted or acceptable.

According to the bible, there is no mention of Isaac ever speaking to his father again, a fact pointed out in commentary for many centuries.
It seems there was fallout and at some level, the breach of trust may never have been repaired.

The father figure is powerful and looms large in the eyes of a child, even if he is flawed and unreliable. The one thing we ask from our fathers, even if they are not present and do not actively protect us, is to do us no harm. And the other critical thing would be to acknowledge us, hopefully with kindness and affirmation.
Abraham was of course only human. He took the first steps on the path to knowing What Is, or, who he was at centre in relationship to all that is.

But we might say Abraham failed the minimal standards of fatherhood with Ishmael and with Isaac. He did not protect them but actively put their lives on the line, at different times. It was down to both of the sons to forge a new relationship with their children. Also, it was down to the sons, their descendants, and the rest of humanity to continually forge a more intimate and illuminated relationship with What Is

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #18  
Old 09-03-2020, 03:18 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
A deeply disturbing story and accounted as such by many. Clearly, the point is to show that human sacrifice is never warranted or acceptable.

Anti-Semitics use this account as an example of human sacrifice in the Bible. But was it? What human was sacrificed?

When people relay this account, they sometimes have a tendency to forget what type of relationship Abraham had with God. If we had such a miraculous relationship, would we know deep in our heart that God would protect us? Would we be able to grasp that this event foreshadowed something to occur but on a grandeur scale?

Now back to Abraham. At first, he did not put his trust in God as mentioned when dealing with Pharaoh and King Abimelech, did he? God made promises to Abraham and provided him with a miraculous son, Isaac. God had already promised a great nation would come thru his son Isaac so Abraham must have known when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, and that something good would come from this. Abraham put his full trust in God: something most people have issues with. In this case, intervention came thru an Angel that stepped forth and stopped the sacrifice.

If Isaac had been perfect, that is one without sin, the sacrifice would have been the perfect sacrifice. Later in time, a perfect sacrifice was made. That occurred when Jesus was executed.
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  #19  
Old 09-03-2020, 03:28 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Abraham's account foreshadowed that another Father would go thru with the sacrifice of his son. The sacrifice would be a perfect sacrifice and being such, there would be no Angel intervening in the death of the son.

The Father would be God and the son would be Jesus.

Jesus' death would open the Way for the restoration of the Paradise that was Lost.
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  #20  
Old 11-03-2020, 02:09 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
Anti-Semitics use this account as an example of human sacrifice in the Bible. But was it? What human was sacrificed?

When people relay this account, they sometimes have a tendency to forget what type of relationship Abraham had with God. If we had such a miraculous relationship, would we know deep in our heart that God would protect us? Would we be able to grasp that this event foreshadowed something to occur but on a grandeur scale?

Now back to Abraham. At first, he did not put his trust in God as mentioned when dealing with Pharaoh and King Abimelech, did he? God made promises to Abraham and provided him with a miraculous son, Isaac. God had already promised a great nation would come thru his son Isaac so Abraham must have known when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, and that something good would come from this. Abraham put his full trust in God: something most people have issues with. In this case, intervention came thru an Angel that stepped forth and stopped the sacrifice.

If Isaac had been perfect, that is one without sin, the sacrifice would have been the perfect sacrifice. Later in time, a perfect sacrifice was made. That occurred when Jesus was executed.

John, I disagree With basically all your assertions and assumptions. Isaac was a mortal human being and was never expected to be perfect I am not a Christian so I don't have to believe all the Jesus lore either. Jesus was either an enlightened soul but human and imperfect. Or he was not human (???) and thus the same standards don't apply

Either way, IMO it's Jesus's relentless reminder to live the law which was so key. It was his relentless emphasis on the existing law's primary commandment...the directive to love, to be compassionate, to care for one another, and to forgiveness transgressions and make amends. This emphatic message was his key contribution.

As I see it (and as many others have commented or put forth):
Abraham was still coming out of a polytheistic sacrificial culture where human life had little intrinsic value -- even though he had embraced a different belief system and had left Ur.

And Abe was conflicted and not fully realised in his understanding of and relationship with God and his own "higher self". War and battle may often be unavoidable throughout history but human sacrifice to appease the gods, much less the One God, is not...and this was the meaning of this story, IMO.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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