Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > General Religion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 24-02-2020, 01:40 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,305
  7luminaries's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
Possibly it is childish. But it is also an attempt to get God to be accountable for Himself. If God creates an imperfect reality or being (such as earth and people) then He ought to be accountable and share the fate of His creation.
Honza this is a serious question and loads of big thinkers have wondered the same as you, including religious folk.

Kabbalistic mystics say God evolves and grows in relationship with us -- because existence changes and grows and so God must also, due to us and to creation -- and BTW why couldn't God grow and change as God sees fit? but that's another conversation.

So, God evolves as we do and because we do, because God is never separate from any part of God, including us and including all creation/existence. Even whilst God is beyond all knowing and God is all knowing -- for one, because God is beyond all space and time and even consciousness, but that's where we tend to lose the thread b/c it becomes meaningless to us. It's a tangled web and we don't understand all the seeming contradictions, LOL...

That's fine...the part I get is that God is present and connected to us and to all that is. And that as we grow so does God. So as God grows, do we grow? That would be helpful

And now to the accountability...if God gives us free will...it's mostly on us. But if it turns out humanity cannot be salvaged in the main, or if it turns out we've had so much interference and obstruction (perhaps from the most sordid elements of humanity) that we cannot right ourselves...then what do we do? It may be we are beyond the capacity to save ourselves...it may be that Gaia cannot be repaired adequately of the damage we've done to her.

Will God take ownership? Will God put things to right here? The argument has always been if that were to occur, it would abrogate our free will. Though...perhaps there would be a need to examine the core iniquities and hubris that were both allowed free reign in the recent modern era. In the last 50-75 years, it seems, and particularly in the last 30-50 years, the generations of humanity that were "in charge" at the time have decimated the globe, the environment, and the range of plant and animal life. Half of humanity are increasing seen primarily just as sexual outlets, as subhuman. Murder and lethal rape against women is now being labeled as justified even in the West, as Western society now apparently may accept that lethal rape and snuff porn fantasies can be used as a legal defense for murder.

The bible says the last apocalypse was one of water and the next will be one of fire (nuclear or just environmental). So perhaps we could (sadly) also look at it this way...

If we do not consciously work to overcome our iniquities that led us to overconsume, rape, and bankrupt our world, our economies, our societies, and our fellow humans -- we will likely eliminate ourselves. So it seems that God has a built-in failsafe...and that implies that God has taken responsibility at the end stage (of our immature humanity). We will either overcome the end stage of our immaturity and mature into more progressive spiritual beings or we will die out (in flames). I think hope springs eternal all round and for that reason, God lets us determine our fate, in the hope that we may choose love over power (as Jimi Hendrix said). Even if we ultimately cannot save ourselves, we will have made enormous spiritual gains if humanity can come to a place of authentic love in our treatment of one another.

We can see that the iniquities are deep and pervasive, however...and require an ongoing struggle. If we give up that struggle our humanity (individual) is doomed...as is our collective humanity.

I do wonder if God were to re-create humanity, would he give us a deeper core of empathy and integrity and strength of character? Would he make all humanity less prone to addictions and cruelty and men especially less prone to perversions, violence, and sexual addictions? These are deeply, intrinsically spiritual flaws and are way disproportionate to any sort of survival-based physical instinct.

Because of the strength and depth of our core iniquities, we are challenged to struggle. Without a cohesive, supportive family and social structure that honours and nurtures our growth and our better angels, humanity will of course struggle and largely will fail to reach the fullness of our human capacity. Mainly, we will largely fail to develop the capacity to love one another (and ourselves) authentically.

So...I think that if we cannot overcome and endure, perhaps God/creator should reflect on our core spiritual iniquities and how human nature may need to change in order to succeed , i.e. exist sustainably with one another and with Gaia and life on Gaia.

And...I wonder if this has in fact perhaps already happened multiple times, not counting pre-flood? Apparently humanity were already wiped out then and the "good egg" was retained, to give the next round of humanity a better start, morally and ethically, from a better spiritual source (Noah). Perhaps we have or will need many more iterations of this same culling...if we can't manage to move forward on our own.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 24-02-2020, 03:12 PM
Honza Honza is offline
Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: God's House
Posts: 11,319
  Honza's Avatar
Very interesting thank you.
__________________

The Humility, The Pride and The Humiliation.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 24-02-2020, 06:32 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
Master
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 1,926
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
I do wonder if God were to re-create humanity, would he give us a deeper core of empathy and integrity and strength of character? Would he make all humanity less prone to addictions and cruelty and men especially less prone to perversions, violence, and sexual addictions? These are deeply, intrinsically spiritual flaws and are way disproportionate to any sort of survival-based physical instinct.

Because of the strength and depth of our core iniquities, we are challenged to struggle. Without a cohesive, supportive family and social structure that honours and nurtures our growth and our better angels, humanity will of course struggle and largely will fail to reach the fullness of our human capacity. Mainly, we will largely fail to develop the capacity to love one another (and ourselves) authentically.

Or perhaps humanity is a work in progress, and we should wait to see the end result before we pass judgement on human limitations.

A saint may have had many incarnations of depravity on the journey to sainthood, and such incarnations may be necessary to rise above the lower nature. So humanity has to rise above the lower tendencies to greed and selfishness in order to fulfil its potential.

Unfortunately now is the time when greed and selfishness are rampant, but it is ridiculous to say that God should have created humans differently. Perhaps in some long-distant future, when humanity has embraced its spiritual nature and is living in harmony with all things, we might concede that God actually designed it all rather well.

Peace
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 24-02-2020, 09:30 PM
Apakhana Akshobhya Apakhana Akshobhya is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 404
  Apakhana Akshobhya's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Or perhaps humanity is a work in progress, and we should wait to see the end result before we pass judgement on human limitations.

A saint may have had many incarnations of depravity on the journey to sainthood, and such incarnations may be necessary to rise above the lower nature. So humanity has to rise above the lower tendencies to greed and selfishness in order to fulfil its potential.

Unfortunately now is the time when greed and selfishness are rampant, but it is ridiculous to say that God should have created humans differently. Perhaps in some long-distant future, when humanity has embraced its spiritual nature and is living in harmony with all things, we might concede that God actually designed it all rather well.

Peace

I think what you're describing is the way we take the very long path, the turtle path lol, by letting nature dictate everything to us to the point we rise above what needs to be.

Believe me there are way faster ways though.

The realizations I've been able to acquire by my own work have taught me the nature of God can't be completely known but we can become more and more like our creator by changing the way the egotistic "divider" which seperates us from the light functions.

As has been said and taught for ages there's really nothing that isn't the light. Nothing that isn't the Creator. When we can't help but perceive ourselves as different from it then we need to make corrections to our self to better match the qualities of the Light of the Creator in order to become similar again.

If a person hasn't yet and is even interested go find an authentic teacher (there are very very few despite what the internet says) and earn shaktipat from them. Shaktipat is one person's introduction to the light from another. This can be earned by Grace also but is even more rare though I think we are seeing it more and more in our time now as we move into a better age like you said.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 24-02-2020, 09:45 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 15,656
  Miss Hepburn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apakhana Akshobhya
I think what you're describing is the way we take the very long path, the turtle path lol, by
letting nature dictate everything to us to the point we rise above what needs to be.

Believe me there are way faster ways though.

The realizations I've been able to acquire by my own work have taught me the nature of God can't be completely known but we can become more and more like our creator by changing the way the egotistic "divider" which separates us from the light functions.

As has been said and taught for ages there's really nothing that isn't the light. Nothing that isn't the Creator. When we can't help but perceive ourselves as
different from it then we need to make corrections to our self to better match the qualities of the Light of the Creator in order to become similar again.

If a person hasn't yet and is even interested go find an authentic teacher (there are very very few despite what the internet says) and earn shaktipat from them.

Shaktipat is one person's introduction to the light from another.
This can be earned by Grace also but is even more rare though I think we are seeing it more and more in our time now as we move into a better age like you said.
I like you.


Added: I've been on the turtle Path - since I rem vividly 2 last lives, very slow learner. Embarrassing, really.
But, no more!! I got a secret method - but I talk about it too much already!!!!!
__________________
.,

"Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by riding daily in a balloon of divine perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones...Meditate unceasingly,
that you quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence"
~~Lahiri Mahasaya, the guru of Yogananda's guru

I have no scientific evidence for anything I say.
Better to PM me if you want me to see a post to me. I miss a lot.







Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 25-02-2020, 05:15 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 10,918
  Shivani Devi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat

Do not confuse your Atmic nature and your personality. Atman is one with Brahman. Personality is an expression of Atman in form.

Peace
That is something Honza cannot get, no matter how much it has been explained to him....and in a way, I can sympathize.

The personality has attributes in the physical, material world. What attributes does Atman or Brahman have in this physical manifestation to make any association with a "Self" or an "I"?

Answer that for Honza and his immediate Enlightenment will be guaranteed.

I cannot answer it and therefore I just say "neti neti" into grand solipsistic bliss because there cannot be an elephant in the room if there is no room for an elephant to be in.

Is God remorseful? Occasionally, when He sees what Humans have done with the freedom He has given us...but He rarely lets it show because He doesn't want to prove that Lucifer (and his minions) were correct about our species in the first place and then were cast into the abyss for nothing...just for having the audacity to speak what God only thought silently...but He still holds out hope.... it's the only thing which did not escape Pandora's Box.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 25-02-2020, 09:00 AM
Honza Honza is offline
Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: God's House
Posts: 11,319
  Honza's Avatar
Words like Atman, Brahman, Solipsism, Self-realisation, Chakras etc. are all very new to me and the concepts they represent are unfamiliar. I am a westerner by birth and by nature.
__________________

The Humility, The Pride and The Humiliation.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 25-02-2020, 09:12 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 10,918
  Shivani Devi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
Words like Atman, Brahman, Solipsism, Self-realisation, Chakras etc. are all very new to me and the concepts they represent are unfamiliar. I am a westerner by birth and by nature.
Atma(n) = Spirit/Soul or Life Essence.
Brahman = Absolute Non Dual Consciousness.
Solipsism = Reduction of all phenomenon to the process of thought until even thoughts themselves implode.
Self Realization - Understanding you are not the body, mind, personality or anything you could ever possibly believe yourself to be.
Chakras = energy vortexes within the astral sheath which covers the physical body.

There we go...you still don't understand any of it though huh?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 25-02-2020, 09:26 AM
hazada guess hazada guess is offline
Ascender
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: united Kingdom
Posts: 780
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
Words like Atman, Brahman, Solipsism, Self-realisation, Chakras etc. are all very new to me and the concepts they represent are unfamiliar. I am a westerner by birth and by nature.

Same here Honza,i'm also a weterner so when people start quoting eastern religions,I tune out.I do know what chakra's are and a few other things but when people start talking about teachers etc I'm lost.Mind You you have to respect other's belief system.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 25-02-2020, 12:02 PM
Honza Honza is offline
Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: God's House
Posts: 11,319
  Honza's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
There we go...you still don't understand any of it though huh?

I think one has to grow up with such concepts in order to understand them properly. Reincarnation I am familiar with, and I think that if I have lived before then I would have always been a westerner with a western religious understanding.

It may take many lifetimes to fully understand a spiritual belief system.
__________________

The Humility, The Pride and The Humiliation.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums