Mandela Effect

[Armadodecadron]

I don't buy it. It's incompatible with a much more plausible phenomenon, namely chaos theory.

Let's take the titular Berenstain bears. In the -stein bears universe, the authors of the books would have been named Berenstein, as they named the bears after themselves.

That means in the -stein universe, every document, every utterance and thought related to their name, would have been different. Everyone who ever printed or wrote their name would have used a slightly different amount of ink to do it. They would have had to replace the ink slightly earlier or slightly later, which would have affected the supply and demand for ink, which would ever so slightly change shipping schedules, trade agreements, prices, and so on. Then somebody gets fired or hired because business was better or worse depending on what world you were on. They go on to lead a completely different kind of life, and meet different people at different times, and they go on to lead altered lives from that, and pretty soon your proverbial butterfly caused a hurricane.

So these people claiming to be transplants from the -stein universe wouldn't just notice a simple name change. They'd be causally incompatible with a hell of a lot more in this universe. They'd remember enough things differently for us to see them as completely insane, or at least afflicted with what we perceived as entirely faulty memories.

Maybe such people do exist, and such transplants have happened. But it ain't the people yakking about it on the internet and being excited about children's book bears, that's for goddamn sure.

This whole thing is little more than pop-culture, and it only exists because the people involved aren't taking the time to deconstruct the idea in the big picture. And when you're talking about universes, ignoring the big picture is kind of an unforgivable offense.

[Goddessa]

Originally Posted by Armadodecadron

Maybe such people do exist, and such transplants have happened. But it ain't the people yakking about it on the internet and being excited about children's book bears, that's for goddamn sure.

This whole thing is little more than pop-culture, and it only exists because the people involved aren't taking the time to deconstruct the idea in the big picture. And when you're talking about universes, ignoring the big picture is kind of an unforgivable offense.

How can you do you know what these kind of people would do though? Especially after you said you aren't buying this and that "maybe" these people exist? Honest question here.

Anyway this theory, especially in relation to Nelson Mandela, is very intriguing. If Nelson Mandela had died in prison there really would have been some rough times in South Africa. The guy they released from prison has always seemed like a stooge to me. Someone who was released to hold the country together during the transition and to do the bidding of whoever is really in charge, probably for the sake of the economy. It is interesting that people here are strongly divided about the legacy of Nelson Mandela, some see him as some kind of saint and others see him as a sellout and someone who stifled real reconciliation.

Another interesting thing about the Mandela story specifically is that I haven't found anyone here who remembers his funeral in the 80s likes lot of people specifically in the US do. According to them, it was a televised funeral and for weeks or months after they also remember some legal wrangling a over a book (about Mandela). They also remember a speech his wife Winnie made at the funeral and it is interesting to note how completely marginalized and treated with disdain Winnie was after his release.

[Armadodecadron]

Originally Posted by Goddessa

How can you do you know what these kind of people would do though? Especially after you said you aren't buying this and that "maybe" these people exist? Honest question here.

You... I... Whaaaaa? Did I just jump into an alternate earth where my previous post didn't contain a lengthy rant about the impossibility of small individual changes without massive ripple effects overwriting all of history? OH NO ITS HAPPENING WHY DID I DOUBT YOU ALL

No, wait. It's still there. That leaves you either not completely reading my post or not understanding it well enough to apply it on the personal scale. The idea is that these hypothetical people would be utterly transformed by a single, small change. They would recall substantially different worlds, not tiny individual alterations. That is what I mean when I say the people yakking about tiny changes on the internet are clearly not representative of hypothetical world jumping. They can't be because the accounts they give are functionally impossible.

[Goddessa]

Originally Posted by Armadodecadron

You... I... Whaaaaa? Did I just jump into an alternate earth where my previous post didn't contain a lengthy rant about the impossibility of small individual changes without massive ripple effects overwriting all of history? OH NO ITS HAPPENING WHY DID I DOUBT YOU ALL

No, wait. It's still there. That leaves you either not completely reading my post or not understanding it well enough to apply it on the personal scale. The idea is that these hypothetical people would be utterly transformed by a single, small change. They would recall substantially different worlds, not tiny individual alterations. That is what I mean when I say the people yakking about tiny changes on the internet are clearly not representative of hypothetical world jumping. They can't be because the accounts they give are functionally impossible.

Oh ok, so you think the whole thing is "hypothetically impossible". Fine. Thanks for responding to my question ;)

[Armadodecadron]

No, I think anyone who believes this happened to them and recalls one or two small details has either a severely defective memory or poor judgment, and, apparently, crippling issues with reading comprehension.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Goddessa

I remember reading about the Mandela Effect a few years ago. I also remember thinking that it could explain a lot of the disillusionment that many South Africans (me included) feel about Nelson Mandela. Nelson Mandela is definitely no hero to me. He is the opposite. I've always felt a particular repulsion towards the woman he married when he got out of prison too. Someone who for me clearly radiates pure evil.

Interesting theory. Does this mean that both worlds exist at the same time?

Many worlds -- or timelines (which must exist in some sort of separate space) -- exist.

But your currently embodied consciousness is only physically local to any one timeline at any one time. Your current embodied consciousness is most resonant with the timeline (place/time or "world") that either 1) is your place of origin or 2) is very similar to your place of origin...identical out to many decimal places but containing various very small differences in its history, where some things have always existed with small differences to what you remember. No huge ripple effects noticeable, except very possibly for the growing momentum of effects on consciousness raising from the point(s) of conversion, and going forward.

There are cutting edge quantum theory "many worlds" discussions going on right now which exactly describe this...whereby if for any reason (like the Hadron super particle collider) something were to cause one universe to collapse on itself...your consciousness and all others currently extant on the timeline/universe of origin would immediately shift into the next closest timeline/universe(in similarity).

The theory is, it would be seamless and instantaneous to your perception...with the only residual being the iota of difference that naturally existed between the two very, very, very similar -- but not identical -- universes.

Don't expect most to get this. Don't rely on every memory even if your recollection tends to be visual and precise.
But do trust your strongest memories and perceptions. And don't worry about the naysayers.

The reality is, most memories in most folks are easily overwritten or adjusted, often consciously by they themselves in order to align with their current reality. The most pervasive reason for faulty memories that pertains to this topic is this tendency to override our own experiences in order to fit in with the mainstream narrative...it's just that powerful and most do it blindly and unthinkingly whenever they may happen to run up against something that oddly no longer seems to be here, or to have happened, or to have happened a certain way.

Additionally, some folks' memories are rather porous, that's true -- it's not their strong point. Fair enough. And moreover, there are some folks who only exist in this reality and never existed in the next most similar thread or bubble of reality. So Arma and many others will only ever remember the one past they know.

The experiences of others cannot and do not discount your reality, and that's the end of it

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Goddessa

How can you do you know what these kind of people would do though? Especially after you said you aren't buying this and that "maybe" these people exist? Honest question here.

Anyway this theory, especially in relation to Nelson Mandela, is very intriguing. If Nelson Mandela had died in prison there really would have been some rough times in South Africa. The guy they released from prison has always seemed like a stooge to me. Someone who was released to hold the country together during the transition and to do the bidding of whoever is really in charge, probably for the sake of the economy. It is interesting that people here are strongly divided about the legacy of Nelson Mandela, some see him as some kind of saint and others see him as a sellout and someone who stifled real reconciliation.

Another interesting thing about the Mandela story specifically is that I haven't found anyone here who remembers his funeral in the 80s likes lot of people specifically in the US do. According to them, it was a televised funeral and for weeks or months after they also remember some legal wrangling a over a book (about Mandela). They also remember a speech his wife Winnie made at the funeral and it is interesting to note how completely marginalized and treated with disdain Winnie was after his release.

Yes this is spot on and I know there are many here in the UK and in other countries worldwide who remember his televised funeral and Winnie's presence there. He was seen as a hero. Then instead...years later he was released from prison (???) and they divorced and his legacy was not as clear-cut, though still respected. Very, very odd. Among so many other things.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[rodan]

It's an interesting subject. How can so many people, millions, in some cases, believe a false memory? Collective false memories is a term thrown around now. I could understand a few people with a false memory of an event, but, millions?

Would be interesting if history would show this happening to previous generations, and articles or books even written about it, ( it wouldn't be referred to as " mandela effect ", would have been termed something else).

In my own reality, many of the subjects attributed to the Mandela Effect, I have debunked. There, are a handful, that I can't. I remember these specific events, well, falsely.

[Raziel]

Hi there,

As the great Tim White used to say "no mystery is closed, to an open mind"!

There will be lots of fakes (why I don't know) & some mis-remembering for sure but I am 100% of one thing - the movie Terminator 2.

Years ago a movie hit the cinema then about 3 years later it came to the video stores, then another 2 years later home video. When T2 arrived in video rental stores I had it reserved to collect after school. My dad knew the guy who owned it so I used to get posters or promotional stuff here & there.

At the end of the movie Sarah Connor watched her son John & grandchild in a playground talking about how the future was theirs now thanks to the Teminator (Ahnuld). Any copy I have seen after the home video release had a different ending.

On the DVD extras it is referred to as the future coda ending. But it was never released before then yet I have a clear memory of it. The logical possibility is that somehow I got the alternate ending on my copy as a mistake but way back in VHS times it was very complicated to change an ending & costly.

I saw the intended ending - for sure.

Another thing that horrified me was seeing JFK's car. I know as I know my own name that it was a 4 seat car. Every video & picture ever was 4 seats. Now however there are 6 seats. Front & passenger, Connely & his wife, John & Jackie. I have always seen Front (driver) Connely then John & Jackie.

The amount of documentaries on it I saw as a child is crazy, plus books & even photos of the car at Bethesda hospital - all showing 4 seats not 6.

It could all just be coincidences but I am also willing to listen to others as I can relate massively.

[rodan]

"Another thing that horrified me was seeing JFK's car. I know as I know my own name that it was a 4 seat car. Every video & picture ever was 4 seats. Now however there are 6 seats. Front & passenger, Connely & his wife, John & Jackie. I have always seen Front (driver) Connely then John & Jackie." end quote

Gov. Connally was sitting directly in fron of Pres. Kennedy. He was also hit with a bullet(s), supposely from one round that went through Kennedy's throat and into Gov. Connally.
Gov. Connally's wife was sitting next to the Governor. She was sitting directly in front of Jackie Kennedy.
If this was a four seat limo, that would mean Mrs. Connally would have to have been driving, and, this is not the case.
It is a six seat limo, in the front seat were two men, two secret service agents, one of them driving.
This is what I've always believed, anyway.