How devoted are you to your beliefs?

People often become rather devoted to their beliefs and will defend them at all costs. When one holds a belief, it is not a bad thing to mount a defence of it when attacked, as it can help to show you just how well you understand what it is you believe. But there are also the faith warriors who will mount a defence with any seemingly absurd line of reasoning they can muster. They will conjure up what they call scientific proof that doesn't even begin to pass muster with the scientific method, and they will engage in extreme logical fallacy while accusing others of doing the same thing.

Just how devoted to our beliefs should we be and how much interest should we have in questioning and defending our beliefs, to our selves, or others?

Do you think you and/or others should have some basis for what they believe, or is it pretty much anything goes, we can believe whatever we want no matter what science or facts may indicate?

Why is it, and/or how is it, that some people can become so devoted to beliefs that to the rest of us seem so patently ridiculous against the "facts" that we generally seem to agree on? Answers with a psychological bent get extra Karma points on this last one.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by ketzer

People often become rather devoted to their beliefs and will defend them at all costs. When one holds a belief, it is not a bad thing to mount a defence of it when attacked, as it can help to show you just how well you understand what it is you believe. But there are also the faith warriors who will mount a defence with any seemingly absurd line of reasoning they can muster. They will conjure up what they call scientific proof that doesn't even begin to pass muster with the scientific method, and they will engage in extreme logical fallacy while accusing others of doing the same thing.

Just how devoted to our beliefs should we be and how much interest should we have in questioning and defending our beliefs, to our selves, or others?

Do you think you and/or others should have some basis for what they believe, or is it pretty much anything goes, we can believe whatever we want no matter what science or facts may indicate?

Why is it, and/or how is it, that some people can become so devoted to beliefs that to the rest of us seem so patently ridiculous against the "facts" that we generally seem to agree on? Answers with a psychological bent get extra Karma points on this last one.

Doesn't this fall under the idea we create our own reality.

Originally Posted by lemex

Doesn't this fall under the idea we create our own reality.

Yes, I suppose it does. Yet when we co-create that reality, there are aspects that we do not control (or choose to allow in order to participate). So perhaps the question is, how much of our co-created reality do we acknowledge and how much do we deny, and why? And of course I suppose there is always the possibility that the aspects of reality we disagree on are in fact aspects our own created realities we do not share in common, which is a whole other can of worms.
But ultimately what I am after here is our interpretations and beliefs that arise from the aspects of our realities we do hold in common. Some vehemently seem to deny what for most of us are scientific facts and choose to believe something else entirely. And they will defend their belief with vigor, why?

[lemex]

Deleted post. Sorry, I didn't read the question as was written. Let me get back to you.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by ketzer

People often become rather devoted to their beliefs and will defend them at all costs. When one holds a belief, it is not a bad thing to mount a defence of it when attacked, as it can help to show you just how well you understand what it is you believe. But there are also the faith warriors who will mount a defence with any seemingly absurd line of reasoning they can muster. They will conjure up what they call scientific proof that doesn't even begin to pass muster with the scientific method, and they will engage in extreme logical fallacy while accusing others of doing the same thing.

Just how devoted to our beliefs should we be and how much interest should we have in questioning and defending our beliefs, to our selves, or others?

Do you think you and/or others should have some basis for what they believe, or is it pretty much anything goes, we can believe whatever we want no matter what science or facts may indicate?

Why is it, and/or how is it, that some people can become so devoted to beliefs that to the rest of us seem so patently ridiculous against the "facts" that we generally seem to agree on? Answers with a psychological bent get extra Karma points on this last one.

This is human nature. We want to be in the right, we do not want to be proved wrong. So we defend our beliefs against all alternative beliefs for as long as we can. Trying to reason against someone else's beliefs is usually an exercise in futility, and there are many examples of this on this forum.

For myself, I have many beliefs which I cannot prove but which make sense to me - the existence of other planes of consciousness, the survival of consciousness after death, the reincarnation of consciousness into successive physical bodies. These may go against conventional science, but I do not look to science as an authority on these subjects. My beliefs come from studying the teachings of those whom I consider to be greater authorities.

We each have our own model of the universe and how it works and why it is present. Our model makes sense to us. If something new is presented we try to make it fit into our model. If it fits easily, then we accept it. If it goes against our model then we squeeze the facts until they do fit our model. If we cannot make it fit then we reject it. If we cannot reject it then we are finally compelled to adjust our model to accommodate the new evidence.

Regarding the question of scientific proof, much depends on how much credibility and authority we give to science. Scientists themselves are not immune from preferring their own beliefs over evidence. I think it was Dean Radin who said that by any scientific methodology the evidence for psychic abilities is beyond doubt. If such evidence had been for anything other than psychic abilities then it would have been accepted as true by science. But conventional science ignores the evidence because it contradicts cherished beliefs.

As someone once said, any new idea which is valid but which goes against accepted belief goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed, then it is violently opposed, and finally it is accepted.

Peace.

[FallingLeaves]

so life is saying, we all have to believe 'rational' things that 'make sense to others' and we aren't allowed to be 'arbitrary' with our believes and just beleive what seem to be 'the most stupid things to others'?

Why is that true?

And who gets to decide what 'others' will allow?

From the Tao Te Ching CH 20:

Being individual or pandering to each other
How do these differ?
Valuing or hating each other
What is the difference?

It looks like one cannot lack respect for what others put respect in
Such reckless desertion!
It is not yet centered, this way.

[inavalan]

One shouldn't be immuable in their beliefs. But, it is as bad to follow others' beliefs.

The only way is to frequently access and rely only on your inner source of knowledge. Unfortunately, I believe not everybody is able to do that during their current lives. Still, they should try.

The Creator of Life expresses Divine Love.

I as a creation should learn to express this Divine Love.

That is about all I can defend at this time.(as this is my experience)

I do not care what scientists say.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

The Creator of Life expresses Divine Love.

I as a creation should learn to express this Divine Love.

That is about all I can defend at this time.(as this is my experience)

I do not care what scientists say.

Honest question: how did you get to believe that "The Creator of Life expresses Divine Love" and "I as a creation should learn to express this Divine Love"?

Thanks

Originally Posted by inavalan

Honest question: how did you get to believe that "The Creator of Life expresses Divine Love" and "I as a creation should learn to express this Divine Love"?

Thanks

The easiest answer would be like an NDE except I was not near death so I guess
it might be called an OBE but I was not trying to do anything except I was praying in a Native American Ceremony.

So these ceremonies happen in the dark so at the time I did not realize I was
pulled out of my body.The place I entered was also dark but not unpleasant.
I thought I was still sitting where I was, then I saw this pin point of light.
I was like cool and it kept getting closer and I watched it and then I seen many
tiny golden drops of liquid Living Light.
When they came close I felt a warm wind full of Divine Love and then the light and wind blew right through me
and any self conscientiousness vanished and I felt the most overwhelming amount
of Love and acceptance and instantly I knew I had come from this Light and I knew
I would return because I was this Love Light. I knew it was my Source.
Then some communications happened and an entity turn me around and brought me back
through the ceiling. It was at that point I knew I was not in my body. I could see
all the people in the ceremony and also what the Medicine Man was doing. I asked him later if in fact it was as I described.
He confirmed he was doing what I had described.

I know my story is a bit vague but I hit the main points.

And lets say it was all in my mind. Even so if it is delusion I will stick with the delusion, because it was the most real thing that has happened thus far in my life. And my life keeps getting better and better since experiencing this event.

I will also add that there was effects in my body of continuing in this state of seeing and acting out of this Love Source for about 7 days and it gradually faded.

Then years later I had to learn to operate more and more out of this Divine Love by expressing it out of my core being.This is harder done then said.
I still do not operate or express to the level of that experience and have much room for growth.There is much unlearning to do.

This experience for me is like a compass for me and I often say Love is my compass.

Hope this helps.