Enlightenment by miracle or by effort

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Waverider

Do you think enlightnment can be attained by working hard at it? The few enlightened people i’m aware of namely eckhart tolle, ramana maharshi, ramakrishna etc attained enlightenment by miracle. Eckhart for example didn’t do any spiritual work. He was deeply dipressed and one fine morning he had attained enlightenment. There could be others who attained by working on it but i am not aware of any as my knowledge is limited in this sphere.

In a sense becoming enlightened is always a miracle. In a sense becoming enlightened is a single tiny shift. There are sayings along the lines that enlightenment is always only one step away until its not.

A lot of work, effort, assistance does not change the size or difficulty of making that shift. It does however make it more likely that you will make that shift.

For those who like analogy, image you are looking for your hat which as it turns out is on your head. Because of the size and placement, it can not be seen directly (by you) and is too light to easily notice. Clearly the act of finding your hat is almost trivial, a walk by a mirror, a reach to scratch a scalp itch, a friend telling you its on your head. The amount of looking for your hat does not affect the difficulty or effort of actually locating the hat. Still, you are more likely to realize where your hat is if you are looking for it.

[smilingsun]

Eckhart Tolle came from a state of enlightenment, all he had to do is, remember.
The other two I would not call enlightened.

If maharshi and ramakrishna weren't enlightened what were they ? Didn't they realised their Atman ? Many who came to visit ramana had very powerful experiences near him and consider his teachings on non duality as one of the highest available.

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by smilingsun

If maharshi and ramakrishna weren't enlightened what were they ? Didn't they realised their Atman ? Many who came to visit ramana had very powerful experiences near him and consider his teachings on non duality as one of the highest available.

I don't know what they realised, I look at them, connect with them and I know who and what they are. That's all.

Control can be achieved in many ways. Not just by domination, force

[Shivani Devi]

What one would call "miracle", another would call "Grace".

What one would call "enlightened", another would say "wise".

Second-hand knowledge of another's psycho-spiritual state, is just that and nothing more.

I am in no way discounting any personage of their spiritual attainment, all I am saying is there are those whom others would consider "enlightened" who may not be, and those who may be "enlightened" but live in total obscurity and nobody has ever heard of them. Therefore, people only have the most "popularised" versions to base their whole judgments and assumptions on as to what an "enlightened being" is.

The road to Nirvana is wholly and solely SELF evident, just like the Truth is. It does not require any circumstance or external variable to make it so.

If we are talking about "effort vs Grace", not only THIS lifetime, but all previous ones must be taken fully into account.

If a person has done a lot of Sadhana or Tapasya (spiritual effort) in a previous birth, they may seem to become awakened and/or enlightened in this one, with minimal to no effort and we would call that a "miracle" because we are simply not aware of the karma and vasanas due to previous existence(s). Sometimes, all it takes is a simple trigger for it all to come flooding back and they resume practice where they left off last incarnation.

Sometimes, they have unfinished karma with others and cannot attain Nirvana until that has been sorted out.

Whatever the case, no spiritual practice is ever lost and it is all cumulative, with the Divine Soul putting in just as much as you do.

Peace.

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

I don't know what they realised, I look at them, connect with them and I know who and what they are. That's all.

Control can be achieved in many ways. Not just by domination, force

Control meaning they were/are service to self ?