Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 31-07-2019, 08:09 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,874
  God-Like's Avatar
Realizations and conclusions of the mind and beyond ..

Thought it might be interesting to discuss this in reflection of a conversation had on Tara's thread about the spiritual teacher Robert Adams.

This isn't a Robert Adams or any other guru bashing thread or a defending of anyone's thread, it is simply addressing what is realized per se and what is concluded via the mind and how it is so.

So firstly one would have to address 'realizations' that are either of the mind or 'realizations' that are beyond the mind.

Realizations beyond the mind cannot even be called 'realizations' to a certain extent because there is no self present. There are no mindful reflections, or comparisons had of what you are, so there cannot be the thought that I have nothing to do with the mind-body-world-reality.

So we have to get this straight as a foundation to begin with. Agreed?

What I hear often and I am sure others do also, is peeps / teachers / guru's say that they are this or they are not this etc etc,

So where does this information come from?

It's easy to have an experience of the mind and burn your hand on the stove for examples sake.

You realize that the stove is hot and your hand burns.

These are all experiential realizations had, that are all mindful.

So then there is the so called realizations beyond the mindful experience had.

Then one again becomes aware of the stove post-realization and proclaims that the mind-body-reality is an illusion and perhaps there is only an illusory self present.

How do peeps think that they have realized all this when the realization itself pertains to no thought about oneself or this world .

self and the world do not exist at this point because there is no you .

What realization is it that one has that gives one the truthful impression or the knowing that they have nothing to do with this world or the body or that they can somehow float around as an unidentified self.


x daz x
__________________
Everything under the sun is in tune,but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 31-07-2019, 09:44 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Delhi, India
Posts: 10,936
  Unseeking Seeker's Avatar
***

Duality is real & Non Duality is real. Why not? Have the cake and eat it too! Why should it be this or that?

In oneness, as you have so aptly stated, there is no ‘I’ as in i-dentity. This means, no fragmented thought and no sensory inputs and no memory drawn imagery. Simply pristine unbounded limitless awareness.

As you have also correctly (in my view) stated, the limited mind cannot cognise the unlimited.

Now, even with the knowing that duality is an illusion, while resident therein, it is real for our consciousness. No getting away from this. Equally and perhaps more importantly, the ‘higher’ reality as revealed to our evolving in-form consciousness by limitless oneness awareness (both us!) is valid.

This would mean ... if we are to derive a purpose ... that the one becomes two paving the way for the two to fuse as one in an ecstatic blissful union of love ... love itself displaying its colourations as of our in-form cognitive enableability transitioning from bubbling joy to boundless ineffable bliss to all encompassing compassion and then purity, in ascending order of improved alignment between sheaths of our consciousness.

Or ... accept what is and enjoy the ride ... all analysis being paralysis.

***
__________________
The Self has no attribute
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 31-07-2019, 09:45 AM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
Deactivated Account
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,007
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
What realization is it that one has that gives one the truthful impression or the knowing that they have nothing to do with this world or the body or that they can somehow float around as an unidentified self.


x daz x

The realization your body died (stopped working) and you have now left it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 31-07-2019, 10:20 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,874
  God-Like's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
The realization your body died (stopped working) and you have now left it.

So when you peel a banana and throw away the skin, the skin is no longer part of the the banana?

From a perspective that there is only what you are, how can one separate one aspect from another?

We seem to look at what we are from a point of self awareness of a mind-body experience and we make distinctions based upon our present awareness .

Take the point of awareness away from our experience and what is left?

What we are or what we are not?


x daz x
__________________
Everything under the sun is in tune,but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 31-07-2019, 10:25 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,874
  God-Like's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
***

Duality is real & Non Duality is real. Why not? Have the cake and eat it too! Why should it be this or that?

In oneness, as you have so aptly stated, there is no ‘I’ as in i-dentity. This means, no fragmented thought and no sensory inputs and no memory drawn imagery. Simply pristine unbounded limitless awareness.

As you have also correctly (in my view) stated, the limited mind cannot cognise the unlimited.

Now, even with the knowing that duality is an illusion, while resident therein, it is real for our consciousness. No getting away from this. Equally and perhaps more importantly, the ‘higher’ reality as revealed to our evolving in-form consciousness by limitless oneness awareness (both us!) is valid.

This would mean ... if we are to derive a purpose ... that the one becomes two paving the way for the two to fuse as one in an ecstatic blissful union of love ... love itself displaying its colourations as of our in-form cognitive enableability transitioning from bubbling joy to boundless ineffable bliss to all encompassing compassion and then purity, in ascending order of improved alignment between sheaths of our consciousness.

Or ... accept what is and enjoy the ride ... all analysis being paralysis.

***

You seem to have an understanding that there can be both illusory aspects and real aspects in place.

That I feel is a balanced perspective that entertains a wide range of contexts.

What I see happening is that for some teachers it is only black or white so to speak and there is no middle ground at all .

What is not quite right in my eyes is for those to say it's black or white but live as if it isn't either ..

If you believed wholeheartedly that this world was illusory and you had nothing to do with the body you wouldn't care about any of it .

There would be no conforming to this world, it's rules or it's structures .

What you have is teachers toeing the line when the line is supposed to be illusory .


x daz x
__________________
Everything under the sun is in tune,but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 31-07-2019, 11:45 AM
Rawnrr Rawnrr is offline
Guide
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 592
  Rawnrr's Avatar
Quote:
So firstly one would have to address 'realizations' that are either of the mind or 'realizations' that are beyond the mind.

Realizations beyond the mind cannot even be called 'realizations' to a certain extent because there is no self present. There are no mindful reflections, or comparisons had of what you are, so there cannot be the thought that I have nothing to do with the mind-body-world-reality.

To further this discussion you would first have to define what "mind" is. Apparently in your view mind is only the aspect which relates to and interacts with the physical world/body.......But I would find that view of mind to be very limited and would argue that it goes well beyond that. Ones sense of self need not be limited to merely physical world interactions.
__________________
Expecting life to treat you well because you are a good person is like expecting an angry bull not to charge because you are a vegetarian. - Shari R Barr
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 31-07-2019, 12:21 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,874
  God-Like's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawnrr
To further this discussion you would first have to define what "mind" is. Apparently in your view mind is only the aspect which relates to and interacts with the physical world/body.......But I would find that view of mind to be very limited and would argue that it goes well beyond that. Ones sense of self need not be limited to merely physical world interactions.


My understanding of mind relates to everything that exists . Everything that is perceiving and perceived . Everything that is conscious and aware to various degrees. Everything that exists has to have an environment of sorts. The mind is the medium for experience and is not separate from the experiencer . It's an in depth discussion that perhaps is a worthy thread in itself but i agree with you in that there would have to be some common ground had on what constitutes mind and what doesn't and therefore reflecting upon mindful realizations and beyond mind realizations.

I tried to keep things basic in my opening post relating to experiential realizations of the mind and non experiential beyond.

This is suffice I would say due to the nature of the thread because we have spiritual teachers that are of the physical aspects of mind speaking about how reality actually is ..

All one needs to do if one is interested in the origin of one's teachings is to try and understand where this information has come from that gives one the impression or the certainty that for example this world is a dream world and is not real.

I have had Self realizations/s that reveal what you are beyond mind, that is beyond words so to speak, but I have never had beyond mind Self realizations that configure with the knowledge of the scriptures .

There are no words or thoughts about Self, self, the mind-body, the earth plane, one's sister or mother ..

So I am putting out the feelers for those to give their opinion how all of a sudden the beingness of what you are brings to the fore conclusions about this world-reality.

It's safe enough to say that as a result of this beingness beyond thought and mind, one concludes when aware the world again, that everything is what you are . This is the birthing of non duality and oneness .

This is as basic as it gets. When we start speaking about consciousness and every other thing under the sun then this stuff is not realized it is concluded . Even oneness is concluded and not realized for the realization itself beyond mind has no thought or feeling that relates to oneness . This is all mindful so I hope this explains further my thoughts on what constitutes mindfulness and what doesn't ..

If the world and self do not exist in beingness then how can something be realized that relates to them lol ..

This is what I am pointing out in regards to the differences between realization/s and conclusions of the mind .


x daz x
__________________
Everything under the sun is in tune,but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 31-07-2019, 04:53 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
Deactivated Account
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,007
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
What we are or what we are not?


x daz x

I've been struggling to lose 10 pounds for over a year. I'd deny myself food, suffer with hunger and denial and in a few weeks lose it, then in a week, gain it all back. I was in a battle with my body and my thoughts and my mind, See I am not my body or my thoughts or my mind. These are things I have until my body dies and I exist without them.

The "me" is who decided I was tired of having this 10 pounds of fat. I found I could not "win" against my body and mind and thoughts in the ways I was trying. I would always gain the weight back, Then I found a book on intermittent fasting. This is where you allow yourself to only eat in a small window of time.

I only eat from 3PM to 8PM. I lost the 10 pounds and have not gained it back. It has worked for me. I think the main reason it has worked is I no longer have to struggle with my body and mind and thoughts all day. Fight with these things. This "rule" that I only eat from 3PM to 8PM means I don't think about food all day. This rule superceeds all else so my mind and body and thoughts have no opportunity to come into play. From 3PM to 8PM I eat whatever I want. I get really full though and can't really eat that much in this small time window so yea, my weight gain has stopped.

I found a way to beat my body and minds desire for too much food.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 31-07-2019, 05:05 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
Deactivated Account
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,007
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
So when you peel a banana and throw away the skin, the skin is no longer part of the the banana?

yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
From a perspective that there is only what you are, how can one separate one aspect from another?

Why would anybody believe there is only what I am? I am not my parents, not you, not my cats. I'm just this little awareness in this body. There are zillions of things that are not me.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 31-07-2019, 05:32 PM
ImthatIm
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like

You realize that the stove is hot and your hand burns.

These are all experiential realizations had, that are all mindful.

So then there is the so called realizations beyond the mindful experience had.

Then one again becomes aware of the stove post-realization and proclaims that the mind-body-reality is an illusion and perhaps there is only an illusory self present.


x daz x

If one comes to the conclusion that mind-body is illusion one should be able to touch a red hot stove and not be burnt.

This person has realized something beyond the body and can now see the illusion.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums