Realizations and conclusions of the mind and beyond ..

[God-Like]

Thought it might be interesting to discuss this in reflection of a conversation had on Tara's thread about the spiritual teacher Robert Adams.

This isn't a Robert Adams or any other guru bashing thread or a defending of anyone's thread, it is simply addressing what is realized per se and what is concluded via the mind and how it is so.

So firstly one would have to address 'realizations' that are either of the mind or 'realizations' that are beyond the mind.

Realizations beyond the mind cannot even be called 'realizations' to a certain extent because there is no self present. There are no mindful reflections, or comparisons had of what you are, so there cannot be the thought that I have nothing to do with the mind-body-world-reality.

So we have to get this straight as a foundation to begin with. Agreed?

What I hear often and I am sure others do also, is peeps / teachers / guru's say that they are this or they are not this etc etc,

So where does this information come from?

It's easy to have an experience of the mind and burn your hand on the stove for examples sake.

You realize that the stove is hot and your hand burns.

These are all experiential realizations had, that are all mindful.

So then there is the so called realizations beyond the mindful experience had.

Then one again becomes aware of the stove post-realization and proclaims that the mind-body-reality is an illusion and perhaps there is only an illusory self present.

How do peeps think that they have realized all this when the realization itself pertains to no thought about oneself or this world .

self and the world do not exist at this point because there is no you .

What realization is it that one has that gives one the truthful impression or the knowing that they have nothing to do with this world or the body or that they can somehow float around as an unidentified self.


x daz x

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

Duality is real & Non Duality is real. Why not? Have the cake and eat it too! Why should it be this or that?

In oneness, as you have so aptly stated, there is no ‘I’ as in i-dentity. This means, no fragmented thought and no sensory inputs and no memory drawn imagery. Simply pristine unbounded limitless awareness.

As you have also correctly (in my view) stated, the limited mind cannot cognise the unlimited.

Now, even with the knowing that duality is an illusion, while resident therein, it is real for our consciousness. No getting away from this. Equally and perhaps more importantly, the ‘higher’ reality as revealed to our evolving in-form consciousness by limitless oneness awareness (both us!) is valid.

This would mean ... if we are to derive a purpose ... that the one becomes two paving the way for the two to fuse as one in an ecstatic blissful union of love ... love itself displaying its colourations as of our in-form cognitive enableability transitioning from bubbling joy to boundless ineffable bliss to all encompassing compassion and then purity, in ascending order of improved alignment between sheaths of our consciousness.

Or ... accept what is and enjoy the ride ... all analysis being paralysis.

***

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

Duality is real & Non Duality is real. Why not? Have the cake and eat it too! Why should it be this or that?

In oneness, as you have so aptly stated, there is no ‘I’ as in i-dentity. This means, no fragmented thought and no sensory inputs and no memory drawn imagery. Simply pristine unbounded limitless awareness.

As you have also correctly (in my view) stated, the limited mind cannot cognise the unlimited.

Now, even with the knowing that duality is an illusion, while resident therein, it is real for our consciousness. No getting away from this. Equally and perhaps more importantly, the ‘higher’ reality as revealed to our evolving in-form consciousness by limitless oneness awareness (both us!) is valid.

This would mean ... if we are to derive a purpose ... that the one becomes two paving the way for the two to fuse as one in an ecstatic blissful union of love ... love itself displaying its colourations as of our in-form cognitive enableability transitioning from bubbling joy to boundless ineffable bliss to all encompassing compassion and then purity, in ascending order of improved alignment between sheaths of our consciousness.

Or ... accept what is and enjoy the ride ... all analysis being paralysis.

***

You seem to have an understanding that there can be both illusory aspects and real aspects in place.

That I feel is a balanced perspective that entertains a wide range of contexts.

What I see happening is that for some teachers it is only black or white so to speak and there is no middle ground at all .

What is not quite right in my eyes is for those to say it's black or white but live as if it isn't either ..

If you believed wholeheartedly that this world was illusory and you had nothing to do with the body you wouldn't care about any of it .

There would be no conforming to this world, it's rules or it's structures .

What you have is teachers toeing the line when the line is supposed to be illusory .


x daz x

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by God-Like

What realization is it that one has that gives one the truthful impression or the knowing that they have nothing to do with this world or the body or that they can somehow float around as an unidentified self.


x daz x

The realization your body died (stopped working) and you have now left it.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

The realization your body died (stopped working) and you have now left it.

So when you peel a banana and throw away the skin, the skin is no longer part of the the banana?

From a perspective that there is only what you are, how can one separate one aspect from another?

We seem to look at what we are from a point of self awareness of a mind-body experience and we make distinctions based upon our present awareness .

Take the point of awareness away from our experience and what is left?

What we are or what we are not?


x daz x

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by God-Like

What we are or what we are not?


x daz x

I've been struggling to lose 10 pounds for over a year. I'd deny myself food, suffer with hunger and denial and in a few weeks lose it, then in a week, gain it all back. I was in a battle with my body and my thoughts and my mind, See I am not my body or my thoughts or my mind. These are things I have until my body dies and I exist without them.

The "me" is who decided I was tired of having this 10 pounds of fat. I found I could not "win" against my body and mind and thoughts in the ways I was trying. I would always gain the weight back, Then I found a book on intermittent fasting. This is where you allow yourself to only eat in a small window of time.

I only eat from 3PM to 8PM. I lost the 10 pounds and have not gained it back. It has worked for me. I think the main reason it has worked is I no longer have to struggle with my body and mind and thoughts all day. Fight with these things. This "rule" that I only eat from 3PM to 8PM means I don't think about food all day. This rule superceeds all else so my mind and body and thoughts have no opportunity to come into play. From 3PM to 8PM I eat whatever I want. I get really full though and can't really eat that much in this small time window so yea, my weight gain has stopped.

I found a way to beat my body and minds desire for too much food.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

I've been struggling to lose 10 pounds for over a year. I'd deny myself food, suffer with hunger and denial and in a few weeks lose it, then in a week, gain it all back. I was in a battle with my body and my thoughts and my mind, See I am not my body or my thoughts or my mind. These are things I have until my body dies and I exist without them.

The "me" is who decided I was tired of having this 10 pounds of fat. I found I could not "win" against my body and mind and thoughts in the ways I was trying. I would always gain the weight back, Then I found a book on intermittent fasting. This is where you allow yourself to only eat in a small window of time.

I only eat from 3PM to 8PM. I lost the 10 pounds and have not gained it back. It has worked for me. I think the main reason it has worked is I no longer have to struggle with my body and mind and thoughts all day. Fight with these things. This "rule" that I only eat from 3PM to 8PM means I don't think about food all day. This rule superceeds all else so my mind and body and thoughts have no opportunity to come into play. From 3PM to 8PM I eat whatever I want. I get really full though and can't really eat that much in this small time window so yea, my weight gain has stopped.

I found a way to beat my body and minds desire for too much food.

Having a battle with your mind-body in relation to food doesn't negate the union that is what you are that encompasses everything .

This battle you are having and the distinctions you are making comes about through your perception you have of yourself.

This is entirely natural so to speak, that's why the swan believed it was an ugly duckling because that is what he believed of himself.

It doesn't however make it true ..

But what does one have to work with and go on if one has only certain reflections to perceive ..

What is your understanding of oneness in regards to what you are and all there is?

Do you have any if you don't mind me asking ..

You say that you are not your mind or your body, so where does the mind and body fit in with the grand scheme of things .

I hear it often, that I am not my thoughts, well whose thought's do they belong to whose are they?

If there is only what you are, all one is doing is chopping and dividing all there is into a certain piles, one pile for what you are and one pile for what you are not .

One has to look at the point of awareness that makes these distinctions and then ask oneself from where am I coming from .



x daz x

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by God-Like

You say that you are not your mind or your body, so where does the mind and body fit in with the grand scheme of things .

I hear it often, that I am not my thoughts, well whose thought's do they belong to whose are they?

x daz x

I have a body, I have thoughts. I can feel my body, my senses, I can be aware of my emotions, my thoughts. They are all mine, but they are not me. I have a car. I can drive it, smell it, touch it, think about it, experience various things through owning and using it, but it is not me.

My thoughts are mine. They belong to me. They are a product of the body I inhabit and experience. They are one more thing I experience. But I am not what I experience. Experiences are always changing, my thoughts and emotions come and go. but I do not. I am the awareness that is aware of all of this, that experiences it all.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by God-Like

So when you peel a banana and throw away the skin, the skin is no longer part of the the banana?

yes

Originally Posted by God-Like

From a perspective that there is only what you are, how can one separate one aspect from another?

Why would anybody believe there is only what I am? I am not my parents, not you, not my cats. I'm just this little awareness in this body. There are zillions of things that are not me.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

yes

Why is the banana skin no longer part of the banana just because it has been peeled .

The fruit and the skin is what makes the banana a banana ..

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Why would anybody believe there is only what I am? I am not my parents, not you, not my cats. I'm just this little awareness in this body. There are zillions of things that are not me.

As mentioned above one concludes what they do about themselves due to how they perceive themselves .

You have illustrated this yourself by saying you are just this little awareness in this body ..

How have you concluded this? By what means? Having a thought of oneself?

A thought that doesn't belong to you?



x daz x