Living in a 'double exposure' ?

[bluebird21]

Sure :) Mostly this has just been a deeply personal and intuitive process for me which began consciously in 2012. I studied the yoga sutras at an ashram and shopped around a bit but in the past few years have discovered I have a strong connection to Tibetan vajrayana Buddhism (tantric Buddhism.) This form of Buddhism is my outward path now and meditation being my main practice. Also, relationships with genuine teachers are very potent... <3 As you likely know.

How about you?

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

bluebird,

My experience would be - be amongst those whom know - these are spiritual secrets and realities that people who have not first hand experienced them would have no concept or imagination of what it even is. When you shift, your perception and consciousness fully shifts. I know there are many such moments of Gnosis that can open up. Be amongst Sangha, genuine teachers if you can. In the world of duality, relativity and ego, one has to be careful with what one shares because ego can never grasp or understand God or True Unconditional Love. This is why most mystics and Spiritual Masters speak in parables. It is like a secret language which only other mystics see - like responding to a mate's call in the Kingdom of Birds.

I guess I had always assumed that part of the problem is that those who think that way are 'lost' in the sense they are trying to preserve their own sense of being (by not rocking the boat and inviting attacks). This DESPITE the fact there are huge changes to the sense of being coming from following those paths, that most others who haven't been on the path would not be able to comprehend. Still, something hidden at the back of the mind keeps one out of certain terrain?

This is one of the reasons I didn't trust anyone with my own beingness. There was kind of an observation in my mind that, putting that kind of strong limitation on life wasn't working the way it was claimed it would work? And so if I got caught up in following others, how was I going to not make the same mistakes I saw being made?

not that it matters I guess.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by bluebird21

Sure :) Mostly this has just been a deeply personal and intuitive process for me which began consciously in 2012. I studied the yoga sutras at an ashram and shopped around a bit but in the past few years have discovered I have a strong connection to Tibetan vajrayana Buddhism (tantric Buddhism.) This form of Buddhism is my outward path now and meditation being my main practice. Also, relationships with genuine teachers are very potent... <3 As you likely know.

How about you?

Ahh I see, very interesting. Thank you.

My path is primarily Buddhism - cross tradition (as they are all the same in end result, just differ in methods/culture).

Yes relationships with genuine teachers are very potent, we are lucky if we find them although I do believe that if the student is sincere, they will find the right person.

BT

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

not that it matters I guess.

Why would it not matter, FallingLeaves? We all inquire, this is the fun of a forum! Exchange of sincere ideas! Fun cross debates As long as it's sincere, it's all good.

I guess I had always assumed that part of the problem is that those who think that way are 'lost' in the sense they are trying to preserve their own sense of being (by not rocking the boat and inviting attacks).

If I understand you correctly, FL, I don't personally think it is because they are trying to preserve their sense of being by not rocking the boat or inviting attacks.

Have you perchance noticed that many spiritual masters did talk - Rumi, Buddha etc - and I think maybe in the best way they could? It's just that it's not conceptual so they can't really point to something beyond words/duality maybe? (Words also can not adequately describe the experiences/realizations - nor should they stay only at the conceptual level - I think these are some other reasons?)

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

Still, something hidden at the back of the mind keeps one out of certain terrain?

Can you elaborate please? If I sense it correctly, I don't (personally) see it as keeping something hidden. It's like getting to Rome, what is the point of talking about it - the only point would be helping others reach the same destination. At that point, words are no longer needed?

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

This is one of the reasons I didn't trust anyone with my own beingness.

Yes I was also careful in the past with whom I trusted on these matters. Even though some teachers invited me with open arms or praised my insights, I didn't trust anyone who didn't know the Ultimate.

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

There was kind of an observation in my mind that, putting that kind of strong limitation on life wasn't working the way it was claimed it would work? And so if I got caught up in following others, how was I going to not make the same mistakes I saw being made?

Depends on what you mean by mistakes, FL. At the end of the day, for me, it's a spiritual practice so the goods are spiritual realization (genuine, authentic, ultimate level) - the rest is mundane. Not that it's separate, per se, but not that it is not either. If that makes sense.

Be well

BT

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by bluebird21

I want to share with you that liberation does not come from seeking to eliminate yourself but actually outrageously facing, feeling, allowing, and integrating ALL aspects of self, especially the ones that are the most seemingly horrific and painful. You must DIVE into the wound and see the Love that resides there. Liberation is the ultimate no escape from yourself. That's why it takes such immense courage and self honesty.

I especially was struck by what you said in red. Being someone that has experienced a lot of pain, the liberation can't begin to happen until one gets real with the wounds. As you put it "DIVE into the wound". Wise words, bluebird21.

[bluebird21]

Love you blackraven ❤️ I too have experienced an intense amount of pain in my life.

"The wound is where the Light enter you." -Rumi

I've heard awakening described as a destructive process, a washing away of EVERYTHING about you that is not true. You must let go of it all. It can be excruciatingly painful. And also quite disappointing (lol) when we realize the freedom we longed for so deeply from our pain is actually found in the very very center of it.

❤️

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

heehee shivatar

I don't think it's quite like that at all

I believe that what bluebird refers to is an intimately unifying and loving experience, not a separation or wanting herself to be gone

BT

congrats, we disagree yet again.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by bluebird21

"The wound is where the Light enter you." -Rumi

I've heard awakening described as a destructive process, a washing away of EVERYTHING about you that is not true. You must let go of it all. It can be excruciatingly painful. And also quite disappointing (lol) when we realize the freedom we longed for so deeply from our pain is actually found in the very very center of it.

❤️

My experience is it is not painful, it is joyous though of course we face our pains..

The freedom is peace that is beyond this world. When things are transformed and purified, there is exquisite peace.

BT

PS Love Rumi - reminds me of Leonard Cohen's song "There's a crack in everything. That's how the Light gets in". Self honest people can do this practice much better I believe.