Imagination vs lucid dream

Originally Posted by Athymari

I would not have known how to help others with it res.

I have been using this self-creating visualisation for over 20 years. I can sit and work whilst easily playing through alittle self-created story in my mind to entertain myself. Usually based on some TV series as a basis!

I think this inner visualisation is perceived just the same way as when you are looking through your eyes, when your not receving anything from the eyes ie asleep. Its all info that the brain process, but it can only normally 'see' one stream at a time. So one appear 'through' the eyes whilst the other stays in the mind.

For me, when awake and 'lucid daydreaming' (its always lucid for me, I am my own director and star :P) I see it exactly like I would when remembering something my eyes have seen. It is often very clear and detailed and I have often scared myself with it. My eyes do not see but my mind see its.

For example last night, I got up late evening and went into the bath room. I looked out the window and although my eyes saw nothing in my mind there was something rather wolven like stood at the window. Its face was pressed up and I could see the sharp point of its ears.

It was like i had looked, seen it with my eyes, looked away, forgot it, but when I looked back I saw the memory of what was there. but now wasnt.

I had to look at the window for while and was amazed by how real that (I think self created) image was.

I also had to laugh at myself. I told myself/imagination that although that what I expect to see in some horror movie (I dont watch horror anymore) it doesnt happen in this world and my eyes were not seeing it, some part of me was seeing this wolf image and i felt unnerved by it.

I have always done this internally. I wonder what would happen if I were to picture it outside of myself.

I can see that you are getting bits and pieces of your minds ability but the full picture is on its way if you keep seeking. Dont discount what you think you imagine like the wolf. There is a thread on here titled "wolves" that you might find interesting. If a part of one of the posts in that thread stands out to you, it may help answer why the wolf was visiting you. Sensing one at your window could actualy be a thought form to assist you in your progress. Dont fear the wolf and it is not out of the ordinary to sense a thought form around you. The stronger ones usually trigger the flight or flight response, which usually manifests as fear/adrenalin rush. I used to think that i was creating these presences with my imagination all my life too until i proved otherwise to myself.

Hello Athymari.

I very much appreciate your question..The culprit,,,Prime Suspect Numero Uno is always imagination.

One example.

I often think of Books are a bit like that... Middle Earth, the product of imagination was real and envisaged in the Minds eye of Tolkein.. The landscapes were set before us on the page so that in our minds we might occupy Middle Earth and witness the sights sounds and smells of the environment.

Another example... Meditation visions. They seem real enough but are possibly also the product of one's imagination.

I could go on.... Mediums...Are those Spirit voices in their heads..Imagination? It could be argued that it might kind of imagining.

Musical compositions...definately imagination...Inspired probably....but ultimatey imagined.

Imagination deserves,in my opinion, its place as being an attribute rather than a culprit. But don't take my word for it.

I am often drawn to one of my favourite quotes, which I feel shows imagination in it's true light.

"Thoughts have a higher dwelling place than the visible world, and its skies are not clouded by sensuality. Imagination finds a road to the realm of the gods, and there man can glimpse that which is to be after the souls' liberation from the world of substance."

Kahlil Gibran, 1883-1930

Which brings me nicely to an old thread of mine entitled.

Is your Imagination real ?

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17582

[Perfect Storm]

From how i see it, if i think about it then see it - its all my creation, if something pops in mid self-creation that surprises me, there is something to it!

Like once I was throwing a stone, I had intended for it to hit someone (just a small pebble to get there attention!) when instead a hand shot out from behind a wall to catch it.

Originally Posted by Athymari

From how i see it, if i think about it then see it - its all my creation, if something pops in mid self-creation that surprises me, there is something to it!

I can appreciate that this is your point of view and may i ask if you think it may possible that even before you think about something there has been a muse at work and the something you see (such as the wolf or hand behind the wall) was not created by your imagination but rather sensed by you and created by someone else? If a wolf passes away in a forest near you and walks to your window does your ego automatically assess that you created it and it is a product of your imagination?

Seems Neville and i are on the same wavelenght and that quote he added is so true for me and explains the creation of thought forms. When we put energy into creating a thought which starts in the imagination it gathers substance and form and then exists in the astral noetical plane, the plane of thoughts. If this thought form travels to you and you are sensitive to it you could interprete its form and your subconscious will spike and very gently superimpose its image to make it appear as part of your conscious reality. So you will not see it as physical form as your eyes are open and at the forefront but be able to make it out enough to say its a wolf or hand. On the other hand a thought form you have created could have just the same effect.

[Perfect Storm]

I understand what you mean. I have long beleived that something with enough thought power behind it can become real on some other 'place'.

Though I do not think most of my thoughts do this. I was more thinking it would happen with something like.. big hit movies.

Some of them maybe. I have on occasion been watching something on TV and after the show has finished I have felt that one of the people was IN the room with me. Sometimes I have felt like if I looked in the mirror I would see them and not me. This is the character, not the actor.

I figured that if many people watch the show there would be many people adding extra energy into it.

I had an experiement with these thought forms yesterday after reading this thread. I seemed to have some success. Not only did I see it in my mind but it started to alter slightly by itself. She/he even gave me a name to call him/her by. Something I was not going to do.

I created a human form, now she walks around as a black dog, no idea where the dog form came from! hehe. Just spoke her name in my mind and she appeared next to me on the floor just now - i didnt think about where she would appear of how....such a cute dog lol.

Originally Posted by Athymari

I had an experiement with these thought forms yesterday after reading this thread. I seemed to have some success. Not only did I see it in my mind but it started to alter slightly by itself. She/he even gave me a name to call him/her by. Something I was not going to do.

I created a human form, now she walks around as a black dog, no idea where the dog form came from! hehe. Just spoke her name in my mind and she appeared next to me on the floor just now - i didnt think about where she would appear of how....such a cute dog lol.

I am not sure that creating forms to accompany you in the physical world is the best way to utilise this and may be in your best interest to spend some time to fully understand what you are playing with before creating anymore. May be best to let this dog do its thing and not keep it around as an imaginary friend or anything.

I mentioned to you earlier that there are uses for this that can really benefit others. You may be suited to learning a healing art to make use of that visual focus talent you have. I found a great reiki master to guide me through understanding these matters better. You remind me of myself in my younger days having these experiences and spending so much time to catch up and understand what was happening to me.

[Perfect Storm]

To be honest - if this dog was a form and not just imaginary - I find it worrying as it seems to easy to create. I need some sort of evidence/proof that its not just in my head. If I beleive something then my brain will make it so. I need outside proof.

I originally made it to hold and be a conduit for healing energy and protective energy on myself and family, though I wouldnt say i put serious thought power into creating it in the first place.

I tried reiki and didnt really get anywhere with it. There is only so long I can hold my hands up without giving up whilst i feel that nothing is happeneing. Even knowning doesnt help there.

I liken it to writing in pen, whilst it appears there is no ink. Someone tells you to keep going as it working.

I released the dog by disapating her energy down into the ground to be 'renewed' so to speak.

Any idea what I can do?

It is easy for you to create and oberve something you created but that doesnt mean it has enough accumulated energy to effect others or even be recognisable by others.
What we are talking about here are matters dealt with in the highest levels of reiki and other modalities so if you havent learnt of level 3 matters that would explain why you hadnt found what you are looking for. It does feel like nothing is happening at times but putting in the hours and having the courage to ask the client what they are feeling and if you nailed your reading gives you confidence in the ability over time. Proving something to yourself can be a timely excercise especially if you are very analytical and skeptical as you should be. If anyone had of told me that i would experience the phenomenon i have to his point i would have laughted at them and said they were crazy.

My advice to you would be to keep looking, reading and learning. Dont follow anyone in a dogmatic fashion and extract the parts of anyones teaching that resonate with you in a positive way and are closest inline with your self proven experiences so far. I know you want the big answers now but sometimes you have to tread each stepping stone to make your way to the master at the end of the path. If you arrive without learning the language you will not be able to ask the right questions and have your queries answered.

It would be interesting to learn what stepping stones you have left behind so far .