Being saved.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by Sunshine111

So much pain and hurt underneath all this hatred and anger...

Sometimes, failures are not in fact and reality, failures.

Not sure if I understand this. How are failures not failures?

Prayer does not work/bring result in all cases due to that the result asked in prayer (what is prayed for) does not depend on God or the person praying to take place but, the person the prayer is said about who has the final say, makes the (final) choice and decision.

Well from my personal experience, prayer never brought any results at all, no matter the case. Whether it's about me or anyone else, no prayers are answered. God either isn't real, or he is just a psychopathic maniac.

For example, if a person decided and chose that they want to leave from this earth and physical realm, no God or angel can change their mind, this and convince them to stay and not leave.

Even if a choice is given to go back and person decided not to, the person cannot be sent back or return against their will by God.

It is their life, choice, decision about their own life and no prayer can change or prevent this.

Fair argument, but I'm very certain a huge amount of those people didn't look forward to dying. Not everyone believes that 'cute' little cherubs are awaiting them beyond the physical realm.

In this case, your prayer was and is listened to and certain invisible forces were and are at play as a result of it but, the final decision and say is of the person that life belongs to as responsible for their own life.

Apparently it wasn't listened to at all. And I'm not even talking about those who I lost, but about my own personal situation that keeps holding me down for years already. I'ts beginning to take a heavy toll on me, and meanwhile that lazy idiot who calls himself 'god' is sitting on his throne doing what exactly? Sleeping, or crying crocodile tears?

But, no God or prayer can stop or prevent or save a person who does not want to be saved and save their lives or force another who does not want to be in this life to continue being in the physical realm and this life.

The few people I prayed for (when I was still a believer) didn't look forward to death as I said. Every day, thousands of people die over the globe. I doubt literally each and everyone of them have chosen to die.

Just because another is praying or prayed for the opposite in this case, it does not work.

It just goes completely against the law of nature and free will, cause and effect.

There is a reason why for all that took place (and takes place).

The only possible reason I can think of is God being lazy, if there was any reason at all (which I also doubt).

Originally Posted by Jyotir

You may want to question the assumption that "god" and "comes from within" are mutually exclusive.

We recognize our predicament as self-conscious beings incarnated in an apparently ignorant cosmos (including ourselves as microcosm) which leads to the very idea that something has to evolve, transform...that we need saving from that ignorance and its manifestations.

But due to the predominant attributes of ego-mind (separative objective consciousness), we first seek that saving, we seek God outside of ourselves, which God compassionately responds to. This is why figure like Krishna, Buddha, Jesus descend to Earth as a response to human need and to demonstrate as example - that God is available to all. But not only that...

That God is within all, and actually IS all. But not only that and because of that...

That we are God and may realize this.

That is the ultimate 'saving'.

~ J

Enjoyed reading this.

[Little Creek77]

Wanting to be "Saved" means one wants to be parented. The need to be parented.

[Sunshine111]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Not sure if I understand this. How are failures not failures?



Well from my personal experience, prayer never brought any results at all, no matter the case. Whether it's about me or anyone else, no prayers are answered. God either isn't real, or he is just a psychopathic maniac.



Fair argument, but I'm very certain a huge amount of those people didn't look forward to dying. Not everyone believes that 'cute' little cherubs are awaiting them beyond the physical realm.



Apparently it wasn't listened to at all. And I'm not even talking about those who I lost, but about my own personal situation that keeps holding me down for years already. I'ts beginning to take a heavy toll on me, and meanwhile that lazy idiot who calls himself 'god' is sitting on his throne doing what exactly? Sleeping, or crying crocodile tears?



The few people I prayed for (when I was still a believer) didn't look forward to death as I said. Every day, thousands of people die over the globe. I doubt literally each and everyone of them have chosen to die.



The only possible reason I can think of is God being lazy, if there was any reason at all (which I also doubt).

Oh my, this must be one of the most difficult posts to respond up to now...

1. How are failures not failures.

When another takes on way too much responsibility (for things/matters)that does not belong to them and blame themselves (self-blame) when in fact and reality what had taken place (unfortunate event/experience/circumstances) was not their fault (not responsible for) and not to be blamed.

Many people that I have met and heard about their experiences consider this unfortunate event/experience/circumstances as A FAILURE and THEIR OWN FAILURE mostly because they also falsely believed that they could prevent what in fact and reality could not be prevented.

This is just an example of failures not constituting in fact and reality, failures.

2. Psychopathic maniac or maniacs are those who translated the Bible first and foremost in whichever way it suited their hidden psychopathic agendas , twisted words , lied about God or of what God said, took advantage of even the concept of God or God to serve their own selfish interests and literally spread the terror in others and created way too many psychological problems to them.

Blame psychopathic men turning into and perceiving themselves as Gods, acting as such and their own words presented as the words or "word of God", not God.

A story that keeps being repeated again and again throughout time and history through pseudo-gurus, pseudo-saints, pseudo-spirituals, pseudo-sages, pseudo-Gods etc. up to this time and will continue being repeated.

3. Nobody said "they were looking forward to die", where exactly have you found this?. Everybody is free to believe in whatever way they want as long as they do not impose their beliefs and force them to accept their beliefs as the overall truth for all and not bother or pester or abuse through this me and others.

I do not believe that "cute little cherubs" whatever these cherubs are, "are awaiting me beyond the physical realm.

4. Sorry to hear that "your personal situation is holding you down for years". Maybe you should forget bothering about God and investing your energy on hatred and hating God and instead of this, choose and turn to certain trustworthy people who can help you out with your situation. And, let them help you and give you a hand with it.

I did feel the same way once/a period of time , God just sitting up there doing nothing at all , while I am suffering on this earth and I am sorry you are absolutely exhausting and draining yourself from your energy this way as it is not just torturous , it is absolutely draining and exhausting as well.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by hallow

I am wondering why does it seem so important to feel like someone will save you?
Being god, or some religious figure.
I also wonder why some people seem to wait for or depend on someone to swoop in there lives and
save them when everything you need comes from within.

Just saw this thread.

I do not know...in fact, I didn't know that was a 'thing'.

[Ariaecheflame]

I would like to say that while the thought or desire to be 'saved' might be an illusion in itself and can create dynamics of codependency of many forms and reliance on external factors to feel saved and safe.
BUT
We are all creatures who rely on each other and we all do require support and guidance so that we can 'save ourselves' in a sense and stand on our own feet.

The big religions and even media advertising all feed on this desire to be saved from doing the inner work in some sense creating reliance rather then supporting the energy which fosters people to turn inwards.

The funniest thing is that many people's awakenings seemed to be sparked by an external expression of grace in order that they be able to be pointed towards the internal spirit. So, I can count the times an expression of grace has in a sense 'saved me' by pointing me towards my own spirit.

So perhaps some people are desiring to be met with an expression of grace so that they can heal the inner space and others are desiring to be saved from having to ever sit with pain and do the inner work, probably many can even relate to being on both sides of that coin. It seems to me sometimes that there is only so far one can go with the modern Christian idea of having a saviour and being saved by that saviour.... I feel as though the saviour was probably initially intended to be a guidepost to one's own path of salvation rather then it being a literal entity coming to save you but maybe I am both right and wrong in this thinking. Even if that is the path for me, I still required the support and grace from God to get me on the path to begin with.


I'm speaking as someone who was raised in such a church and whose paternal figure is waiting around for death for Jesus to reserect him, part of me thinks that is actually the exact reality which awaits him after death too because it aligns with his own needs and the beliefs of his heart..

Who am I to judge the methods of his heart anyway? We are not so different but our methods are.

I don't think that either side of the conversation are always particularly useful.
On one hand the 'self saviour' belief can be too self reliant often at the expense of connection and on the other hand the other way can he too "other" reliant at the expense of connection. Like everything, there is always a middle way.




Just some thoughts...

I am merely a person who ponders

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Just saw this thread.

I do not know...in fact, I didn't know that was a 'thing'.

This my sound negative, but it's not meant in a negative way. I fully believe in times of hardship, there's no time to cry, to blame others, to wait for someone to save you. One's actions speak louder than any words can. When you you get out of that situation then tears of joy are appropriate. Years ago I Hurd someone say. Hell is where you can't see god. Well you can't see God here. Some say he wants us to fail. Who knows, maybe he does. But my soul has never grown in times of bliss , comfort and happiness. One has to learn how to learn from failure. Yes I like being happy and full of bliss but it only lasts a short time.... If you're living life to the fullest. And yes it's a "thing" I can't get into detail on this because everyone is different and has there own story. A person really has to strip themselves down to nothing to see it for themselves.

[Altair]

All the mainstream religions preach this belief in 'saving', either through some other figure or through asceticism. But life is not to be seen as a *prison*, in my view. Anyone who's tired of it can of course believe this or that, or do this or that practice with the aim of achieving salvation or liberation, but this should rightly be seen as a niche and an individual matter..

Society at large does best to celebrate life and this world, so we are moved to improve living standards, create new medicine, and have a generally positive outlook about ourselves, our earth, our place in it, and the universe at large. In short, belief in salvation and desire to preach extreme asceticism is best kept to one's self.

Don't expect others are interested, and we certainly can't view anyone as ''better'' or ''more evolved'' because they happen to be interested in spirituality. Let everyone enjoy their lives. The main 'problem' I see is when people are violent to others or their actions lead to problems to everyone else, than it becomes a collective issue, but beyond that everyone should enjoy their desires and attachments to their heart's content, if they want!

The only thing mankind needs saving from is ignorance because everything else is just a false understanding.
Mankind has waisted so much time and effort on pointless things such as salvation.