Being saved.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I'm a trainer/asessor by trade and have spent most of that time either in mental health or working with long-term unemployed who perceived themselves as the 'bottom of the pile'. I never thought of myself as saving anyone, it was a job but that all changed when someone pointed out the differences I was making to people's Lives. While saving people can sound pretentious it can also help by framing things within a context and make sense of it all. It was taking people from what they perceived as the scrapheap of Life and changing their self perceptions for something more constructive, not just telling them that they were capable but having them believe that they had the potential and could do something with it.

I saw myself reflected in those people in so many ways because I had been there, it gave me empathy and sympathy for their predicaments at so many levels. For me this is the 'real' Spirituality, the deeper connections with myself and others and away from ideologies and theologies.

It takes a brave Soul to agree to despair and needing to be saved as a Life experience, if you believe in Life's Purpose or Karmic Obligations.

doesn't it feel good to help people! To see that "bottom of the pile" Excel. The people I care for did more for me both spiritually and physically then anyone ever had. Guess you can say they saved me in return. But that's a double edge sword for me. I can't help but to think. If they can do it why can't someone with better odds.

[Sunshine111]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

When someone has no chance (like being terminally ill or disabled) and is totally desperate, it's only natural that they turn their attention towards something higher. Not that any deity would help them in the first place, but powerlessness is unfortunately a real thing.

Very well said Slayer! Very enlightening post!

I absolutely agree with this. I will add that feelings of powerlessness lead nothing but to despair, hopelessness, depression even suicidal thoughts the least.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Personality is an aspect of mind so that's body-mind identification. My experience is the real power of meditation is the experience of a definite separation between awareness and body-mind. Two distinct entities. One (body-mind) is a unique entity and the product of genetics and a lifetime of experience and some would even say attributes from past lives. The other (awareness) is the all-pervasive field of awareness that is the fundamental and foundational nature of existence and is accessible to body-mind.

Identification with awareness in its purest form and without an iota of doubt is identification with everyone and everything, even cross time. Unity. Oneness.

I suppose that's what awareness means to you, but to me it can mean a variety of things, however, this whole oneness/unity stuff ain't one of them. While I do believe in some aspects of it from a scientific point of view, never in octillion years will I identify myself with other humans in a spiritual sense. I just despise humanity too much for that.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by Sunshine111

Very well said Slayer! Very enlightening post!

I absolutely agree with this. I will add that feelings of powerlessness lead nothing but to despair, hopelessness, depression even suicidal thoughts the least.

Which is also the reason why I'll never ever in my whole life say a single prayer again. Not for myself, and not even for my closest friends. Being powerless is an unchangable condition, and no God is ever going to lift their finger to offer any help.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by hallow

I know very well what your saying but because of my job I see people like you mentioned do some wonderful things. Most don't really understand who religious figures are. But with some help they buy there own will succeed. Just recently there was there was a lady of right mind who was terminally ill she was in rough shape. Then seemingly out of nowhere she started to walk, do more for herself and improve. She will be going home soon. You know why? She simply got sick of being there. She was done with it and wanted to go home. That's what I mean what you need is already there. Sometimes you just have to dig for it. She didn't do it alone she got help, but she saved herself.

Was she really terminally ill in that case? Hate to break it to you, but if it was cancer then you can be sure that she'll never be cured from it. I know people who were terminally ill and seemed to improve, only for the same sh#t to return and hit them even harder than before, which is literally always fatal. You simply can't save yourself from something like this.

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

While I do believe in some aspects of it from a scientific point of view, never in octillion years will I identify myself with other humans in a spiritual sense. I just despise humanity too much for that.

This is where I'm coming from.

There's an aspect of us beyond body and beyond mind. It's that deep state of consciousness (awareness) where there's only absolute stillness and absolute serenity. In actuality it's not really an aspect of us, it is us. The real "I" and every other aspect is the unreal "I". The real "I" deep down in all of us is one in the same. The superficial and unreal "I" is unique and the one that suffers and causes suffering.

Recognizing the real "I" within brings recognition of the real "I" within everyone and everything. If that happens one can't help but feel loving-kindness and compassion for the unreal "I"s, all of them including one's own unreal "I".

But I do understand exactly what you're saying.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by hallow

I am wondering why does it seem so important to feel like someone will save you? Being god, or some religious figure. I also wonder why some people seem to wait for or depend on someone to swoop in there lives and save them when everything you need comes from within.

It isn't important at all. It's just imagination in people's heads, a desire to be watched over, to be ''saved'' from a dangerous world that contains hostile humans, diseases, earthquakes, and what not. We have to face reality instead of telling ourselves fancy stories. This way we can take action and improve ourselves. The same is true for spirituality in general. Take up the practice(s), drop all the drama and hysteria.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Was she really terminally ill in that case? Hate to break it to you, but if it was cancer then you can be sure that she'll never be cured from it. I know people who were terminally ill and seemed to improve, only for the same sh#t to return and hit them even harder than before, which is literally always fatal. You simply can't save yourself from something like this.

it wasn't cancer. It was something else. But the point here is if you're not willing to save yourself. The people who are willing to help you are wasting there time. Bottom line is you wanna save yourself. Saving yourself doesn't mean doing it alone.

[Harmony1007]

Originally Posted by Altair

It isn't important at all. It's just imagination in people's heads, a desire to be watched over, to be ''saved'' from a dangerous world that contains hostile humans, diseases, earthquakes, and what not. We have to face reality instead of telling ourselves fancy stories. This way we can take action and improve ourselves. The same is true for spirituality in general. Take up the practice(s), drop all the drama and hysteria.

This is the best analysis I’ve read that I can relate to, having ‘awakened’ just this summer. Trying to explain to family how I see everything differently now & don’t have ‘the fear’ everyday has been hard to put into words.

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by hallow

I am wondering why does it seem so important to feel like someone will save you? Being god, or some religious figure. I also wonder why some people seem to wait for or depend on someone to swoop in there lives and save them when everything you need comes from within.

You may want to question the assumption that "god" and "comes from within" are mutually exclusive.

We recognize our predicament as self-conscious beings incarnated in an apparently ignorant cosmos (including ourselves as microcosm) which leads to the very idea that something has to evolve, transform...that we need saving from that ignorance and its manifestations.

But due to the predominant attributes of ego-mind (separative objective consciousness), we first seek that saving, we seek God outside of ourselves, which God compassionately responds to. This is why figure like Krishna, Buddha, Jesus descend to Earth as a response to human need and to demonstrate as example - that God is available to all. But not only that...

That God is within all, and actually IS all. But not only that and because of that...

That we are God and may realize this.

That is the ultimate 'saving'.

~ J