Is nirvana the end of journey?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by starnight1

Yes i understand the levels, we r actually more than 7 chakras...

so , we came from Dao/ Raw emptiness and we will go back to the same Raw emptiness?
and then?
will the Raw emptiness start to expand into shakti and start a new universe again?

The Dao is really all that is. It is becoming a World Buddha that one creates a stable bubble or universe with all of countless dimensions.

You see even a Buddha still has a I part of him. Giving up that last part he returns to the source. The Dao is all that is and does not expand or contract.

Here is a discription of primordial emptiness:


Primordial emptiness is like a bubbling sea of nothingness, brimming with potential. It can be most easily described in the realization of three components, but each of the component is inseparable. These components are Void, motion (or energy) and potential.

The void is empty with no activity at all. Nothing to perceive and nothing to sense. Like a totally dead sea with no motion. The nature of void can be found going deeper and deeper into meditation. The is a common goal in many traditions. But, it is beyond senses, lights or astral visions. All activity in mind (or universal mind) is dropped such that nothing is left. All perception is gone, such that the mind is still and for all practical purposes, one and everything "ceases".

When the nothingness of void "moves" or changes state, one has "energy". Energy has no true substance as it is only the motion of void, but it gives rise to something to be "perceived". In it's emergence, energy can be guided by "intent". First energy is noticed on a subconscious level, but with greater realization, it can be guided and affected. First in one's body, and later as greater mental obstructions are cleared on a universal level.

When one has fully realized the void and one experiences energy 24/7 in a conscious (controlled) manner, one integrates the two and can notice the "potential". The potential is the pristine clarity (or light) of the void. Or in more modern terms, it is the structure or raw building stuff of mind/universal mind. All that exists or potentially can exist is a transmission of this pristine clarity/light.

When one fully realizes these three components as integrated and inseparable, they have realized ultimate emptiness. One "sees behind" the curtain (of mind) and becomes stabilized in the primordial sea.

Ultimately, void is nothingness, energy is the motion of nothingness, clarity (or light) is the realization of the potential of it all that can be guided by intent.

http://community.livingunbound.net/i...ss-what-is-it/

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

"Average people, blind with the cataracts of dimwittedness, not only have a heap of defiled, perverted behavior, but even produce proofs and charts about it, and present it as wonderful subject matter."

(from Dancing Moon in the Water, Jigme Lingpa)

I have found that people do tend to worry about levels and stages of attainment and that it can become an attachment.

I tend to only talk about things I have experienced or help others experience.

All the best,

Tom

[RyanWind]

Some people discover something on their own, like Jesus or Buddha, then they seek to tell others about it in pretty simple ways really. Then these people die, and religions are created and become basically businesses. People discover they can earn a living being "religious' teachers, priests religious writers etc. So they build churches and temples, they convince others they are more spiritual than others to get them to donate and join their groups and buy their books, look up to them as authorities etc. They write more and more books "explaining" what the founders really were trying to say and add more and more "spiritual knowledge" to whatever the founders said. Join us and donate 10% of your wages to us! It will make you more spiritual! I will teach you knowledge or give you practices to make you more spiritual!

Religions, of course, offer more than knowledge they have invented. They offer community, a sense of belonging, also they stroke people's egos by making them feel like they are spiritual. So over thousands of years, these groups become intertwined with countries and families and humans are conditioned to believe they belong to one group or another.

So what started with one person discovering something while not being a part of any religion, that was about self inquiry and self awareness, becomes this whole other thing about teachers and authorities, about knowledge and practices, about groups and organized religion. There's a huge difference between the knowledge/message a founder said and the huge body of complex dogma people that came after added to that.

[sky]

Is considered one of the traits of the Buddha’s teachings, that you can see for yourself. *All beings are welcome*to put them to the test and see for themselves.

No miracles. *No divine messengers. *No text written in stone.

No coercion, No fanaticism,
No bigotry.


I think this word is important/helpfull for people who are studying or thinking of studying Buddhism...

[jonesboy]

Jesus was a guru that went around healing people and brought his students to the same levels of realization so that they could also help others.

There are many stories of the Buddha performing siddhis and it was his guru ability to help others that was responsible for the growth of Buddhism. Transmissions are an important part of all of the traditions within Buddhism.

Working with a real guru is a blessing.

I would agree that in some paths the church has taken over the intent and wisdom of the guru. Gurus are hard to find but learning from there teachings and depth of insight is called wisdom. To think you know better and to refuse to learn that which is known is called ignorance.

I would also like ask that you two stay on topic. There is an entire thread of you two already talking about not needing teachers and using quotes from success and wellness sites to prove your points.

That is not what this thread is about.

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I would also like ask that you two stay on topic.

The topic is if nirvana is the end of the journey. Your post is all about levels of consciousness or dogma that came after Buddha's teachings. The goal is nirvana not memory based knowledge. Experience not concepts. Nirvana is an advanced state of consciousness, but obviously one continues to exist for eternity so the journey continues. It just continues with a transformed consciousness. Your basic answer to the topics question seems to be: No nirvana is not the end.... we must add depth based on these teachings that did not come from Buddha. That right?

By the way, trying to tell others what to post or what the right opinion is, is not on topic!

[sky]

Originally Posted by*jonesboy

I would also like ask that you two stay on topic.


Is that the dreaded ego speaking

Practise what one preaches comes to mind.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

The topic is if nirvana is the end of the journey. Your post is all about levels of consciousness or dogma that came after Buddha's teachings. The goal is nirvana not memory based knowledge. Experience not concepts. Nirvana is an advanced state of consciousness, but obviously one continues to exist for eternity so the journey continues. It just continues with a transformed consciousness. Your basic answer to the topics question seems to be: No nirvana is not the end.... we must add depth based on these teaching that did not come from Buddha. That right?

By the way, trying to tell others what to post or what the right opinion is, is not on topic!

I am sharing the Buddhas teachings.

Do you not understand what the difference between Hinduism and Buddhism is? I am sharing it with you.

This is the heart of the largest practiced Buddhist tradition Mahayana, which is a part of your tradition Zen :)

I am also sharing with you many teachers experience as well as my one. I shared with you emptiness and you said there was many different types of emptiness :)

This is Buddhism and the path to being a Buddha and then returning to Nirvan.

Buddhist tradition distinguishes between nirvana in this lifetime and nirvana after death. In "nirvana-in-this-lifetime" physical life continues, but with a state of mind that is free from negative mental states, peaceful, happy, and non-reactive. With "nirvana-after-death", paranirvana, the last remains of physical life vanish, and no further rebirth takes place.

Nirvana is the highest aim of the Theravada-tradition. In the Mahayana tradition, the highest goal is Buddhahood, in which there is no abiding in Nirvana, but a Buddha re-enters the world to work for the salvation of all sentient beings.

...The Mahayana (Great Vehicle) tradition envisions an attainment beyond nirvana, namely Buddhahood.[quote 21][note 14] The Hinayana path only leads to one's own liberation, either as sravaka (listener, hearer, or disciple) or as pratyeka-buddha (solitary realizer).[note 15] The Mahayana path aims at a further realization, namely Buddhahood or nonabiding (apratiṣṭhita) nirvana. A Buddha does not dwell in nirvana, but engages actively in enlightened activity to liberate beings for as long as samsara remains.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(Buddhism)

That is exactly what I have been sharing.

[running]

Originally Posted by django

Sure, here you go, running this is a reminder to stay away from critics like Jigme, because critical thought is a total waste of time to you.

Thanks. Im personaly here for energetic growth and being myself. Most critics that speak like that are typically up tight stiffs from what i have seen. At some point its been my experience to see the beauty in the diversity of human personality and behavior. And much of all that criticism goes into the recycling bin.

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I am sharing the Buddhas teachings.

Not really. You are sharing stuff that people who were born way after Buddha taught. You are teaching stuff from particular Buddhist groups, not from Buddha himself. For example, your "rainbow body" stuff. That is a Tibetan Buddhist concept. The idea is from Dzogchen not Buddha. The idea of a "rainbow body" evolved over several centuries as the belief changed and evolved. It is now part of Vajrayana Buddhism belief. Vajrayana was founded by Indian Mahasiddhas, not Buddha. They subscribe to Buddhist tantric literature.

One person who claimed to have seen the rainbow body was mentioned in a Kunzang Nyingtic Dzogchen meditation manual, the eyewitness described it as "rainbows appearing in the sky at death." Buddha's teachings came from Buddha, not others. But yea you are sharing beliefs from different Buddhist groups. The “rainbow body,” belief is that corpses of highly developed spiritual individuals vanish within days of death. It's similar to the concept of Jesus's body disappearing. I don't think there is any mention of Buddha having a "rainbow body" because the belief came long after Buddha's death. In fact, some early Buddhist texts state that Buddha was cremated.