I'm Not My Mind

Originally Posted by iamthat

I'm currently reading David Godman's three volume biography of Poonjaji (Papaji). The other day I read the following statement by Poonjaji describing his state after meeting Ramana Maharshi:

In the first few months after this visit I didn't have a single thought. I could go to the office and perform all my duties without ever having a thought in my head. It was the same when I went to Tiruvannamalai. Whether I was sitting in the hall with the Maharshi, walking around the mountain or shopping in town, everything I did was performed without any mental activity at all. There was an ocean of inner silence that never gave rise to even a ripple of thought. It did not take me long to realise that a mind and thoughts are not necessary to function in the world. When one abides as the Self, some divine power takes charge of one's life. All actions then take place spontaneously, and are performed very efficiently, without any mental effort or activity.

These books are well worth reading.

Peace

Don't forget this part of my post.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

My answer is yes, of course. Mind is on one 'side' of time, space and causation, Awareness on the other 'side'. Both coexist simultaneously, however Awareness can exist without mind but mind cannot exist without Awareness.

Unless I have something going on that does require thinking I can honestly say my mind is, for all practical purposes, quiet. I'm 'resting in awareness', much like when I practice that meditation technique.

Something else I notice or experience, if you will. I can also be in a state where mere wisps or ghosts of fragmentary thoughts arise and subside almost as fast as they arise. They have no impact on what I'm doing or how I identify which is seemingly coming from the space of awareness. So they are not distracting or directing, just another form passing through the field of awareness, much like a cloud in the sky passes.

It's only because of meditation practice that I notice the ghostly wisps of thought, else they would fly right under the radar. Actually that's not exactly true. It is, but at the same time it isn't. If I didn't have a substantial investment of time in meditation practice they would gather more 'energy', become more substantial, trigger additional thoughts and be directive and/or lead to reaction, but I'd never notice them at their 'birth'. This has to be the result of the practice carrying over into everyday life outside of practice. After all meditation isn't the practice, but the resulting state of mind. Practice enough and it becomes second-nature, so to speak.

I can definitely relate to the snippet about Godman. I can't look into his exact experience but if accurate I'm not quite there but not too far off, at least some of the time. I might have been there for several weeks after my awakening/realization experience, but that's somewhat subsided in intensity.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by jay.kishan

Sir, How do you differentiate between positive and negative thoughts ? Say that thoughts which are NOT from the conditioned mind ?

We have a HUMAN MIND which has evolved for years and the conditioning is of million years, so subtle, yet functioning in our daily life.

The motive, even to become more Aware or become more conscious and all the rest of it, comes from the same conditioning that i should not be THIS, and i should BE more AWARE, which is the desire out of past conditioning. How are you free then ?

When you see the total structure of thought, which needs awareness, you would realize that there is absolute NO POINT in controlling thought, BECAUSE ALL OF IT IS COMPLETE WASTE OF ENERGY. or commanding. because IT IS JUST A THOUGHT hence, it looses its power

Hello Jay, that is in excellent question. You differentiate positive and negative thoughts and feelings by stilling your ego and easing your brain while you accept/identify with the good and reject all the negative/bad thoughts and feelings starting to question everything and everybody while using logic, reason and common sense that your monkey brain is capable of doing. I will use your statement that the mind has been conditioned for millions of years as an example:
I was not alive for millions of years, so I do not have millions of years of conditioning. Yes my monkey brain has evolved over millions of years, and my monkey brain has picked up some self and spiritual sabotaging and rejecting habits over that amounts of time, but I will overcome those monkey brain habits and time is an illusion of the measurement of movement of the earth rotating around the sun.

You should be able to tell the difference between the positive and the negative. My conditioning was so bad, when I started, I had to catch and reject most of my negative thoughts and beliefs after I had them. Negative thoughts and feelings comes straight from your beliefs, mindset, and from your view and perception of the world, your environment, surroundings, etc etc, this is why your environment/surroundings triggers your negative thoughts and feelings. Negative thoughts and feelings include but are not limited to feeling tired, feeling lazy, fear, guilt, sympathy, empathy, competition, thinking people are not inherently good, thinking people are bad or evil, making judgments about anything, including judging people, etc etc. Positive thoughts and feelings come from your positive beliefs and from our creator through intuition. You will not recieve negative thoughts or feelings from our creator through intuition.

[jay.kishan]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Hello Jay, that is in excellent question. You differentiate positive and negative thoughts and feelings by stilling your ego and easing your brain while you accept/identify with the good and reject all the negative/bad thoughts and feelings starting to question everything and everybody while using logic, reason and common sense that your monkey brain is capable of doing. I will use your statement that the mind has been conditioned for millions of years as an example:
I was not alive for millions of years, so I do not have millions of years of conditioning. Yes my monkey brain has evolved over millions of years, and my monkey brain has picked up some self and spiritual sabotaging and rejecting habits over that amounts of time, but I will overcome those monkey brain habits and time is an illusion of the measurement of movement of the earth rotating around the sun.

You should be able to tell the difference between the positive and the negative. My conditioning was so bad, when I started, I had to catch and reject most of my negative thoughts and beliefs after I had them. Negative thoughts and feelings comes straight from your beliefs, mindset, and from your view and perception of the world, your environment, surroundings, etc etc, this is why your environment/surroundings triggers your negative thoughts and feelings. Negative thoughts and feelings include but are not limited to feeling tired, feeling lazy, fear, guilt, sympathy, empathy, competition, thinking people are not inherently good, thinking people are bad or evil, making judgments about anything, including judging people, etc etc. Positive thoughts and feelings come from your positive beliefs and from our creator through intuition. You will not recieve negative thoughts or feelings from our creator through intuition.

Good and Bad ? Like and Dislike !

Your thought is entirely your creation.. what is then good and what is bad ? You yourself tell your brain a story (thought) and then identify it as negative and then you fight it ? Do you realize what you are avtually doing ? Fighting the villain YOU created ? Even if you win. Whom did you win from ��? And sometimes you identify it is as positive and you think i am becoming more positive and hence this strengthens the ego further.

Good thought or bad thought. Both are the sides of the same coin. Find out what thought is in itself. Maybe youll get rid of positive and negative.

This i have a very small 3 minute video. Youll understand my point

https://youtu.be/CmVQuiT0OTw

[jay.kishan]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Interesting. I just noticed there's a difference between that site and the book.

On the site that speech begins:

"The one question that is most difficult to grasp in understanding the Advaita philosophy, and the one question that will be asked again and again and that will always remain is: How has the Infinite, the Absolute, become the finite?"

And in the book that speech begins:

"The one question that is most difficult to grasp in understanding the Advaita philosophy, and the one question that will be asked again and again and that will always remain unanswered: How has the Infinite, the Absolute, become the finite?"

Probably just an issue of translation and the site translation using 'is' in regards to the question does imply "unanswered" since the question will always remain it will always be unanswered. That is if it is ever answered there is no more question.

Back to the heart (I think?) of your original inquiry: "Can a thought arise in total awareness ? In a mind which has realized the place of thought and how illusory it is ?"

My answer is yes, of course. Mind is on one 'side' of time, space and causation, Awareness on the other 'side'. Both coexist simultaneously, however Awareness can exist without mind but mind cannot exist without Awareness. All maya is within awareness and that includes thoughts. Now one can debate whether the side "below" time, space and causality can coexist with the side "above" because of the unreal or illusion label attached, however I would use "limited" instead. That is the side "above" is unlimited by time, space and causation. It's the Infinite. The Vast. The Absolute. The side below is the finite. The transient. Limited by time, space and causation.

Thoughts always arise, exist and subside in total Awareness. It cannot be otherwise. The only question is whether one is aware or unaware of their true nature and relationship.

Sir you took my point wrong. I sm not saying that thought wont arise in total awareness i would say thoughts arise in awareness.

The point i was trying to make is that the mind which has realized the root of thought and time would not bother about thoughts anymore. Positive or negative, because its just a thought.

You absolutely need thought to function in daily life. To do your job to study, to even go home e.t.c
But this is the place of a thought . This is where it is used. It will still arise but you know from where it belongs and how seriously to take it. ( IF you feel the need to take it seriously at all)

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by jay.kishan

Good and Bad ? Like and Dislike !

Your thought is entirely your creation.. what is then good and what is bad ? You yourself tell your brain a story (thought) and then identify it as negative and then you fight it ? And sometimes you identify it is as positive and you think i am becoming more positive and hence this strengthens the ego further.

Good thought or bad thought. Both are the sides of the same coin. Find out what thought is in itself. Maybe youll get rid of positive and negative.

This i have a very small 3 minute video. Youll understand my point

https://youtu.be/CmVQuiT0OTw

I know what you are saying, that is why you need to train your monkey brain to have a balanced ego-mind-body with intuition. And you need train your ego-mind thoughts and wants to match your desires.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by jay.kishan

Sir you took my point wrong. I sm not saying that thought wont arise in total awareness i would say thoughts arise in awareness.

The point i was trying to make is that the mind which has realized the root of thought and time would not bother about thoughts anymore. Positive or negative, because its just a thought.

You absolutely need thought to function in daily life. To do your job to study, to even go home e.t.c
But this is the place of a thought . This is where it is used. It will still arise but you know from where it belongs and how seriously to take it. ( IF you feel the need to take it seriously at all)

It all comes down to what you think the purpose of life is. I think the purpose of life is for our creator to express itself. Not having thoughts, including good thoughts, prevents our creator, through us from expressing itself.

[jay.kishan]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I know what you are saying, that is why you need to train your monkey brain to have a balanced ego-mind-body with intuition. And you need train your ego-mind thoughts and wants to match your desires.

One cant train the mind/ego-mind and all of it through time. That i will be BECOME this in time. Or ill train this in time. Because time is thought. And the cycle of improving and becoming will.mever stop.

When investigate for your self what thought is. Observe it. Youll bring the change in no time.

Just like you see a danger on the road and you run immediately out of intelligence and without a thought
. Same would happen. If you see the total structure of thought, you will run from out out of intelligence because you SEE the danger and you run.

I would suggest you to listen to J Krishnamurti if you ever feel like.

I think we are going in different directions.
Because i know, i started my journey with this only. Positive thinking and suppressing negative and being positive all day. It works for a while but then you need to transcend the thought itself. By observing. Not by any action in time .

But i can be wrong. I dont know :)
It was nice to debate .

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

It all comes down to what you think the purpose of life is. I think the purpose of life is for our creator to express itself. Not having thoughts, including good thoughts, prevents our creator, through us from expressing itself.

To express yourself as our creator in physical form, you need a ego-mind that is balanced with intuition while useing logic, reason and common sense.

[jay.kishan]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

To express yourself as our creator in physical form, you need a ego-mind that is balanced with intuition while useing logic, reason and common sense.

To express yourself as creator WE have to do stuff ?

Or do we have to get out of the way for the creator to express itself through you ?

Do we need to express ourselves as creator ? Why ? Or will creator express himself .

Do you think creator needs the balancing of mind ? :p or ego mind. To express itself .

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by jay.kishan

One cant train the mind/ego-mind and all of it through time. That i will be BECOME this in time. Or ill train this in time. Because time is thought. And the cycle of improving and becoming will.mever stop.

When investigate for your self what thought is. Observe it. Youll bring the change in no time.

Just like you see a danger on the road and you run immediately out of intelligence and without a thought
. Same would happen. If you see the total structure of thought, you will run from out out of intelligence because you SEE the danger and you run.

I would suggest you to listen to J Krishnamurti if you ever feel like.

I think we are going in different directions.
Because i know, i started my journey with this only. Positive thinking and suppressing negative and being positive all day. It works for a while but then you need to transcend the thought itself. By observing. Not by any action in time .

But i can be wrong. I dont know :)
It was nice to debate .

I started out by reading J. Krishnamurti. I think Krishnamurti knew what I talked about and Krishnamurti's teachings lead me to where I am at now. Krishnamurti told us not to think in terms of bad or good for us to bypass our intellectual ego's conditioning so we will find the truth ourselves. I am sure Krishnamurti told us not to think in terms of bad or good because I am sure Krishnamurti knew that all the bad and negative are illusions and good is only real/the truth. suppressing the negative is ignoring the negative. I do not ignore the negative, I prevent the negative from happening in the first place.