Enlightenment

[Starman]

Thank you Moonglow, very beautiful.

[baro-san]

"Labels" means associating words to something. If we associate the same label to different things, we can't communicate and can't progress.

In the original post of this thread, its author expressed his opinions about enlightenment. They're fundamentally different from what I know people call Enlightenment, in the confines of a spiritual discussion.

This New Age-ish approach where everybody is enlightened, where no one enlightened would call themselves enlightened from modesty, within an ideal duality, is counterproductive to one's spiritual progress. Why? Because Enlightenment isn't a gradual thing, but it isn't until it is. Whoever is enlightened knows it for sure, and they manifest no false modesty by not sharing that. For an enlightened one there's no duality.

When you title a thread "Enlightenment" to talk about something else, is like I'd start a thread "Jesus" to talk about my auto mechanic (whose name is Jesus indeed).

[naturesflow]

..............

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Starman

Back in the 1970’s my then spiritual teacher (guru) used to say to the group whom he was sharing with, “don’t get caught in the words which I am saying, just get the gist of what I’ve said.” We are using words to talk about that which transcends words. The mind will analyze while the heart synthesizes.

I was really not talking about a series of things in my post; actually I was talking about one thing. It is my experience that what I call “divine light” is all around us, permeates us, is inside of us, and all of creation is but an image; a reflection of that light. It is one thing. When I bring my own light to the surface and allow myself to bathe in its intoxicating sweetness there are no words, no labels or designations.

If you need to bring your own light to the surface, does that mean you don't feel yourself complete as mind/body/spirit light as one ? Why wouldn't the sweetness of being all this, be felt as you without any arising of light in the way your perceiving for you? Why is your light not just being itself as light? If your aware of light arising and your depth of experience can go deeper into itself as this more complete, then any arising, is just a pointer to something more your aware of, but only in limited use of it.

In my bias opinion an enlightened person would never say that they are enlightened; and I am not saying this to appear to be enlightened. I just don’t care to apply labels to myself; we have enough labels as is, i.e. our names, gender, nationality, race, etc., etc., etc., and so, and so forth. Some people like that stuff, they seek out titles. I am trying to discard all of my titles and labels, so why would I want to say I am enlightened an bring on that kind of responsibility?

As the one noticing all as you shared in your OP, why would you be even noticing and giving enlightenment its own thread if your not attached to labels as such? You did say. "I am not enlightened" To me you see it as something all the same in your OP. You have described it as you did as being there, existing to you, yet if your not attached to labels then would you even see it as being something? That was where my initial feeling of contradiction noticing was coming from.

Life is a paradox, especially human life, it is a contradiction in my experience. I believe the contradiction is all part of the dual nature of creation; on one hand we are all enlightened and it might be said that we are playing tag with the shadow and light. You are attempting to use logic to understand that which transcends logic. I often have said that God is unreasonable; because human reasoning will only take us so far. Mainstream humanity is just now beginning to get a glimmer into emotional intelligence and even much less into intuitive knowledge.

So you see no ending to your dual nature through letting go of all labels and being you from a more complete state of being? I am just stating what I see as you the one conveying and showing of your meaning and you as one source in the OP.

I try to carry my words very lightly and endeavor not to get caught in the words of others. It’s a work in progress. Most of the time when I post I am in a meditative state, very quiet inside, trying to share a feeling, a presence and not just words. Words are codes for other things. The English language is one code, the Spanish language is another code. There are no words in some languages for words said in other languages.

You said: "I think this topic is all in your mind because if awareness was speaking of itself being this, it would speak as it is aware."

Yes, that is true according our human definition of awareness, but what we call "being aware" is just another level of unconsciousness, else there would be no need to acquire even more awareness, go to new levels in infinite expansion of awareness, etc.

[It Is]

^ Your're putting up some strong arguments there Naturesflow

@ Starman,

Some speak of a permanent "realization" where the bliss of knowing true nature doesn't fade - unless you chose.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by It Is

^ Your're putting up some strong arguments there Naturesflow

I just look and notice things and ask. I cant help myself if I see things and need to ask ..

@ Starman,

Some speak of a permanent "realization" where the bliss of knowing true nature doesn't fade - unless you chose.

Yes this is true.

I tend to take the realization of myself as deep as being it through each process, so when people are not noticing themselves in all the words and continue to use their mind to determine everything, my sense is they are not going deeper to feel and articulate themselves more as the very thing they are giving meaning too through the use of external means.

[Shivani Devi]

In my wholly personal view, I go by definition #3:

3. Buddhism & Hinduism A state in which the individual transcends desire and suffering and attains nirvana."

'Enlightenment' means different things to different people, which can range from being happy and content with the simple pleasures of life to full-on Nirvikalpa Samadhi. It depends on the person, their beliefs and values and what they have read and it seems that to many, all they have to do is believe they are enlightened and they are...like magic it is!

Also, according to what you believe and what school you go to, enlightenment can be anything from a gradual process that never ends over countless lifetimes, to once it happens, there's nothing after it and one attains moksha or liberation from the cycle of birth and death.

There is also no way to tell if another person is enlightened - they can be as mad as a meataxe or a very clever actor and trickster, fooling others into believing they are for whatever agenda and reasons they have. Thus, to some who reach that state, they prefer just to remain in it, do their own thing and let everybody else just do theirs without getting involved in the world or human affairs whatsoever and the Himalayan Sadhus are a good example of it.

They don't seek to 'lift up' or 'put down' because they have transcended all that. They have gone beyond caring really, because everything is how it was meant to be and they focus on attaining personal and individual transcendence which is totally free from any karmic attachment whatsoever.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

In my wholly personal view, I go by definition #3:



'Enlightenment' means different things to different people, which can range from being happy and content with the simple pleasures of life to full-on Nirvikalpa Samadhi. It depends on the person, their beliefs and values and what they have read and it seems that to many, all they have to do is believe they are enlightened and they are...like magic it is!

Also, according to what you believe and what school you go to, enlightenment can be anything from a gradual process that never ends over countless lifetimes, to once it happens, there's nothing after it and one attains moksha or liberation from the cycle of birth and death.

There is also no way to tell if another person is enlightened - they can be as mad as a meataxe or a very clever actor and trickster, fooling others into believing they are for whatever agenda and reasons they have. Thus, to some who reach that state, they prefer just to remain in it, do their own thing and let everybody else just do theirs without getting involved in the world or human affairs whatsoever and the Himalayan Sadhus are a good example of it.

They don't seek to 'lift up' or 'put down' because they have transcended all that. They have gone beyond caring really, because everything is how it was meant to be and they focus on attaining personal and individual transcendence which is totally free from any karmic attachment whatsoever.

That was informative to read, thanksyou. x

[Miss Hepburn]

Hmm, curious, Starman, I couldn't send you a pm...any way to change that?
Wanted to ask you a question not necessarily for everyone.
Maybe if you pm me...I could reply back that way? I dunno. Thanks.
Hmm, could it have been disabled?

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by It Is

Some speak of a permanent "realization" where the bliss of
knowing true nature doesn't fade - unless you chose.

"...unless you chose", ah yes, made me chuckle, thanks....yeah, like holding a candle close to your chest
trying not to let any breeze blow it out...
Or like living your life holding sand in your hand...oh brother.
It comes back, it goes away, it slips in, it slips out...it suddenly comes
from out of the blue and fades away like drifting fog...the Illusive Butterfly...
the Cosmic Carrot dangled ...have to give up everything to receive it all...
To receive it you can't want it...but you have to want it to even get close to it...
Gotta love the spiritual Path!