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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Hinduism

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  #1  
Old 13-08-2017, 03:14 PM
AlwaysDayAfterYesterday AlwaysDayAfterYesterday is offline
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Knowing Yourself as the Lord (Ishvara) of all Narratives (named things) - Realization

From the Upanishads

"This is indeed the great unborn Self which consists of understanding... In the space within the heart lies the Ruler of all, the Lord of all, the King of all. He neither increases by good works nor does he diminish by evil ones...For it is he who makes him whom he would raise up from these worlds perform good works, and it is he again who makes him whom he would drag down perform evil works. He is the guardian of the worlds, the sovereign of the worlds, universal Lord. Let a man know: He is my Self."

I have tried to capture the essence of this mystery in three Gunas (Tamas, Rajas and Sattva). Here is a good description of the verses above from a previous article written on the subject:

The Ancient Narrow Far-Flung Path of Suffering - The Error of the Hindu Upanishads - Wrong View with Right Details

Who are you?

Finding the truth of who you are is negating all that is relative to your true essence. From the quest to answer this question, Love awaits your arrival. It was you all along. You are required to end suffering for the rest of the relatives. We are all the Lord. Only our view can be incorrect. From the Upanishads and all other scriptures, we discover the correct view by assistance. It requires us all (relatives) to find absolute truth.
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  #2  
Old 14-08-2017, 01:16 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Namaste.

I always have to wonder why there would need to be a 'Lord' or an 'Ishwara' involved here at all, if one could just simply say "you are not the mind, body, nor ego" and just leave it at that...and then, all Hindus would be Buddhists. LOL

Why create a 'Lord' and give it attributes if a 'Lord' does not exist beyond Self?

If Shiva is me...well, I am not a yoga master, I do not have a blue throat, sit on a tiger skin, own a trishula, wear the moon in my hair...this is what I do not get! nope...don't get it...not at all.

I don't recall creating the universe...

If people are the Lord, why are there so many temples? why do people pray and worship a 'Lord' when they are simply worshiping themselves by doing that?...nope, don't get it.

Yeah, I know that Shiva is in my heart, but Shiva isn't who I am.

There's a subtle difference between the Jivatman (embodied soul) and the Paramatman (divine soul) and that difference is what enables us to relate to the Divine Soul as being separate from what we are, even at a soul/self level.

I prefer what I have read in the Taittiriya Upanishad and Dakshinamurthy Stotram about it all:

"By contemplating Mahesvara dwelling in the microcosm (vyashti), the devotee will become co-extensive with the macrocosm. This the Sruti has declared ten times in the words "he unites with Atman."

Having first enumerated the five kosas (sheaths) of the individual, the Taittiriya-Upanishad (2–8) declares five times that the devotee attains unity with Brahman, dwelling in the anandamaya kosa as the basis of all, in the words " He unites with annamaya Atman; he unites with pranamaya Atman; he unites with manomaya Atman; he unites with vijnanamaya Atman; he unites with anandamaya Atman." Again, later on, the Upanishad speaks of the five kosas in the macrocosm, and at the end (3–10) declares five times, as shown above, that the devotee attains unity with Brahman."


Aum Namah Shivaya
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  #3  
Old 14-08-2017, 01:52 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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I saw this a while ago and laughed my head off...now is the time to post it:

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  #4  
Old 14-08-2017, 01:10 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Shiva:

"To make this a lot easier for you, let's do it this way - I am Brahman. You are Brahman. Everything is Brahman. Within the whole awareness and existence of Brahman, There is no 'Lord' and no 'devotee'. You have also felt this.

You don't know yourself as me and you do not say "I am Shiva" but through me, you know that we both have that same divine essence within, even though you still exist as 'you' and I still exist as 'me'.

Humans just have a funny way of putting it all which can get very confusing.

Because you can only exist in the full awareness of Brahman for a few minutes due to the intensity of the experience, you come out of that awareness and see me, thus you continue to worship me.

I am, was and never will be 'you' but in spiritual essence, we are united, just as everything is and I have shown you that...thus I still get to keep my trishula, damaru, chandra and Nandi thank you very much."
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  #5  
Old 14-08-2017, 01:17 PM
AlwaysDayAfterYesterday AlwaysDayAfterYesterday is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Necromancer
Namaste.

I always have to wonder why there would need to be a 'Lord' or an 'Ishwara' involved here at all, if one could just simply say "you are not the mind, body, nor ego" and just leave it at that...and then, all Hindus would be Buddhists. LOL

Why create a 'Lord' and give it attributes if a 'Lord' does not exist beyond Self?

If Shiva is me...well, I am not a yoga master, I do not have a blue throat, sit on a tiger skin, own a trishula, wear the moon in my hair...this is what I do not get! nope...don't get it...not at all.

I don't recall creating the universe...

If people are the Lord, why are there so many temples? why do people pray and worship a 'Lord' when they are simply worshiping themselves by doing that?...nope, don't get it.

Yeah, I know that Shiva is in my heart, but Shiva isn't who I am.

There's a subtle difference between the Jivatman (embodied soul) and the Paramatman (divine soul) and that difference is what enables us to relate to the Divine Soul as being separate from what we are, even at a soul/self level.

I prefer what I have read in the Taittiriya Upanishad and Dakshinamurthy Stotram about it all:

"By contemplating Mahesvara dwelling in the microcosm (vyashti), the devotee will become co-extensive with the macrocosm. This the Sruti has declared ten times in the words "he unites with Atman."

Having first enumerated the five kosas (sheaths) of the individual, the Taittiriya-Upanishad (2–8) declares five times that the devotee attains unity with Brahman, dwelling in the anandamaya kosa as the basis of all, in the words " He unites with annamaya Atman; he unites with pranamaya Atman; he unites with manomaya Atman; he unites with vijnanamaya Atman; he unites with anandamaya Atman." Again, later on, the Upanishad speaks of the five kosas in the macrocosm, and at the end (3–10) declares five times, as shown above, that the devotee attains unity with Brahman."


Aum Namah Shivaya

This debate is central to our history as religious beings. As I pointed out in the article, only our view is incorrect. Unity is yoga. To gain unity, we must first be divided from the thing we gain union with. This is a central concept relating to how love operates. To gain mastery over aspects of the self, you must first be devoid of mastery. To gain peace, you must first know what it means to have strife. To gain patience, you must know what it means to be angry. All virtues are like God's essence. They are perquisite to possessing them, or better stated, being possessed by them.

A Spirit is a mode of thought, which then manifests itself into action. To be named by love, we must be loving. You can't claim peace without being peaceful. God is known by his attributes, so claiming the attributes of God is being in possession of them. Ishvara is the ruler of self first, then others if reality necessitates a Lord. To claim the title, we must be the thing the title requires, which is the one law outlined in the Upanishades, Dhammapada and the Christian texts--Love. This is explained well in the story of Abraham.

Abraham was told to sacrifice the promise of Issac's relative future. By asking Abraham to sacrifice the future nation held in the seed of Issac, Abraham had to trust that the request was necessary. At the moment of the sacrifice, he was stopped. This one event in the life of Abraham shows us something profound about the nature of relative states of duality. Issac was not to be a sacrifice for his Father. In other words, this video is incorrect by view, but not by content it teaches:

See this video on the topic of one being living all lives. Flip this to also imply all beings living inside one being. Do they die, only for the benefit of the one they come from, or is there a larger intent? Does Love produce family?
https://youtu.be/D1VN5zICGeU

By this view, we are simply a host for one being. By the Christian view, the one being is a sacrifice for all the rest. By the correct view, there is no paradox of duality within absolute nature. We ALL inherit the Lord's work. That work is a collective effort, ending in unity at the conclusion of the process. We gain ALL collective knowledge, or as the Bible and Upanishads state, we gain awareness of all things. Once you possess what you formally lacked by collective wisdom and knowledge, you lack none of the attributes of God. You are a conformed image, yet the work was not yours alone.

As I state in the article, most people have the wrong view. It's not black or white. It's a rainbow. It takes a higher order of thinking to conceptualize absolute nature possessed by all beings already. We must come to realize what is already inside us. Even Jesus had to walk this path. So did the Buddha. They had to come to the realization of BUDH (Awakening). Know thyself. It's all true, not just one relative part. All relatives are in the absolute. Love and know them all. No division from the whole, or yoga is not practiced; love is not practiced. God is Love. Be what God is and you are this.

.
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  #6  
Old 14-08-2017, 01:20 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Thanks for that, but Lord Shiva just explained it to me in a way that I can fully understand it.

Aum Namah Shivaya!!!
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  #7  
Old 14-08-2017, 01:26 PM
AlwaysDayAfterYesterday AlwaysDayAfterYesterday is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Necromancer
Shiva:

"To make this a lot easier for you, let's do it this way - I am Brahman. You are Brahman. Everything is Brahman. Within the whole awareness and existence of Brahman, There is no 'Lord' and no 'devotee'. You have also felt this.

You don't know yourself as me and you do not say "I am Shiva" but through me, you know that we both have that same divine essence within, even though you still exist as 'you' and I still exist as 'me'.

Humans just have a funny way of putting it all which can get very confusing.

Because you can only exist in the full awareness of Brahman for a few minutes due to the intensity of the experience, you come out of that awareness and see me, thus you continue to worship me.

I am, was and never will be 'you' but in spiritual essence, we are united, just as everything is and I have shown you that...thus I still get to keep my trishula, damaru, chandra and Nandi thank you very much."

Again, correct words and wrong view. See it in this verse from the Bible. What does it mean to know? Adam knew eve, which is desire from the physical. What is desire from the spiritual? The same yoga and union, but mind instead of body.

1 Corinthians 13

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

I choose all scripture as reference, not simply the Upanishads. Absolute requires all its relatives as one. No one part can be left out of the Rainbow. Use a prism and you see all colors at once in division. See that the light contains them all. We see ourselves by one color in the spectrum. In truth, we are the light itself, wrapped in a form we recognize. This is necessary to individuate the light into a relative. Family. Awakening (BUDH) is knowing you are both. We are all the light, yet aware of the thing that cannot be seen in and of itself. Unless you are both, you cannot know yourself.

.

.
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  #8  
Old 14-08-2017, 01:44 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysDayAfterYesterday
Again, correct words and wrong view. See it in this verse from the Bible. What does it mean to know? Adam knew eve, which is desire from the physical. What is desire from the spiritual? The same yoga and union, but mind instead of body.

1 Corinthians 13

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

I choose all scripture as reference, not simply the Upanishads. Absolute requires all its relatives as one. No one part can be left out of the Rainbow. Use a prism and you see all colors at once in division. See that the light contains them all. We see ourselves by one color in the spectrum. In truth, we are the light itself, wrapped in a form we recognize. This is necessary to individuate the light into a relative. Family. Awakening (BUDH) is knowing you are both. We are all the light, yet aware of the thing that cannot be seen in and of itself. Unless you are both, you cannot know yourself.

.

.
Whose view is correct, yours? mine? the Bibles? The Upanishads? Shivas?

I am not a Christian, I am a Hindu. I do not read the Bible, I read the Tantras.

At least Shiva dispelled all my confusion and now I understand it fully. Tears of joyous relief and bliss are just pouring out.

I'm sorry, truly sorry but your words just confuse the hell out of me when it wasn't meant to be that complicated.

...but I guess that my Lord has a way of putting things that only I was ever meant to understand or get.

I have realised my unity with Brahman, quite a few times now. Can it get any better than that?

Full awakening does not come from the realisation that you are both, but that you are neither!

Aum Namah Shivaya
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  #9  
Old 14-08-2017, 03:21 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
What is desire from the spiritual? The same yoga and union, but mind instead of body.
Soul instead of mind OR body.
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  #10  
Old 14-08-2017, 04:46 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Namaste.

See, I had this problem a while ago...I had to learn it the hard way.

99.9% of people will say "I AM" and 0.1% of people will say "I AM NOT" and I belong in the latter camp.

Everybody was pushing the whole "I AM" agenda, and told me that I should believe it too because everybody does and that's just the way it is.

So, I complained to God about it...saying that "everybody says this" and God just replied; "you are NOT everybody, are you?" lol

I got the whole point.

Aum Namah Shivaya
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