Human Beings Are Not Solid - We Are Empty Space!!

[organic born]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

In the end, I just went 'ah well, I'm as 'real' as everything else is then'.

And at this version of your focused experience you are as real as everything else that is also oriented to this manor of perception. This experience of 3D reality wouldn't exist if it were otherwise.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by metal68

That's insane isn't it??!!??

Im so glad I got some replies BTW I thought it wasn't of any interest

It is truly insane compared to the way we normally experience ourselves. And yet it's undeniably the way things happen to be. As humans we are generally memorized by shape form and substance, as defined through our senses. One out-of-body experience would help remedy that assumption. "Nothing" is remotely as it seems, and yet this feeling of continuity appears remarkably real. There truly is no ready means to fully rectify the contrasts that we confront when attempting to digest such profound implications. None of us are here, and yet we are, ya gotta love it. :)

[metal68]

I still question how people have visual perception during OBE experiences, astral projection etc. It drives me mad, how can you see without eyes or for that matter hear without ears. Ive asked it loads of times and still never really got a satisfactory answer. Even with an etheric body, how does it handle photons etc? And if we are pure consciousness how can we perceive without sense organs? We cant do without them here, why would it be different in another realm.

it sounds really petty but this absence of sense organs issue when OBE is my BIGGEST stumbling block!

[organic born]

Originally Posted by metal68

I still question how people have visual perception during OBE experiences, astral projection etc. It drives me mad, how can you see without eyes or for that matter hear without ears. Ive asked it loads of times and still never really got a satisfactory answer. Even with an etheric body, how does it handle photons etc? And if we are pure consciousness how can we perceive without sense organs? We cant do without them here, why would it be different in another realm.

it sounds really petty but this absence of sense organs issue when OBE is my BIGGEST stumbling block!

So you're attempting to "intellectually" discern how such a thing is possible. In order to approach it from this angle we'll be needing to go back to the basics.

Have you had the opportunity to assist a young infant through their earlier development, to toddler, young child, older child, through their teens into adulthood? In short, have you raised children?

We are genetically predisposed to crawl and then walk, to make noises and then talk, but none of that comes as an automatic freebee. Every inch of the way must be developed and earned by the child, on a day to day, hour to hour basis. Sounds and then words are hard earned and require the full attention of the infant-to-child while the process unfolds.

If consciousness was so easily transmitted through our human experience then an infant should be break-dancing at three months.

So the process of becoming human is both imaginatively and functionally all consuming. It has been estimated that it takes roughly 10,000 hours of focused effort and practice to master any given task/art/musical instrument. If you do the math, by the time you are 20 years old you have essentially 116,800 hours with practicing at being who you think you are. (16 waking hours at 365 days of a year X 20 years)

So before you were born you were soul based and so focused, but now you're fully enveloped at being human as the thing.

When you go "out of the body" you bring your human orientation with you. You are still in your body, only asleep. You are now fully conscious but you're now using your inventory of what you've learned about being human as your primary means of interpretation. Regardless of your experience while out of body you will be trying to force everything into a format that you are now most acquainted with as your now-certain norm. The process is automatic.

I used to pay a lot of attention, while lucid dreaming or obe, to the details of the environment, to the events that occurred, for purely human reasons I used to think that such things were important. I still track the details, because I do find them most interesting, but I now watch much closer to the language of intensity that is generally tucked behind the visuals. That's where the profundity is found. By blurring the simulated sensory input there's a language behind the scenes that is stunningly simple. You know it by the manor in which it aligns your inner perceptions. You awaken to an inner sense of your more visceral self.

After-which, you still hop out of bed and play the physical game, as though it was the only true game in town. This attachment is not likely broken until you permanently pass-on.

So your physical senses when obe/lucid dreaming aren't specifically necessary, but they're generally expected. Our brains are more than happy to provide the details. :)

[RussellLewis]

Informative posts.

[lemex]

I am always in awe of this as well since hearing it. One question that I haven't been able see is this, as we are mostly space why can't we see the space. I think it has to do with QM. Question 1. So what is it that makes us large. I might as well ask since we're on the subject. Has anyone else thought about it. Of course it's the brain that processes reflective energy the eyes take in. We see a property. Question 2. If quantum mechanics is right, waves (energy) behave both and as particles and waves and I'm sensing smallness is necessary. I've never seen any author touch if there is any connection to the connection of the wave. That energy passing through the tiny structures in us, some much smaller then those in experiments themselves show us we operate the same and waves continue the journey of the wave/particle process many times over, that is their nature and this is what we see. Is it that brain sees the patterns of wave/particles against the background of the brain, waves passing through thousands of filters that creates the illusion or is what we see, what we see.

[IAmNemo]

Originally Posted by metal68

I still question how people have visual perception during OBE experiences, astral projection etc. It drives me mad, how can you see without eyes or for that matter hear without ears. Ive asked it loads of times and still never really got a satisfactory answer. Even with an etheric body, how does it handle photons etc? And if we are pure consciousness how can we perceive without sense organs? We cant do without them here, why would it be different in another realm.

it sounds really petty but this absence of sense organs issue when OBE is my BIGGEST stumbling block!

So then why do you even believe in OBE then?
Is the postulation and therefore your own understanding of reality not simpler and acceptable without it? If OBE is the barrier for understanding then why not remove that barrier entirely?

I'm curious.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by IAmNemo

So then why do you even believe in OBE then?
Is the postulation and therefore your own understanding of reality not simpler and acceptable without it? If OBE is the barrier for understanding then why not remove that barrier entirely?
.

Unless he actually has an obe, then by necessity he'll be needing to revisit its implications in a tactile and more serious way.

[IAmNemo]

Originally Posted by organic born

Unless he actually has an obe, then by necessity he'll be needing to revisit its implications in a tactile and more serious way.

Consider it, yes, absolutely.
Conclude it was actually real? That is a stretch.

One who might have what are called 'OBE' would know these experiences are subjective. And anyone familiar with science knows that to form a proper conclusion one should not rely on subjective experiences but instead on verifiable facts.

I'm not trying to invalidate you or anyone else's experiences, but I agree that one should look at this in a "more serious way" as you put it. And in doing so they'll find no objective evidence behind it. If they could then this is something that should be demonstrated to the public and not kept hidden from eyes as it would fundamentally change all human society as we know it. Don't you think?

[organic born]

Originally Posted by lemex

I am always in awe of this as well since hearing it. One question that I haven't been able see is this, as we are mostly space why can't we see the space.

Now that would be spacy wouldn't it?! Like walking though an eternally thick fog, or bumping into things we can't see.

How is it we can experience a reproduction of our physical surroundings while sleeping unmovingly in the warmth of our own bed? Why does time seem to move at a tic tock steady rate and not alter itself randomly based on the whims of it's own choosing?

When we look closely at just about anything physical essentially none of it makes a lick of sense. How does our brains coordinate it's communication with itself in order to remain informed and updated as to both outside and inside the body stimuli? Why does water turn into snow and tickle our face as we look to the sky as it's falling?

Don't know, nobody knows, we can look at the manor in which we experience such things, but the manor in which the behind-the-scene formation of 3D reality takes place seems a bit beyond our paygrade at the moment.

I'm strongly onboard with the notion that it's okay not to know, and should we venture a guess we need to remain clear that it's just a guess based on associative guessing. However, should you research and find out, and are transformed into an entity of light with such access, you'll have me sitting humbly before you, bowing respectfully, as a ready recipient to learn more. :)