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24-08-2015, 11:34 PM
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Master
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sunny Australia
Posts: 2,214
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I think you do have to get to the core of stuff so you can heal , my Dad was somewhat of a terroriser he never used to beat me but lots of little things to undermine you,There was something he said to me about 5 yrs ago when I was staying with him because my husband was raging, He said Maybe all your problems come from when i used to squirt orange peel juice in your eyes when you were 18mths in your highchair,I said your kidding me and he said No and started laughing. I didnt know how to deal with it and I have felt angry about it although Ive forgiven him for lots of other stuff, My therapist helped me to feel and validate the anger, but when I got home I was ready to take it to the nxt level so I imagined myself at that age in the chair and it happening and me feeling bewildered and hurt ,then I saw myself looking at him and thinking Father I forgive you because you know not what you do, and I could see him as I usually do as someone thats not perfect and is in there own form pain, I guess behind the anger I had been feeling deeply unloved that he would do this to me and but doing this exercise has really helped me finally release that scenario ,and see how important it is that I CAN LOVE AND NURTURE MYSELF......and that its not ok for people to hurt me and now I can stand up for myself....and if need be I can forgive more easily..
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I AM.
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25-08-2015, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepsoul
I think you do have to get to the core of stuff so you can heal , my Dad was somewhat of a terroriser he never used to beat me but lots of little things to undermine you,There was something he said to me about 5 yrs ago when I was staying with him because my husband was raging, He said Maybe all your problems come from when i used to squirt orange peel juice in your eyes when you were 18mths in your highchair,I said your kidding me and he said No and started laughing. I didnt know how to deal with it and I have felt angry about it although Ive forgiven him for lots of other stuff, My therapist helped me to feel and validate the anger, but when I got home I was ready to take it to the nxt level so I imagined myself at that age in the chair and it happening and me feeling bewildered and hurt ,then I saw myself looking at him and thinking Father I forgive you because you know not what you do, and I could see him as I usually do as someone thats not perfect and is in there own form pain, I guess behind the anger I had been feeling deeply unloved that he would do this to me and but doing this exercise has really helped me finally release that scenario ,and see how important it is that I CAN LOVE AND NURTURE MYSELF......and that its not ok for people to hurt me and now I can stand up for myself....and if need be I can forgive more easily..
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That is an amazing story and a perfect example of practical forgiveness, going deeper into the pain to confront it and release fear. Self-nurturing.
For it is sure that withholding love from a person because of resentment over something they've done, holding a belief (a grudge) that he/she "doesn't deserve" our love/forgiveness, is a sure sign of immaturity and lack of deep spiritual awareness, which is why such people feel threatened by the idea of "loving them anyway," which is a message that ALL great spiritual teachers throughout history have shared with great emphasis.
It is not our job to judge whether another has "learned his/her lesson" or not, in a sense that we shouldn't send them loving thoughts because they may not "deserve it" in our opinion. One is free to withhold love in this way, of course, but that one is really only holding himself/herself from further expansion of consciousness, suffering in their own vindictive attitude. The truly wise are those who GIVE LOVE REGARDLESS, which doesn't mean to make a big mission of, "I must think lovingly about this person who has done wrong," for it is not necessary to focus one's attention specifically on the person in question, but first and foremost it is necessary to honor our own feelings, no matter what they are, which itself is a great act of love that benefits not only ourselves but others as well, for no amount of love that is given is ever wasted.
The energies of love go where they are most needed, to those who are most open and receptive to them.
The very simple reason why most humans (adults in particular) do not resonate strongly with the idea of "giving love regardless" is only because of a great misunderstanding of what "giving love regardless" really entails, which has nothing to do with giving a "bad guy" something he "doesn't deserve," which is the most-common thing that is stated when one denies the message.
Grudge-holding people are those who use their free will to withhold love, using this as a "weapon," because they feel sore and hurt because they think that the person who "did wrong" must "pay" for what they did, not realizing that so-called "karmic justice" is something that is taken care of through the "law of attraction," for no "negative" deed can occur without "negative" repercussions to the one who did the deed, as this is not possible.
You, Deepsoul, my friend, are very much understanding that withholding forgiveness is not really a curse to the one who doesn't receive it, it is a "curse" to the one who himself/herself is withholding it! ALL forgiveness is really self-forgiveness at its core, for the forgiver is the one who first FEELS the relief of letting go of their own feelings of grievance, and when we do not condemn ourselves and others in our minds, then there is no need for forgiveness.
God, the Source, doesn't forgive, simply because God does not condemn, period. Condemnation is something that humans do, and something that we must surrender and heal within ourselves.
Eternal Blessings
Last edited by Caleb : 25-08-2015 at 01:20 AM.
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25-08-2015, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepsoul
I think you do have to get to the core of stuff so you can heal , my Dad was somewhat of a terroriser he never used to beat me but lots of little things to undermine you,There was something he said to me about 5 yrs ago when I was staying with him because my husband was raging, He said Maybe all your problems come from when i used to squirt orange peel juice in your eyes when you were 18mths in your highchair,I said your kidding me and he said No and started laughing. I didnt know how to deal with it and I have felt angry about it although Ive forgiven him for lots of other stuff, My therapist helped me to feel and validate the anger, but when I got home I was ready to take it to the nxt level so I imagined myself at that age in the chair and it happening and me feeling bewildered and hurt ,then I saw myself looking at him and thinking Father I forgive you because you know not what you do, and I could see him as I usually do as someone thats not perfect and is in there own form pain, I guess behind the anger I had been feeling deeply unloved that he would do this to me and but doing this exercise has really helped me finally release that scenario ,and see how important it is that I CAN LOVE AND NURTURE MYSELF......and that its not ok for people to hurt me and now I can stand up for myself....and if need be I can forgive more easily..
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That's fine, great if you were able to do that - but it depends partly on attitude and patience. If you have the patience and if there is some kind of anger seething away inside you then therapy is probably be answer.
But it isn't the only answer. I remember my (birth) mother got in a right froth one day and tried to hit me with a cricket bat. She didn't succeed but later, when my "case" was brought before the Children's Officers I reminded her of this in front of them. She laughed, perhaps a little nervously and claimed that I wouldn't let her - I kept deflecting the blows and finally grabbed the thing out of her hand. In turn I asked her what she expected me to do. If I hadn't she could have cracked my skull open. And because of that, her amusement, I never forgive her...simply because she'd go on in the same vein (though obviously not with the same person - me) if she thought I'd made it all right by forgiving. I feel a lot happier and released by not forgiving.
And, just my view, retribution, if justified by all the variables in the situation, is no less spiritual than forgiveness. It's a lot faster than going down the therapy to "let go" route because retribution is usually done and dusted quickly. Agreed, one may nurture a need for revenge until the time is right. That has the merit of penting up energy for when the moment arrives. Then the retributive act is done and the slate is cleaned. One automatically lets go. There is no need for further concern or hand-wringing about it. Balance is restored. Move on. It certainly doesn't need therapy because it is a therapeutic action.
As for those where who claim to be forgiving themselves for the evil acts inflicted upon them leads to inner peace, so it might if someone leans toward a doormat rather than warrior mode. That's fine by me. But if I have an inner warrior then its roots were in the very conduct of my (birth) parents toward me. A part of me, it would be spiritually dangerous to suppress it.
A Martial spell is often enough. Mars is usually obliging, given great respect and He will do the necessary for the "retributor!"
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25-08-2015, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
That's fine, great if you were able to do that - but it depends partly on attitude and patience. If you have the patience and if there is some kind of anger seething away inside you then therapy is probably be answer.
But it isn't the only answer. I remember my (birth) mother got in a right froth one day and tried to hit me with a cricket bat. She didn't succeed but later, when my "case" was brought before the Children's Officers I reminded her of this in front of them. She laughed, perhaps a little nervously and claimed that I wouldn't let her - I kept deflecting the blows and finally grabbed the thing out of her hand. In turn I asked her what she expected me to do. If I hadn't she could have cracked my skull open. And because of that, her amusement, I never forgive her...simply because she'd go on in the same vein (though obviously not with the same person - me) if she thought I'd made it all right by forgiving. I feel a lot happier and released by not forgiving.
And, just my view, retribution, if justified by all the variables in the situation, is no less spiritual than forgiveness. It's a lot faster than going down the therapy to "let go" route because retribution is usually done and dusted quickly. Agreed, one may nurture a need for revenge until the time is right. That has the merit of penting up energy for when the moment arrives. Then the retributive act is done and the slate is cleaned. One automatically lets go. There is no need for further concern or hand-wringing about it. Balance is restored. Move on. It certainly doesn't need therapy because it is a therapeutic action.
As for those where who claim to be forgiving themselves for the evil acts inflicted upon them leads to inner peace, so it might if someone leans toward a doormat rather than warrior mode. That's fine by me. But if I have an inner warrior then its roots were in the very conduct of my (birth) parents toward me. A part of me, it would be spiritually dangerous to suppress it.
A Martial spell is often enough. Mars is usually obliging, given great respect and He will do the necessary for the "retributor!"
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What you say is very powerful, for to take a stance of "doormat" is indeed detrimental to one's growth, although ultimately it serves as a great lesson in which the soul learns tremendously from.
As I perceive and speak of the true nature of forgiveness, what I perceive as genuine forgiveness, it doesn't hold that one must never "fight back," for being a "doormat" is in itself a type of self-violence upon oneself, due to repressing anger.
In my experience as a youth, I was bullied a number of times in my elementary school and middle school years (almost always from those who were initially friendly with me), as I wasn't as aggressive as most of the males, and I did have a tendency to let myself be "pushed around" a bit, or made to look foolish, but not for long, as I always fought back, defended myself, and was suspended from school a few times as a result.
With me, I ALWAYS felt great love in my heart for those who "bullied" me, even when there was obvious conflict on the surface of things, as I intuitively saw a type of weakness in the character of those who like to "control" or "manipulate" others through fear. It became ever more clear as I got older and explored my deep feelings and inner power that I realize that I had ALLOWED MYSELF to be "pushed around," due to my own fear of expressing my true feelings, and that the "true tyrant" was never any school "bully," but was my own lack of being aware of my own power, which--at that young age--is typically the "norm" in most societies, as of date. I am very happy with those experiences now, as they truly helped me in my journey of awakening to my True Power and True Self, which no doubt is ongoing.
The message of "forgive all" or "giving love regardless" is also misinterpreted by those who have "doormat"-type personalities, for they are still not deeply in touch with their feelings of anger. The initial feeling of anger is simply a healthy expression, a warning, a sign that reflects that a sense of "injustice" has occurred; it is only when anger is prolonged and fed and grows into deep feelings of hatred and resentment and retribution that it becomes "monstrous" and self-defeating.
The forgiveness consciousness that I radiate in no way says that people "should not" seek revenge or to defend themselves, because I am not here in this world to tell others what they "should" or "shouldn't" do, nor do I ever do so or imply so here. All human choices and expressions are to be honored by me, and "fighting back" doesn't have to contradict the understanding that a compassionate attitude may be held, even when "fighting" for a cause.
Although transcending "warrior" consciousness is a major aspect of my personal expansion and awakening, I recognize that there are many types of "warrior" consciousness, some even being quite enlightened in how it is defined and expressed, such as how don Juan Matus taught Carlos Castaneda the "art of the warrior," which really had nothing to do with the old-school definitions of "warrior" in the negative, war-like sense, and was actually very loving and empowering.
You radiate high compassion, Lorelyen, and I do not perceive your sense of justice and warrior consciousness to be a damaging thing. I actually see it as one that is exploring self-empowerment and being a powerful voice of helping prevent further violence. In my mind, more than otherwise, no one is seen as "wrong" at all for making the choices that they make, for the ability to choose in itself is neutral, and may be used for healthy actions or "not-so-healthy" expressions, even those that are seen as "evil," of course.
I applaud your great honesty and sharing of some of your journey's experiences with us, as it is a very powerful and self-honest exploration of deep feeling, which no doubt adds richness to the subject at hand.
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25-08-2015, 08:24 AM
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Seeker
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 48
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Forgiveness is because our own health.
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25-08-2015, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepsoul
Thankyou MindPower, I guess Ive come full circle really , until you have been hurt so badly for many years ,I just didnt know that I could be assertive and it made the difference ,like really pull back Ive just always been so compassionate ,but in the end its forgiveness that opens up so much more love in me thats why I love it so much...Thanks for all the great posts .and Sunsoul not sure if your having a bad day but yes I forgive you, Im sorry if have confused my life ,but I am no liar just another soul trying to find peace , I liked what you said Linen I think its important to feel that anger but we have to move on from there also.......Forgiveness rules....:)
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Whom are you forgiving deepsoul? Sunsoul? That impossible a task for you to remember the word life, is it?
Or is it simply a matter that you are fooling me and yourself and confusing sunsoul, projecting all this junk onto him n addition, and drawing him into this, to add fire to your deceptive, meaningless, worthless forgivance. For neither do you wish to forgive,nor do you intend to, nor do you actually forgive. What you do is take revenge. Because you cant let go of the grudge you hold and throw responsibility back to where it belongs. Instead you complicate and confused every thing, because of your own guilt.
You accept guilt but thats to attack the innocent bystander sunsoul because yet again, you dont really want to accept it, but take revenge on the one who has pointed it out, while making yourself look as if you are being treated as somekind of a doormat by the other person, whike it is you who actually treats yourself as a doormat and wants to be treated so, but doesnt wish to take responsibility for your choice either.
Then the grandiosity that you think you can forgive me. One i dont need it. Two there was never any need for any forgivance in the scenario. Two you are not truly forgiving me if you think you need it, you are complicating everything in the process, you are just putting on an act, which you complicate further because you know you are doing so.
Then you apologising to me for confusing your own life? What for? What role do i or did i have to play in it? While at the same time you say you didnt lie? While at the same time you accuse me of having a bad day, or perhaps, wishing it on me, because i happened to be stupid enough to point out your own intentional self deception to you, which you obviously have worked eternally hard to keep from coming to the fore of your mind? But no. I aint sorry for it. Nor am i going to take on all this burden if your by 'forgiving' you when there is nothing to be forgiven in the first place. Play of words that stupid word is, a psychologically detrimental and dangerous one at that too, except when it is truly used, which is only normally done in case of deeply lived ones, whom we share a lot of pain and happiness with, given and taken, all in the background if unconditional love.
Overall, you are forgiving yourself for dragging yourself through all of the above and me and sunsoul into it. But even that wont work because you have covered it up in layers of deception of the self, so that you will not easily realise what you have done and each attempt will only further blind you from the truth and drag a few more into the mess, just like its happened here, getting you sympathy and me and sunsoul hatred and angst. More on you each time, right...a cycle you start which will amplify each time anyone reads this thread.
It would have been easier instead if you had attempted to know yourself, your role in things and situations, do what is needed to rectify your role, if at all to end that situation which can only happen by taking responsibility for yourself, and leave others sins into them. But no, you would escape it all as its too easy and no fun, no complication, no dragging in of innocent bystanders to satisfy your and your wrongdoers pleasures, as they benefit from all this drama all the while along with you, you see, you play it for their image you incorporate within you. And because you know your forgiving everyone and your loving yourself (actually representing grandiosity and selfishness in the way you wrote it in your OP) will make no real difference to anything but just add to your internal chaos of it all....you must have done it a few times.
Not learnt that if something doesnt work a few times, then you need to reconsider its utility, position and purpose in your situation? Why would you need to constantly repeatthe same thing over and iver without any obvios effect. Forgive someone - done and dusted...you go back over and over again because forgiveness plays no role in it, together with living yoyrself. Right solution for tge right problem,but alas, you havent yet practised identifying the problem have you...the great jesus christ role model....yet you cant bear the burden of self deception, which you have to practice as you are no jesus christ and tgis is no fairy tale and as deep inside its not in you to create this useless chaos in yourself....continue cycle...cover it all up, drag a few more innocent people into it, by you doing something which you know for definite serves no purpose and means nothing coz you cant bear the thought that you have deceived yourself.
And new ones will truly believe that sun soul hadcomitted some crime against you, as obviously it isnt that unachievable task to remember the word life for a million reasons...it actually takes enormous effort to forget it...more on you.
And feel free to add more chaos to it all, as obviously the chaos in this post which truly represents that you have created within you with those few highlighted words that can be seen superficially, is too much for you to handle. Or sit diwn and make effort instead to start identifying the right oroblems and resolving them in a effecient and meaningful manner.
Did you forgive your father? It doesnt sound like it. It sounds more like you are cursing him, for the pain and the grudge, you still sem to be holding onto. If you want to truly forgive him,or did, you wouldn't hold onto the grudge. Very similar to apologising to someone - i was taught when little that when one says 'sorry' one means to promise oneself that they will do their all never to repeat that which they are apologising for andthat the the apology, which is asking, pleading for forgivance from the other for causing unecessary grevience to them, is deeply heartfelt, so much so, that you apologise because you feel their pain. In fact, if my ego want stopping me, as paradoxically taking the action would come across as being more egoistic, i would have taken back my sorry which was used sarcastically, by me, in another post recently.
This chaos, only partially represented by how this posts reads and its tough on the mind contents, is what in saw in your OP deepsoul, and thanks for providing me with the oppurtunity to bring it to the front.
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25-08-2015, 09:14 AM
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Master
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sunny Australia
Posts: 2,214
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What on earth are you on about....Im sorry I got the names mixed up lots of souls on here..Take care
__________________
I AM.
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25-08-2015, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepsoul
What on earth are you on about....Im sorry I got the names mixed up lots of souls on here..Take care
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There comes your true self. Good to see it. So i was right all the way through. Fake forgiveness, fake apologies, fake love, fake stories. Love your signatures though, the depth of their meaning and the essense in it.
I bet the question is directed at yourself, at your own identity, whichever 'soul' you are...
Bye now deepsoul...how you find your way out of this identity crisis and self created chaos...hope you manage to identify your true self somewhere in there. Good luck and best wishes. Your aplogies, forgiveness, love will, hope you recognise, be lost in direction, purpose and be ineffective, until then.
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25-08-2015, 09:46 AM
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" much ado about nothing " comes to mind reading the last posts.
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25-08-2015, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celest
" much ado about nothing " comes to mind reading the last posts.
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Very productive morning for me celest. The joy of feeling unconditional love. Its all in the giving..give it from your soul, to another soul, to help heal the deepest of their wounds within theselves by themselves, in such a way that what you give becomes theirs, and you will still have yours, irrespective of the outcome towards yourself and without expectations. Giving without adding to the already existing burden of the other and if taken will only ease the burden or erase it forever. no fakeness or hatred will touch you....
The most some can understand such a thing is in terms or bitterness, revenge in the form of fake forgiveness apologies, love and light and so on.
My jobs done. Please carry on deceiving yourselves coz you cannot dare face your conscience. Not to do so is easier and more productive than the tons of self deception actually, but guilt will never let you see it i suppose. Atleast i can tell myself i have tried my best to relieve someone for their agony in a way that will empower them, in such a maner that they wont need to feel so dependent on others all their life, that too on their asking me to do so. What they do with it is upto them. I know i cant be blamed for not caring or doing my best, because i cared more about my own fake self.
You see, i didnt need to lie, or support homosexuals to cover up my own guilt, while crying foul to threaten anyone who doesnt take the burden off me, inorder to make myself feel worth it. I just had to do the right thing, be honest, be true to all that is, truly be able to forgive and care and feel compassion.
On top of it all, lol, i have the added pleasure of unveiling more dangerous fakeness. Lovely gift indeed. Unwittingly the universe helps to add more good karma to me by making me the tool to warn many more of fakeness etc, etc, etc. Bliss.
Last edited by lifensoul : 25-08-2015 at 11:47 AM.
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