What does 'you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free' mean to you?

[A human Being]

I'm pretty sure that if I asked the Christians I know this question, they'd say something along the lines of 'the truth is that Jesus is our saviour and we have to repent our sins and ask Him for forgiveness in order to be saved.'

Most of the Christians on this board will be better-acquainted with the scriptures than me, I'm sure, so hopefully someone can provide me with some context. So my interpretation of the expression is maybe coming from a place of ignorance, but what it means to me is related to the attitude of dispassion and the true nature of reality - it's seeing the world from all viewpoints, seeing all of the picture and not the part of it you want to see.

To me it's intimately related to what Jesus said about seeing the world as small children, and being born again - I feel like many Christians don't actually get what he was getting at, that you have to give up all preconceptions in order to truly grasp the nature of reality.

Perhaps I have it wrong, as I say I'm coming at it from a position of relative ignorance, so I'd be interested to hear the perspectives of the Christians on the board.

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Human; "To me it's intimately related to what Jesus said about seeing the world as small children, and being born again - I feel like many Christians don't actually get what he was getting at, that you have to give up all preconceptions in order to truly grasp the nature of reality."

Yes,there you have it in a nutshell..Give up the "preconceptions",expectations..Born again,means essentially to recognise Self now,as Soul first,body second;a part of a greater Being,Our Father,who is literally EVERYTHING..Therefore,to truly be born again is to acknowledge union with the whole of Creation without bias or personal desires,realisisng that you are eternlly,now and always a part OF that creation,part OF Our Father..

There is no seperation between You,I and Our Father,and this understanding is a major stumbling block formainstream Christianity,who are taight that their god is seperate unreachable unless one has a priest or clergy to interced fo rthem..Christ said the exact opposite - You are ALREADY at one with the Father,but do not REALISE IT..The Kingdom is within You,NOW,this is His true message - no clergy even needed..Indeed,the Bible is not even the best source for Christs true message,as the Bible is severely edited by those clergy and authorities who were already in power,edited in such a way in order to keep that power and their positions,wholly for their selves..A much better more direct source can be found in the "gnostic gospels" - first hand accounts from the Disciples as they follow Yeshua and learn from Him,the direct and metaphysical knowledge He imparts - the true "nature of reality" is not to be found within the Bible..

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by PeteC-UK

Hi Folks..

Human; "To me it's intimately related to what Jesus said about seeing the world as small children, and being born again - I feel like many Christians don't actually get what he was getting at, that you have to give up all preconceptions in order to truly grasp the nature of reality."

Yes,there you have it in a nutshell..Give up the "preconceptions",expectations..Born again,means essentially to recognise Self now,as Soul first,body second;a part of a greater Being,Our Father,who is literally EVERYTHING..Therefore,to truly be born again is to acknowledge union with the whole of Creation without bias or personal desires,realisisng that you are eternlly,now and always a part OF that creation,part OF Our Father..

There is no seperation between You,I and Our Father,and this understanding is a major stumbling block formainstream Christianity,who are taight that their god is seperate unreachable unless one has a priest or clergy to interced fo rthem..Christ said the exact opposite - You are ALREADY at one with the Father,but do not REALISE IT..The Kingdom is within You,NOW,this is His true message - no clergy even needed..Indeed,the Bible is not even the best source for Christs true message,as the Bible is severely edited by those clergy and authorities who were already in power,edited in such a way in order to keep that power and their positions,wholly for their selves..A much better more direct source can be found in the "gnostic gospels" - first hand accounts from the Disciples as they follow Yeshua and learn from Him,the direct and metaphysical knowledge He imparts - the true "nature of reality" is not to be found within the Bible..

Right, right - we're very much on the same page then. My dad's a Christian and we've had discussions about some of the things Jesus said - he pointed out that Jesus said 'I am the way, the truth, and the light,' I countered that Jesus also said 'you are the light of the world,' and 'the kingdom of heaven is in you.' His view is that only through Jesus can you realise your own divinity, whereas I believe you can take steps to help yourself recognise it (meditation, for example), it requires humility, stillness, and silence.

I'm also of the view that different religions use different terms to describe the same thing - what Buddhists call nirvana or enlightenment, for example, is what Christians call the peace that surpasseth all understanding, or the kingdom of heaven. He would probably reject this, which to me is at least partly an ego thing - 'no, I am in possession of the truth, my religion is the true one and all others are wrong.' (I guess I could always just ask him!)

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Human; Yes we are very much on the same page here..I had very similar discussions with my Mother,now deceased,though at the time,i was very much more athiest that I am today - in fact,I was if anything,anti spiritual for a long long while totaly rejected all of this for a while..

Indeed then,know the truth and the truth SHALL set you free..See Self as you ARE,and this IS liberation,total freedom..It SEEMS so very very complicated - but it is really,just allowng reality to be seen for what it actually is..Now,its true here,Yeshua,Christ,did say,He was the ONLY way,and in my experience,this is absolutely correct..BUT,the emphasis here,is on the TRUE Christ,for this is essentially just as you say - a STATE OF AWARENESS !! His teaching is at the heart,dealing with CONSCIOUSNESS itself..He describes how this Being,this supreme Consciousness that He calls Our Father,literally CREATES REALITY..(at no point does Yeshua EVER refer to this Being in a named way..He doesnt say Jehovah or Yahweh or the multitude of other names this god of genesis has..Christ ALWAYS refers to a Father,supreme Lord of all creation,saying He Christ is a DIRECT manifestation of that WIll)..

So,Christ IS the only way to connect to that supreme source,for to Be Christ,is to have that Will,that Conscious presence,HERE AND NOW,for we are already a part of it,and it,the Father,has literally,sponsored our existance here,is totally the cause of everything..No seperation..The Father dwells WITHIN us,IS us,our very essence..To know this,to live this,is to BECOME Christ..

Now realise that you are correct when you say that by your own actions will you come to find Christ,and yes,those other eastern discilpines are all a part of and equally valid in that effort..BUT,realise also,that it is the CHRIST WITHIN YOU,already,that is leading you to,revealing these other things to you,as and when YOU require them.."Ask and it shall be given"..Knock and the door will be opened"..

The Kingdom of Heaven is here and Now - revealed once we have attained that level of realisation,The Christ mind..And Iam not just talking here,metaphorically,hypothetically - Iam speaking about an ACTUALISATION !! A living reality,moment to moment experience out there as it were "in the real world"..Christ performed MIRACLES,literaly bent the world around,shaped and moulded its essence to HIS WILL.....THIS is the Kingdom on Earth,full realisation of inherant Divintiy - the WILL itself that literally CREATES REALITY..This is in truth is KARMA !! The creation of ones DESIRES,fullfillment of WILL,fully formed reality exactly as you envisoned it,wished to experience it,created perfect every time..

This is the way all creation occurs..I will simply call it the true karma,and wil explain further if needed..For now,we must realise that ths entire universe is nothing but an "abstract force" that we call energy..The energy is forming patterns that we take to be solid reality,but actually,its all illusion,a trick of Consciousness,a perspective within that creation..Christ explains a way to connect directly to the source of that creation,to connect direcly to the Will,the presence behind that intention - and so,to become Christ is to know this inherant ability,this Karmik force we have,to literally CREATE the world around us..Thus the Kingdom of heaven is to be the perfect world with each of us individualy knowing the fullness of what is intended,each knowing fully their own desires,and each realising fully,the UNITY of it all as ONE CREATION..

Each religion and each spiritual practice,is a footstep on the journey,but Christ is the ENTIRETY of the process,the unfoldment of complete understanding of Self,the living Gnosis of inherant Divinity..No man can show you THAT truth,only his or her INTERPRETATION of it..Thus,only through the Christ can one hope to attain this fullest understanding,inclusive of all those other aspects,ways and methods,for Christ is the source,Light of ALL the world,literally,all things being formed OF light BY His Will - and this is truly Karma..

[jojo50]

Originally Posted by PeteC-UK

Hi Folks..

first!, I disagree with Human, concerning some of what he said about the bible. He said the bible ISN'T “the best source for Christ true message.” who show we ,IF... we claim to be christians, Jehovah God/Yahweh’s and Jesus word or what man say? TRUE!... Jehovah's words, (the bible), have been played with for example, (which MANY “christians”, REFUSE to even acknowledge it's in the bibles they read), the name JEHOVAH! Whenever one mostly see TWO TITLES, which that's what they are, NOT NAMES, “LORD god” ,lord GOD” ,here's 2 examples, (Exo. 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God”) and (“Amos - 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD....”). It's satan who had men REMOVED THE NAME. But the God of Israel , who's Power and WILL over comes ANY being, be-it spirit or human , made SURE, it wasn't ALL removed . So where there's two titles, one of them should have been God's name ,(Isa. 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation).

He later made his name KNOWN to Moses, because his people didn't know his name, (Exo. 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them). Man can TRY!... to do whatever they want with God's words, but Jehovah has the LAST SAY-SO! He WANTS... HIS PEOPLE to use the bible, we KNOW what's added and removed. And we know WITHOUT the bible we wouldn't know as much as we do ,(2Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness). And those who removed or added to Jehovah and Jesus words, was NOT men of theirs. Jehovah God ONLY picked men who worshiped him to write down his words. And he does it by means of his HS ,(2Cor. 3:5 ,1Thess. 2:13 ,1Cor. 2:12 ,2Pet. 1:21 ,Exo. 31:18). he told Dan to write down things he DIDN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND.

But Jehovah told him ,it basically wasn't for his time, but ours ,(Dan. 12:8,9 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end). We ARE living in end times! Now for your question, many believe “KNOWING THE TRUTH”, which would be, being good, loving people, getting baptized, and believing in Jesus and God, or as God. That's just part of it, but MANY already fit this category, in Jesus time and now. But what did Jesus say to MANY? ,(Matt. 7:22,23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity).

There's a reason why he said that, “iniquity” means immoral or gross sin. Now we ALL sin, even those “christians” who THINK, they're sinned free. NO ONE'S free from sin until the die ,(Rom. 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin). Because death is a payment for being born through sin. Jesus death saved us from eternal sin ,(Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord). So what Jesus was referring to at Matt. 7, was those who straddles the fence. Those who call themselves christians, yet do the things and love the things of the immoral world, (James 4:4 and 1John 2:15,16). Which goes AGAINST Jehovah and Jesus words. Like celebrating holidays then say it's about Jesus, even though there's NO scripture where Jesus OR those who TRUELY followed him ever did. Jesus told us to follow him, and basically NOT what we want ,(Luke 9:23). Jesus showed his TRUE people didn't get involved with worldly things, JUST as HE DIDN'T!, (John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world).

“KNOWING THE TRUTH”, one lives in a way PLEASING to Jehovah God and Jesus. Even IF the MANY OTHERS, are playing part-time christians. Understand satan doesn't mind, we playing part-time christians. Just as long as we do some of what he wants. And he MAKES SURE, he put enough on this earth ,sex out of marriage, cheating, following man-made traditions, celebrating dead presidents birthday, the list goes on. ON the other hand, despite what MANY seem to believe. Jehovah God and Jesus does NOT... put ANY negative temptations on us ,(James 1:13,14 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed).

“THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE”. means once we seek the truth ,and ask for it, (Matt. 7:7,8), we then try our best to apply it to our lives. which means pushing our OWN SELFISH wants and ways aside ,(1Pet. 1:14,15 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance, But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation). peace

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Jojo; "first!, I disagree with Human, concerning some of what he said about the bible. He said the bible ISN'T “the best source for Christ true message.”

Actualy,it was me who said that - and I fully stand by it..The Bible clearly IS NOT the best source at all..Firstly it contains actually very little DIRECT SPOKEN WORD of Christ Himself,even though the New testamant is ALL ABOUT CHRIST,His own words are strangely ommitted..Second,many many other sources DO EXIST that do contain DIRECT teachings,and yet these very books were declared a herasy b the ruling clergy,outlawed,destroyed almost comletly..The gnostic gospels,although following the Bible narrative extrmely closely,and although containing direct one on one teaching,Christ to Disciple,were OMMITTED ON PURPOSE by the council of Nicea - the governing body of MORTAL MEN,who AUTHORED the modern Bible..

WHY would they omit these gnostic texts..?..I mean they amount to personal diaries,direct special revelation by Christ to their direct questions about The Father and the natureo fall this..Why then would that be a threat to an established clergy such that they must destroy that knowledge,call it herasy and literallymurder any who believe or understood it..?..WHY..?..Because Christ tells EMPHATICALLY - the god they worship IS NOT THE FATHER THAT CHRIST SPEAKS OF !! They are duped,misled - and they in their turn have misled te world for some 2000 years now..

The god of the Old testamant is not the Godhood,Father,source of ALL..jehovah did NOT snet Christ here at all..If anything,Christ redeems and saves the DEMI god jehovah,every bit as much as he redeems mankind itself..

The gnostic texts - Christs own words included - tell us of the ORIGINS of jehovah,how he,a mere demigod is CREATED - He explains EVERYTHING form the very first all the way through..CHRIST says directly,The Godhood,Father,realised its own existance,and this caused to manifest a Divine Light,the very first "heaven" realm of existance..As the Father realised that He had created this,he realised His aspect of WIll,INTENTION,and thisis the essenceof the Christ mind..This Divne Light is described as a "luminous cloud" that the early jews know as Sofia,the Wisdom of God..These Beings are seperate aspects of the ONE ENTITY - the Holy trinity,Father Son Holy Ghost..Christ himself explains all this fully in the gnostic texts,especially so,to Thomas and Judas who each have their own gospels,yet as I say,purpoesefully ommitted from the ordained version that was manufactured as the Bible..

Same texts,Christ explains that actually,Sofia,the very energy of creation itself,creates this demigod BY MISTAKE,without any FOREKNOWLEDGE of her actions..She cant help this as she IS CREATIVE POTENTIAL,an aspect of the Father,endowned with Karmik force same as all Consciusness is..She creates this mistake,and is ashamed of it - it is SHE who "casts it out of heaven below the relam of the Father so nonemay know her error"...IMPORTANT POINT THAT !!

See,this demigod,who already has many names - Sacklot,Yaldaboath,Samael,as he is known in the true relams above - as far as he is concerned,he finds himself alone in an unpopulated "place" with this inherant divine power to CREATE,and so,thisi nherant power does what it always does,and manifests his WILL - JEhovah then,with his own Divine power,limited as it is,is the one that creates HERE,this realm BELOW the true heavens above..HE,jehovah,is NOT AWRAE OF THE REALMS ABOVE HIM - fully believes that he jehovah is the osurce of all things..IMPORTANT...Christ says Jehovah is at first in ignoirance of his own source,the true Father..

So,an ignorant demigod called jehovah is busy CREATING his own manifestations and so he poulates his relam with likewise created beings - mere creatures like you or I - we call them Angels..And for a while all is well,ignorance is bliss as they say..Then out of the "realms above" ,the true heavens,jehovah and his angels become aware of "something"..Christ says that the true Human,was then created in the true heavens by and with the FATHER..This perfect human is known as ADAMUS,and is a purely spiritual Being,having never been placed in material existance at all,but residing similarly to Christ and Sofia,as aspects of the eternal Father..

So Adamus is created,and the lower realms where jehovah abides,become aware of this Cosmic event..HERE,this place in Christs narrative,is where WE,mortal humans begin..Jehovah and his angels witness this creation event ABOVE them,and for the first time jehovah is aware of a greater power than his own..Now,one of his angels,we call him Lucifer - basically wants to go "up " to this new realm to explore and discover this greater power...Jehovah though,simply wont allow that at all,and is jealous and threatened by this new and greater authority above him..Remember,until this point,jehovah thought himself the true god,source of all..it must have been a real nasty shock when this greter creation happened around him and he realised his error..

All this is recorded in our book of Genesis - only here it is recorded from jehovahs perspective,not Christs,and NOT the Fathers..As far as jehovah was concerned,he WAS the source right up until the creation of the first HUMAN above him..So,what does jehovah do..?..He gathers his angels and says "let US create a man in OUR image",and thus we mortals here and now are created..Two things here then..Lucifer - the Angel who wants to ascend and investigate - NOT because he thinks he is above jehovah,but because he realises,as they all do,that SOMETHING is above jehovah - a greater power yet..It is this that Lucifer wants to investigate,the source of the true Father,and JEHOVAH PROHIBITS IT !!

Second,this jealousy is continued with us mortals - just as he told his angels "Iam the lord thy god and you shalll have none before me"..Lucifer was banished from that realm because he questioned jehovahs authority - and in the garden of Eden,Lucifer wanted to open up the mind of adam and eve (jehovahs own attempt at humanity),by giving them knowledge of the truth..Again,jehovah couldnt allow that - a jealous god couldnt have us mere mortals knowing that he isnt the supreme power after all,and so jehovah banishes us too,casts us all down here and basically leaves us to fend for ourselves,favouring only those who worship him,even though he is directly responsible for all of us no matter if we acknowledge him or not..Christ NEVER says that Lucifer is evil,in fact,never mentions this "devil" at all,never even acknowledges it..If anything,Christ says that jehovah willfully misled us,and so surely he himself is the father of all lies,for he deliberalty with held knowledge of a surpeme Being from us and his other creations,usurped that position for himself when he was never entitled to it..

Jehovah set up a system of punishement and reward that ensured only his faithful and chosen could ever hope to gain something better than mortal life..For THIS reason alone,the Christ came - DIRECTLY from the realms above jehovahs creation,directly from the Father source of all..For his part,Jehovah eventually ascends to the realm above and encouters the true source..Humbled by the true Divinity,Jehovah offers to destroy his flawed creation,to start again giving full disclosure so that his creations could finaly come to know not only jehovah,but he true Father behind and above him..Thus we have the flood where jehovah all but destoys the creatures,leaving a select few with full knowledge - Noah and his perfect generations - and from there we get Old testamant propheciies that tell us basically that Christ will come to rectify the situation..

The god of the OT is NOT the true Father that Christ speaks of,and this is abundantly clear if you allow more than the one source of heavily edited,deliberatly twisted half truths that are foiund in the Bible..

[Miss Hepburn]

Oh boy, are you in trouble, Pete...hahahahahaha..

Know truth and you will be free...yes, know Who God is or your Creator,
Source...where He is....abide in that Secret Place...meditation, stillness within
And you can't. HELP but be free!! I will say I am about 90% free...that's how it seems
to me anyway in comparison to where I used to be!!
And it was just last night I was shown even MORE !! How I am as small as an
itty bitty grain of sand in this body...but my consciousness is boundless and joined with the Absolute,
the One Divine Presence that dwells in ALL and everything...wow!
Set free?
I'll say...freer than even last week....and I was free then, too!!!!

That's the truth I'm talkin about! And thank you Jesus for all your help
pointing the way...and
David in the Psalms and John and the whole bunch of yous.
(In the Bible and not in the Bible.)
Thank you, thank you.

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by A human Being

I'm pretty sure that if I asked the Christians I know this question, they'd say something along the lines of 'the truth is that Jesus is our saviour and we have to repent our sins and ask Him for forgiveness in order to be saved.'

Most of the Christians on this board will be better-acquainted with the scriptures than me, I'm sure, so hopefully someone can provide me with some context. So my interpretation of the expression is maybe coming from a place of ignorance, but what it means to me is related to the attitude of dispassion and the true nature of reality - it's seeing the world from all viewpoints, seeing all of the picture and not the part of it you want to see.

To me it's intimately related to what Jesus said about seeing the world as small children, and being born again - I feel like many Christians don't actually get what he was getting at, that you have to give up all preconceptions in order to truly grasp the nature of reality.

Perhaps I have it wrong, as I say I'm coming at it from a position of relative ignorance, so I'd be interested to hear the perspectives of the Christians on the board.

A Human Being,

What an interesting topic, and generating such stimulating responses !

My answer to that question comes from considering it from a variety of perspectives, some of which I provide as references. Truth is not based on the name under which you catagorize your beliefs (Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, or whatever). THAT is the part you won't hear from those who've sought to keep access to the Truth about ourselves limited to ONLY a self-approved “credo” of beliefs espoused in some religion's scripture, filled with sanctioned interpretations about it. Our Creator did not create human beings as Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, or any religious faiths we associate with these or any other names (whether I've named them here or not!). These names, believed and acted upon as if relevant, only serve to hide the FACT that the Creator made ALL OF US of His Spirit and AS His Image.

Basically, the statement 'you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free' is encapsulated in the following statements:

As indicated in the 1st reference, "God is the Universal and 'man' is the universal individualized. Once the significance of this is seen it will revolutionize religious thought throughout the world. 'Jesus Christ' ... is 'man' living AS 'man' is meant to live! 'Jesus Christ' is 'man' functioning As 'man' is created to function. To function in the 'Christ Mind' is to function as 'Jesus Christ'.

Two thousand years ago it was not 'Jesus Christ' who walked As God ... it was God who walked as Jesus Christ.

'He' ... was God, living as all men were meant to live. Instead of 'worshiping' 'Jesus Christ' ... we were meant to WALK as 'Jesus Christ'. Each of us is an individual embodiment of God ... of the 'Source of All being'. An individualized embodiment of the Divine Mind. But ... in ignorance of this ... in ignorance of what we are ... we function As 'men'. Thus the necessity of that most significant of all commandments "YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN". Born into the realization that you are much more than the person that you now believe yourself to be. Each of us is the Source individualized ... God individualized! This is what the world's religious leaders have failed to discover. This is why humanity has become so divided. WE ARE ALL ONE! This is the Truth that the world has failed to see."

This is the Truth that shall set you free ! Why ?

WE ARE PERFECT EVEN AS OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT......

.....because the Creator created US and ALL the principles of Life out of His Own perfect, Divine pattern.

......whether you know that this is so, whether you do not believe this is so, or whether you are ignorant that this is so.

….and as also indicated in the 2nd reference, "Perfection does not come from projecting our own ideas but from awakening to the knowledge that it is already the established order of things."

That is the lesson we can learn from Adam and Eve….

The Creator Himself IS the VERY pattern by which mankind was made. Our Father is Jesus just as Our Father is EACH of us...the exact Spirit and Likeness of Himself. We are PERFECTLY CREATED SPIRITUAL BEINGS, who have forgotten Who we are....fully capable of doing ALL that Jesus does, AS Jesus does. How ? Jesus' message and reason for coming to this earthly dimension was to show us, in as stark, as uncompromising, and as definitive a manner as possible, that we are as He is, which is as our Creator endowed us all to be, and that is as immortal, Spiritual beings who are the Spirit and Image of our Creator. We are NOT physical beings. We are Spiritual Beings like He is!

Consider that the the truth about the "reach" of our very understanding of REALITY is that each and every advancement has come about AFTER WE DISCOVERED WHAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TRUE, AND WAITING FOR US TO DISCOVER IT....

...even when the tightly held ideas WE THOUGHT WERE TRUE were REALLY based on false information and dogma, WHICH virtually everyone believed, transmitted, and acted upon AS IF TRUE .....that is, until others, following their OWN ideas came along, who had quantifiable, repeatable, verifiable evidence based on a DIFFERENT set of ideas that turned the paradigm of established scientific or religious consensus on its head !!

Can there be any truer indictment of the history of mankind’s exploration and discovery of both scientific and religious Truth than to acknowledge that it is replete with examples of this or that scientist or religious prelate pontificating that this or that phenomena is impossible ???

If you understand that the words "limitations" and "grasp" are simply metaphors for "beliefs", then it becomes transparently obvious that transcending "limitations" and exceeding "grasp" is really an exercise in PERCEIVING REALITY IN ITS TRUE DIMENSIONS.....AND APPLYING THE UNDERSTANDING THEREFROM ACCORDINGLY.

Do the Heavens still rotate around the Earth? Not after Copernicus, Kepler, and Galileo. Are time and space separate from one another? Not after Einstein. Did you get your vaccines this year? Thanks to Pasteur you did. Is the Earth still flat? Ask Erikson, Columbus or Magellan for the answer. Do you have to study your science homework or read the scriptures of whatever faith you profess in the dark? Not after a little help from Gutenburg and Edison. You can readily see the impact of individuals with their OWN ideas helping other individuals change THEIR ideas about these things, which eventually results in the civilization changing, right?

The "belief" in limitation must then be seen to be SELF-IMPOSED......and if self-imposed....

....IT MUST BE SELF-REMOVED !!

If we really thought about it, if the accomplishment of miracles was not ALSO based on perfect, unchangeable principles, Jesus would not have been able to truthfully say to us, "Greater things than these shall you also do." Not so just one person can do it (Him), but so that anybody could do it, following relevant principles. Our Creator is the life of each and every one of us, regardless of the name we call ourselves. It is in Him and through Him that we ALL have our Being. That is why Jesus said, "Of myself, I can do nothing. It is the Father in me who does the works." I believe that statement is the very Truth about ALL of us. Of ourselves, we can do nothing. It is the Father within us who does the works, too! No different than it is for our Brother, Jesus. Or for our Sisters, either. Male AND female made He (our Creator) them. It's what Jesus came to show us; this way to perceive ourselves aright. But we got sidetracked and mislead to accept that Jesus, Himself, was our salvation, instead of understanding through the example of His life and resurrection that His and our Father is the very Life of all.

This does not mean just the life of those who call themselves Christians, and TO HELL WITH EVERYONE ELSE!

We ALL are Sons AND Daughters of the Most High, but we have forgotten Who we, and EACH OTHER are!

Our Creator, I AM, is EQUALLY accessible to ANY and ALL, regardless of who they think they are, or what they call themselves or someone else....WHOSOEVER WILL MAY COME.

Many have misunderstood what Jesus meant when the Bible states: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

I believe that this does NOT mean that Jesus is STANDING IN THE WAY to our Father.

This means that Jesus is SHOWING US THE WAY to our Father....through the I AM inside of US!!!

We are not supposed to just follow the Master, Jesus.

We are invited to follow the Master's EXAMPLE!!!

We are invited to FOLLOW WHAT HE FOLLOWED, which is....His and Our Father.....the I AM which is in Him, as well as in us!

....in order to REAWAKEN and REALIZE our OWN mastery AS SPIRITUAL BEINGS, not to subjugate ourselves to His mastery. We are ALSO as Jesus is, which is as our Creator endowed us all to be, and that is as immortal, spiritual beings who are the Spirit and Image of our Creator.

The I AM in US is ALSO the same I AM Who is in our Brother, Jesus!!

We are to FOLLOW THE I AM residing in ourselves, just as He does!

We are supposed to realize this Truth within, and for, OURSELVES, that Jesus also realized as Truth within Himself.

We are EACH to realize the Christ within OURSELVES, even as Jesus did. Our Creator did not intend Jesus to be the ONLY ONE who realizes this. We ALL are included in this. No one, ANYWHERE, is excluded....because our Creator INCLUDES US ALL IN HIMSELF....

WHOSOEVER WILL MAY COME…..Come to the Father, I AM, through the Christ in Yourself.

I AM IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE....

As author Baird Spalding also says in the 2nd reference, ”Becoming aware of yourself as a spiritual being, offspring of an infinite spiritual system and one with all the powers and capacities within that system, is the very essence of attainment. To grow from the present state of awareness of himself as a material being and into the consciousness that he is a spiritual being contains the full secret of man's attainment.' Man's nature cannot be reversed for he always remains a spiritual being. He can only reverse his notion of himself. Instead of doing this, he should reverse his mistaken idea that he is a material being and retain the truth that he is a spiritual being created in the image and likeness of God."

It is ironic that, until He realizes Who He (and everyone else) is, and has always been, Man usually amasses an advanced maturity of years of pain and suffering in ignoble ignorance of the greatness of His true estate. Perfection Itself, created US perfectly, though most of us, while exploring the enormity of the Gift of Life, will make mistakes.

Ignorance of immutable Truth acts PRECISELY like ignorance of the perfect operation of a mathematical equation ALWAYS and INVARIABLY produces incorrect results. The solution can only be experienced when we recognize AND apply the Truth to ourselves or to the equation.

And the CORRECT APPLICATION of the Truth results in a LIFE LIVED ABUNDANTLY...PRECISELY like the correct application of the perfect operation of a mathematical equation ALWAYS and INVARIABLY produces CORRECT results. The solution can only be experienced when we recognize AND apply the Truth to ourselves (just as in an equation).

We must RE-awaken to the knowledge that OUR OWN PERFECTION within this infinite Spiritual system is ALREADY the established order of things....and act accordingly.

The fact is, that Man, created as the very Spirit and Image of the Creator, Himself.....IS the MIRACLE which awaits Mankind's discovery (grasp) of that immutable Truth every moment of Eternity.

In one form or another, enlightened teachers who discovered and taught the Truth in various cultures demonstrated, by the example of their own lives, that we are as our Creator endowed us all to be, and that is as immortal, Spiritual beings who are the Spirit and Image of our Creator. The teachers did NOT do this to form religions OR philosophies.

They simply lived the eternal Truth that has ALWAYS been......

We are eternally invited to do the same....

As Genevieve Behrend indicates in the 3rd reference, "Endeavor to bear in mind that your mental picture is Universal Mind specifically exercising its inherent powers of initiative and selection. God, or Universal Mind, made man for the special purpose of differentiating Himself through him. Everything there is, came into existence in this same way, by this self-same law of self-differentiation, and for the same purpose. First came the idea, the mental picture, or the prototype of the thing, which is the thing itself in its incipiency. The Great Architect of the Universe contemplated Himself as manifesting through his polar opposite—matter—and the idea expanded and projected itself until we have not only a world, but many worlds."
...a photograph of which I invite you to enjoy...as the 4th source.

Finally, in this excerpt from the 5th source, Autobiography of a Yogi, Sri Yukteswar, the guru of author Paramhansa Yogananda, describes the events by which a liberated Soul finally returns to the state of being from whence we ALL have come: "So long as the soul of man is encased in one, two, or three body-containers, sealed tightly with the corks of ignorance and desires, he cannot merge with the sea of Spirit. When the gross physical receptacle is destroyed by the hammer of death, the other two coverings-astral and causal-still remain to prevent the soul from consciously joining the Omnipresent Life. When desirelessness is attained through wisdom, its power disintegrates the two remaining vessels. The tiny human soul emerges, free at last; it is one with the Measureless Amplitude." "When a soul is out of the cocoon of the three bodies it escapes forever from the law of relativity and becomes the ineffable Ever-Existent. Behold the butterfly of Omnipresence, its wings etched with stars and moons and suns! The soul expanded into Spirit remains alone in the region of lightless light, darkless dark, thoughtless thought, intoxicated with its ecstasy of joy in God's dream of cosmic creation." Sri Yukteswar goes on to say, "When a soul finally gets out of the three jars of bodily delusions, it becomes one with the Infinite without any loss of individuality. Christ had won this final freedom even before he was born as Jesus. In three stages of his past, symbolized in his earth-life as the three days of his experience of death and resurrection, he had attained the power to fully arise in Spirit."

Do you see ?

'You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free'...

The Creator is Who We, and each other are...

The Creator is ALL there is to BE any thing or any one.

I AM THAT I AM AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO OTHER

....means exactly that.

Hope this helps...

Reference: http://www.thechristmind.org/god.htm

Reference: Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East (Vols 1-6) by Baird T. Spalding

Reference: http://www.lightisreal.com/YourInvisiblePower.pdf by Genevieve Beherend

Reference: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap100824.html

Reference: http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap43.php

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Hello Miss H Well - Im free to get myself in trouble if I so choose..lol..

Free Will is really what Christ is ALL about,the free DIVINE Will,that is..yes,abide always in the Secret Place - build for yourself,the Holy of Holies,for Solomans temple is a physical vessel primarily - a construct to allow Divinity to commune here and now..It is also the gateway that allows US to instigate this mergng,remebering of Self,and for that we do indeed need the secret and silent place deep within..Yes,freedom is there - free from preconceptions,opinions,expectations - thisis why Christ is the ONLY way,for we MUST forego the mortal paradigm and embrace this Divine knowledg eof Self complelty - live it,become it..

For that reason primarily,Christ actually advised AGAINST an organised religion,teling us that public worship is an egoic game - "look at me how pious Iam,more holy than thou" - where actually,true Divinity is WITHIN you,and the public display is a hinderance to this internal realisation..Go alone Christ says,in secret,in silence,and Our Father will ANSWER you,within that place,NOT out in the public temple !! We begi nto see why the authorities feared His true teaching..Christ is surely teling us to go alone and meditate !! And indeed,isnt the Sabbath also,a command to do exactly that..?..Put away earthly concerns for a day,and do nothing except contemplate god..Christ takes it further,and says we should be in the sabbath - purposeful communion - ALL the time,moment to moment,hold the full realisation of the Divine presence..And obviously,this is not something that ANY OTHER MAN can do for us - it is an internal perspective of Self,in union with the entire creation,without any seperation or egoic heirachy..

YES for sure,our timy grain of sand of mortal Consciousness,is indeed an eternal part of a boundless,limitless entity that creates all perceived experential existance - and it is possible even for us,limited handicapped as we are;even WE can share this creative potential - create for ourselves,our deepest desires,once we come to know Self to a full and honest degree..Freedom,is creativity.. WE ARE THE FATHER Christ speaks of - We ARE THE UNIVERSE - made from and by the same process..Come to know this,and the universe out there,naturally,follows the dictates of our Will,for there is NO speration,only an illusion of form that makes it appear so..The more we realise this,the more the universe dutifully obeys us,and thus,heaven on Earth can be ours - IS our birthright..And thanks - YES - you cannot help BUT give thanks,for just having the knowledge is simply the most awesome thing that can be given you,ever..All the fears,worries,on every levle of our Being,literally banished in an instant as little self meets and beomes Greater Self - Thank you Father,deeply,eternally,for this unshakable foundation of security,safe in His presence always.. Namaste..

Pete; Thank you for your summary of your beliefs. Really interesting. I have heard something similar before but not the whole picture. I shall soon be reading the Nag Hammadi scriptures. I'm looking forward to it even more after reading your post.