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  #1  
Old 30-07-2017, 01:50 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Being right on the 8 fold path

I see this section has greatly improved as the levels of overt reactivity has become quite moderate, and sometimes having a person leave the ashram makes the place peaceful, as a spiritual place ought to be. It's important that a person feels welcome and safe and the intentions shared among people are for mutual benefit. We sometimes find an appearance of a hope to help, and I know it only a desire for the guru position, a need to be appreciated or some other thing, so intent is a very delicate thing, and intent, motive, volition, will, is critical in Buddhism, because that's what kamma is, and Buddhism is largely about ending the kammic cycle.

Let's not get confused by thinking the stuff that happens to us is kamma. Kamma is volition, volition produces results, and what happens to would be the results of past kamma, and not kamma itself. How we react, our attitudes of goodwill or illwill toward these results, is kamma. Our volition, desire for and aversion to, 'will toward' - is what kamma is. If you want happiness but feel bitter toward something, that's like wanting a mango crop but planting lemon seeds. The seeds are kamma. The fruit is results.

To go any deeper into that would be complicated, and this is the 'soundbite generation', whose attention span is equal to a tweet hahaha, so it should come out in a series of short posts - rather than in my laboriously boring monologue .
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  #2  
Old 30-07-2017, 02:18 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohdiyana
Maybe better worded as "if we react" instead of "how we react" All hows is kamma.

Ok. "If" .
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  #3  
Old 30-07-2017, 07:50 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I see this section has greatly improved as the levels of overt reactivity has become quite moderate, and sometimes having a person leave the ashram makes the place peaceful, as a spiritual place ought to be. It's important that a person feels welcome and safe and the intentions shared among people are for mutual benefit. We sometimes find an appearance of a hope to help, and I know it only a desire for the guru position, a need to be appreciated or some other thing, so intent is a very delicate thing, and intent, motive, volition, will, is critical in Buddhism, because that's what kamma is, and Buddhism is largely about ending the kammic cycle.

Let's not get confused by thinking the stuff that happens to us is kamma. Kamma is volition, volition produces results, and what happens to would be the results of past kamma, and not kamma itself. How we react, our attitudes of goodwill or illwill toward these results, is kamma. Our volition, desire for and aversion to, 'will toward' - is what kamma is. If you want happiness but feel bitter toward something, that's like wanting a mango crop but planting lemon seeds. The seeds are kamma. The fruit is results.

To go any deeper into that would be complicated, and this is the 'soundbite generation', whose attention span is equal to a tweet hahaha, so it should come out in a series of short posts - rather than in my laboriously boring monologue .
.

Thankyou for sharing and (not because I have an attention span of a tweet .. Hehe)but a question arose rather spontaneously as I took it in..

The main point in all this that your showing as important would be what? Just pretend I am not a Buddhist (lol) and I need the cold hard facts that relate to the real lived experience, how does t fit in me that way to understand what your sharing?
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  #4  
Old 30-07-2017, 08:10 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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"And this, monks, is the noble truth of the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress: precisely this Noble Eightfold Path —
right view,
right resolve,
right speech,
right action,
right livelihood,
right effort,
right mindfulness,
right concentration.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....011.than.html
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  #5  
Old 30-07-2017, 09:51 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesflow
.

Thankyou for sharing and (not because I have an attention span of a tweet .. Hehe)but a question arose rather spontaneously as I took it in..

The main point in all this that your showing as important would be what? Just pretend I am not a Buddhist (lol) and I need the cold hard facts that relate to the real lived experience, how does t fit in me that way to understand what your sharing?

Yes, I started with the 8 path, which Ground kindly listed, but then went ahead of myself to work backwards from there, but as usual, for me, there is a lot going at once rather than than a really specific point.

I think first it's to clarify what is meant by 'kamma', because people seem to think that kamma means consequence of action, but it doesn't. It means will, motive, intent, volition, and the word 'right' in Buddhism mainly pertains to that.

The reason I raise this point is because I know that when the other kind of 'being right' comes up, the threads blow up into a fray, which means in Buddhist terms something is going wrong, so it becomes important to understand what is 'right' as used in Buddhism - since 'being right' leads to so much going wrong.

I seem to be able to speak as someone who knows about Buddhist teachings and what they imply without creating a storm, so it isn't the knowledge itself that causes ripples in lake placid. It's the motive behind the use of knowledge... which is to assert power positions...

All that aside, it comes down to motive, intent... for in my case I know that I know a thing or two about the dhamma, but I haven't any agenda, no wish to be the resident guru or the wise old teacher, because all that is completely ridiculous, and I don't mind if people if people misunderstand the teaching, or if they are plain wrong. I simply can't use that to make myself right, because 'right' in Buddhist terms is an entirely different thing, and it has very nuanced meanings.

The 8 path lists - 'right' this and that - and there are explanations about 'right view', 'right speech' and so on - and by looking into the 8 path and some of the explanations, one can get a better sense of what 'right' means in Buddhist discourses, and I believe if it is better understood, then we might reduce the importance of the kind of 'being right' which makes everything go wrong - and benefit by understanding 'right' in its more nuanced senses..
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  #6  
Old 30-07-2017, 10:14 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Yes, I started with the 8 path, which Ground kindly listed, but then went ahead of myself to work backwards from there, but as usual, for me, there is a lot going at once rather than than a really specific point.

I think first it's to clarify what is meant by 'kamma', because people seem to think that kamma means consequence of action, but it doesn't. It means will, motive, intent, volition, and the word 'right' in Buddhism mainly pertains to that.

The reason I raise this point is because I know that when the other kind of 'being right' comes up, the threads blow up into a fray, which means in Buddhist terms something is going wrong, so it becomes important to understand what is 'right' as used in Buddhism - since 'being right' leads to so much going wrong.

I seem to be able to speak as someone who knows about Buddhist teachings and what they imply without creating a storm, so it isn't the knowledge itself that causes ripples in lake placid. It's the motive behind the use of knowledge... which is to assert power positions...

All that aside, it comes down to motive, intent... for in my case I know that I know a thing or two about the dhamma, but I haven't any agenda, no wish to be the resident guru or the wise old teacher, because all that is completely ridiculous, and I don't mind if people if people misunderstand the teaching, or if they are plain wrong. I simply can't use that to make myself right, because 'right' in Buddhist terms is an entirely different thing, and it has very nuanced meanings.

The 8 path lists - 'right' this and that - and there are explanations about 'right view', 'right speech' and so on - and by looking into the 8 path and some of the explanations, one can get a better sense of what 'right' means in Buddhist discourses, and I believe if it is better understood, then we might reduce the importance of the kind of 'being right' which makes everything go wrong - and benefit by understanding 'right' in its more nuanced senses..

Ok that is both very clear and also very informative in ways for someone taking in a more connected relationship to key Buddhist teachings. I find it interesting that reading this has my attention naturally and for the first time in the Buddhist section, I actually feel like this way of modelling knowledge and awareness excites me to learn more. I find like your mentioning that the "right intent" becomes suffocated by the wrong kind of right and my attention turns off or simply becomes distracted away from what could be an offering of clear open learning of Buddhism.

Thankyou. Finally someone shows a more clear intent and offering that excites me to want to learn more.
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Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder
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  #7  
Old 30-07-2017, 01:39 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I see this section has greatly improved as the levels of overt reactivity has become quite moderate, and sometimes having a person leave the ashram makes the place peaceful, as a spiritual place ought to be. It's important that a person feels welcome and safe and the intentions shared among people are for mutual benefit. We sometimes find an appearance of a hope to help, and I know it only a desire for the guru position, a need to be appreciated or some other thing, so intent is a very delicate thing, and intent, motive, volition, will, is critical in Buddhism, because that's what kamma is, and Buddhism is largely about ending the kammic cycle.

Let's not get confused by thinking the stuff that happens to us is kamma. Kamma is volition, volition produces results, and what happens to would be the results of past kamma, and not kamma itself. How we react, our attitudes of goodwill or illwill toward these results, is kamma. Our volition, desire for and aversion to, 'will toward' - is what kamma is. If you want happiness but feel bitter toward something, that's like wanting a mango crop but planting lemon seeds. The seeds are kamma. The fruit is results.

To go any deeper into that would be complicated, and this is the 'soundbite generation', whose attention span is equal to a tweet hahaha, so it should come out in a series of short posts - rather than in my laboriously boring monologue .


When I first heard of the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path I thought....what a pity we couldn't go into a Pharmacist and buy a bottle of Noble 4x8 tablets, world problems solved
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  #8  
Old 30-07-2017, 03:25 PM
Jeremy Bong Jeremy Bong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I see this section has greatly improved as the levels of overt reactivity has become quite moderate, and sometimes having a person leave the ashram makes the place peaceful, as a spiritual place ought to be. It's important that a person feels welcome and safe and the intentions shared among people are for mutual benefit. We sometimes find an appearance of a hope to help, and I know it only a desire for the guru position, a need to be appreciated or some other thing, so intent is a very delicate thing, and intent, motive, volition, will, is critical in Buddhism, because that's what kamma is, and Buddhism is largely about ending the kammic cycle.

Let's not get confused by thinking the stuff that happens to us is kamma. Kamma is volition, volition produces results, and what happens to would be the results of past kamma, and not kamma itself. How we react, our attitudes of goodwill or illwill toward these results, is kamma. Our volition, desire for and aversion to, 'will toward' - is what kamma is. If you want happiness but feel bitter toward something, that's like wanting a mango crop but planting lemon seeds. The seeds are kamma. The fruit is results.

To go any deeper into that would be complicated, and this is the 'soundbite generation', whose attention span is equal to a tweet hahaha, so it should come out in a series of short posts - rather than in my laboriously boring monologue .

We learned these again and again. But not many "dare or want" to follow but only lead others astray or punishment. So I don't see any use of it. Someone even said, no karma effect. They never believe what's not favorable to them. They prefer free will of doing good or bad things without limited by karma or karma can be deleted after doing of bad things? That's funny...
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Old 30-07-2017, 04:36 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I see this section has greatly improved as the levels of overt reactivity has become quite moderate, and sometimes having a person leave the ashram makes the place peaceful, as a spiritual place ought to be. It's important that a person feels welcome and safe and the intentions shared among people are for mutual benefit. We sometimes find an appearance of a hope to help, and I know it only a desire for the guru position, a need to be appreciated or some other thing, so intent is a very delicate thing, and intent, motive, volition, will, is critical in Buddhism, because that's what kamma is, and Buddhism is largely about ending the kammic cycle.

Let's not get confused by thinking the stuff that happens to us is kamma. Kamma is volition, volition produces results, and what happens to would be the results of past kamma, and not kamma itself. How we react, our attitudes of goodwill or illwill toward these results, is kamma. Our volition, desire for and aversion to, 'will toward' - is what kamma is. If you want happiness but feel bitter toward something, that's like wanting a mango crop but planting lemon seeds. The seeds are kamma. The fruit is results.

To go any deeper into that would be complicated, and this is the 'soundbite generation', whose attention span is equal to a tweet hahaha, so it should come out in a series of short posts - rather than in my laboriously boring monologue .
I hear you but something is missing in all that. It simply explains that life is cause and effect and that the effect changes based on volition or how you react. It doesn't address not reacting or how or why one would desire if you will not to react one way or the other.
I don't have any answers but I think you have to go deeper in order to gain right understanding which might reveal the cause of being in an existence that Buddhism seems to be about transcending altogether. Otherwise happiness becomes the goal.
I don't have a problem with that but it's just not what I think the Buddha was trying to show us.
Anyways that's my take on how I understood your post.
Personally I'd like you to go deeper
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Old 30-07-2017, 05:24 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong
We learned these again and again. But not many "dare or want" to follow but only lead others astray or punishment. So I don't see any use of it. Someone even said, no karma effect. They never believe what's not favorable to them. They prefer free will of doing good or bad things without limited by karma or karma can be deleted after doing of bad things? That's funny...

It's a valuable Buddhist Teaching Jeremy, now if people want to follow them or not is their choice. We will never know the benefits if we don't try, we have a lot to gain and nothing to lose
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