Find the cause of suffering

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Gem

The basis of Gotama's teachings is to acknowledge ones own suffering, find the cause, and thus end suffering.

Most of us suffer and find cause in external things that hurt us. This means suffering is linked to sensation. The question is, does sensation cause suffering, or is it the way we relate to sensation that is cause?

In the meditation, mindfulness, we are aware of ourselves, body, mind, emotion, just as they are as they happen to arise. The obstacle to this is 'distraction'. We can drift off into autopilot and become unconscious of what is actually happening, and instead, live in an imaginary world created in reaction to the actual real lived experience.

In sitting practice we soon see we are aware of our sensation and thought, and then we drift away into imaginary pasts, futures and fantasies. It's not bad or incorrect to do this. The meditation practice just enables a conscious recognition of it. Now you know, 'so this is what I do'.

From that preliminary, the the same process of being aware, noticing and discovering continues, revealing the truth about ourselves. Through this process of 'sati' we soon come to learn about how we relate to sensation - including physical, emotional and psychological - and come to realise how we cause our own suffering by relating to sensation in a somewhat delusional way.

Once this cause is identified, each new arising of suffering is recognised as 'something I do', rather than 'something that happens to me'... and we are thereby led to understand the way to bring suffering to an end.

Ignorance (of True Self)

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by Shaunc

Rather than finding the cause of suffering wouldn't our time and energy be better spent on finding the cessation of suffering.

I guess it depends on your current situation. If you're not suffering then it would be a waste of time and energy worrying about it. If you are already suffering and you feel something can be done about it, then do it. If not then accept it. You don't have to like it but you can accept it. Resisting suffering just makes it stronger. More easier to accept that suffering is a part of life and that it will happen regardless of how detached one pretends to be.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

The basis of Gotama's teachings is to acknowledge ones own suffering, find the cause, and thus end suffering.

Most of us suffer and find cause in external things that hurt us. This means suffering is linked to sensation. The question is, does sensation cause suffering, or is it the way we relate to sensation that is cause?

In the meditation, mindfulness, we are aware of ourselves, body, mind, emotion, just as they are as they happen to arise. The obstacle to this is 'distraction'. We can drift off into autopilot and become unconscious of what is actually happening, and instead, live in an imaginary world created in reaction to the actual real lived experience.

In sitting practice we soon see we are aware of our sensation and thought, and then we drift away into imaginary pasts, futures and fantasies. It's not bad or incorrect to do this. The meditation practice just enables a conscious recognition of it. Now you know, 'so this is what I do'.

From that preliminary, the the same process of being aware, noticing and discovering continues, revealing the truth about ourselves. Through this process of 'sati' we soon come to learn about how we relate to sensation - including physical, emotional and psychological - and come to realise how we cause our own suffering by relating to sensation in a somewhat delusional way.

Once this cause is identified, each new arising of suffering is recognised as 'something I do', rather than 'something that happens to me'... and we are thereby led to understand the way to bring suffering to an end.

Thankyou for sharing.

I relate this to the point of when I realized that to end all suffering in myself I had to take full responsibility for all things reacting, moving in myself, creating ideas about, with regards to all external occurrence's. This was a turning point for myself to learn that I could go that deep in myself from moment to moment of my life and grow through the lived the experience rather than just through a sitting practice as such, I make use of the sitting practice as my "presence wherever I am" practice in the life experience itself... In some ways you might call this a conscious living the meditation practice. Now I see things more directly as they are including myself, and my movements are often much less in relation to external matters now. Staying present feels less draining, less taxing and effortless now.

IN reading through your words, it shows me what I believe, that the potential to end suffering is only as real as deep and real you can get with yourself. Being totally self reflective with all occurrence's going on within the mind/body system, to become the bridge to pure consciousness or spiritual transcendence. My own mystical experiences allowed me to see this early on in my process, to show me the way to moving from mind to feeling mode to release the fullness of my own involvement through a faster manifestation process that was coming in the future as one.

Also through this process, I was able to notice the differences between detachment and resting more open and aware in the fullness of knowing/clear feeling and seeing. I remember going that deep into each strain of my own personal issues connected to my own suffering, that I could pull the root completely away eventually, allowing a clean canvas to be created ready for planting. There are many ways to heal and end suffering, but certainly I relate to the end of suffering when you can find all end points in your own mind/body awareness that no longer reacts to itself..

[Rain95]

For me, one cause of self caused suffering is my relationship with some negative thoughts. Total and absolute detachment from them is needed to end the suffering. The kind of detachment where they are a million miles away, so far, I could not discern what they were saying even if I wanted to. It's not a resisting or avoiding kind of detachment, that would mean the negative thoughts are still there somehow or still have some power. It's more like letting in an intense light that wholly dissolves them into nothingness. Then one is in a totally free expansive open joyful state.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

Yes that's how I feel, attachments, cravings are the problem, not the desires.

I thought craving and desire were just the same thing.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

I thought craving and desire were just the same thing.

There are healthy desires and unhealthy desires, healthy are aspirations but cravings become obsessive and cause suffering when there not fullfilled. We can't exist without desires they motivate us but we just move on when they don't turn out the way we want or expect them to, cravings cause us to hold on and cling,

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

For me, one cause of self caused suffering is my relationship with some negative thoughts. Total and absolute detachment from them is needed to end the suffering. The kind of detachment where they are a million miles away, so far, I could not discern what they were saying even if I wanted to. It's not a resisting or avoiding kind of detachment, that would mean the negative thoughts are still there somehow or still have some power. It's more like letting in an intense light that wholly dissolves them into nothingness. Then one is in a totally free expansive open joyful state.

I try to replace a negative thought with a possitive thought or I don't follow the negative ones down the motorway but leave it on the lay-by
Different methods work for different people but as long as they work that's what's important.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

I thought craving and desire were just the same thing.

I get confused with Buddhist meanings. I read somewhere once, that Dukkha doesn't translate as suffering but rather dissatisfaction. So meanings can be confusing.. Likewise with the cause of Dukkha not desire, but craving .. So who brought desire and and suffering into all this?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I get confused with Buddhist meanings. I read somewhere once, that Dukkha doesn't translate as suffering but rather dissatisfaction. So meanings can be confusing.. Likewise with the cause of Dukkha not desire, but craving .. So who brought desire and and suffering into all this?

I think the second post said cause is aversion and desire.

To me it seems like things have been said before and we like to take them as answers and repeat them. I have heard all these same answers very many times.

The word Dukkha is one of those words that doesn't have a particular English translation because in Pali it means a wide range of things depending on the context it is used in. It's all important as a word only because of the religious significance the Buddhist religion gives it. When people say it means 'disatisfaction' they only repeat something they heard (probably read it on accesstoinsight or something like that). It's a fair enough way of understanding the word in relation to how our sense-experience is never really satisfying.

I wasn't looking for answers when I wrote the OP. It's supposed to be an exploration, but we were given the answer in post # 2, and I thought we could all go home. But wait! Someone says it isn't the answer - something else is the answer - but I wonder if anyone is actually watching the mind as it grasps for 'the right answer'.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

There are healthy desires and unhealthy desires

That would seem arbitrary

healthy are aspirations but cravings become obsessive and cause suffering when there not fullfilled.

So a person feels unfufilled with their current living experience.

We can't exist without desires

I'm not so sure about that.

they motivate us but we just move on when they don't turn out the way we want or expect them to, cravings cause us to hold on and cling,

We probably just move on to a different object of desire.