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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #1  
Old 09-10-2018, 01:04 AM
django django is offline
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Is there submission to a greater force in Buddhism?

I have found the moment of submitting to a greater force, acknowledging that 'I' am not enough, to be both vital and life-changing to me.

But I am currently finding a lot of truth in some of the Tibetan Buddhist attainments, especially clear light.

My question is, in Buddhism/Tibetan Buddhism, is there also a moment of submitting to some greater force/Buddha, because I can't imagine attaining anything without this crucial 'submission to something greater' moment.
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  #2  
Old 09-10-2018, 04:58 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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I had a huge reply typed out..

I don't know much about Buddhism... except for Vajrayana Tantric Buddhism according to Agama Vedic Dharma.

Some Buddhists surrender to/take refuge in the Triple Gem...The Tripitaka.
Some surrender to the mercy of Tara, Maya or Quan Yin
Some surrender to the Dharma Shastra or the Mantra "Om Mane Padme Hum"
Some surrender to compassion and loving kindness
Some surrender to Vairochana, Adi Buddha and the Kalachakra (tis what I do...)

That's all I know.
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:18 AM
wstein wstein is offline
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No.

Once you stop thinking there is a self, there is no one to do any submitting.

Similarly, there is no self for anyone else either. Thus there is no one to submit to.
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  #4  
Old 09-10-2018, 06:31 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
I have found the moment of submitting to a greater force, acknowledging that 'I' am not enough, to be both vital and life-changing to me.

But I am currently finding a lot of truth in some of the Tibetan Buddhist attainments, especially clear light.

My question is, in Buddhism/Tibetan Buddhism, is there also a moment of submitting to some greater force/Buddha, because I can't imagine attaining anything without this crucial 'submission to something greater' moment.


Submitting to a greater force is not part of Buddha's Teachings.

" In Buddhism there are no divine revelations or divine messengers. A Buddhist is, therefore, not subservient to any higher supernatural power which controls his destinies and which arbitrarily rewards and punishes. Since Buddhists do not believe in revelations of a divine being Buddhism does not claim the monopoly of truth and does not condemn any other religion. But Buddhism recognizes the infinite latent possibilities of man and teaches that man can gain deliverance from suffering by his own efforts independent of divine help."
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:20 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
I have found the moment of submitting to a greater force, acknowledging that 'I' am not enough, to be both vital and life-changing to me.

But I am currently finding a lot of truth in some of the Tibetan Buddhist attainments, especially clear light.

My question is, in Buddhism/Tibetan Buddhism, is there also a moment of submitting to some greater force/Buddha, because I can't imagine attaining anything without this crucial 'submission to something greater' moment.




I think Shavani makes a fair point in saying surrender is like 'refuge' in Buddhism, but I have no idea about Tibetan Buddhism, so can't reasonably comment on that.
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:23 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by wstein
No.

Once you stop thinking there is a self, there is no one to do any submitting.

Similarly, there is no self for anyone else either. Thus there is no one to submit to.




Fair point, and basically aligned with Buddhist philosophy in that Buddhism doesn't teach a theory of self.
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:47 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Submitting to a greater force is not part of Buddha's Teachings.

" In Buddhism there are no divine revelations or divine messengers. A Buddhist is, therefore, not subservient to any higher supernatural power which controls his destinies and which arbitrarily rewards and punishes. Since Buddhists do not believe in revelations of a divine being Buddhism does not claim the monopoly of truth and does not condemn any other religion. But Buddhism recognizes the infinite latent possibilities of man and teaches that man can gain deliverance from suffering by his own efforts independent of divine help."
The Divine Messengers are called the Apsaras...

I am going to be very "Buddhist " here....There are MANY different schools of Buddhism, each liking to think their own schools and teachings are superior and authoritarian.

For example, so many times, I read "in Buddhism, it says this" when the statement is over generalised, because in the Buddhism that I follow says the opposite...but then, the "truth" becomes a self righteous concept...The schools of Buddhism all vary according to the country they were adopted in...from Java to aNepal and back again.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:04 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
The Divine Messengers are called the Apsaras...

I am going to be very "Buddhist " here....There are MANY different schools of Buddhism, each liking to think their own schools and teachings are superior and authoritarian.

For example, so many times, I read "in Buddhism, it says this" when the statement is over generalised, because in the Buddhism that I follow says the opposite...but then, the "truth" becomes a self righteous concept...The schools of Buddhism all vary according to the country they were adopted in...from Java to aNepal and back again.




Its like pizza. The same sort of thing but so many different kinds.
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:34 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
I have found the moment of submitting to a greater force, acknowledging that 'I' am not enough, to be both vital and life-changing to me.

But I am currently finding a lot of truth in some of the Tibetan Buddhist attainments, especially clear light.

My question is, in Buddhism/Tibetan Buddhism, is there also a moment of submitting to some greater force/Buddha, because I can't imagine attaining anything without this crucial 'submission to something greater' moment.
I am sort of with you on this one.
I think in general – in Buddhism you do surrender to Reality “What Is”. (From unreal 'concepts' to actual reality - what is happening).
And your or anyone’s "Assemblage point of Awareness" i.e. Reality can be from ego-centric Amygdala melt down trigger heads to detached “Witness” to “Realized Being” - depending “where you are at”.

In Vajrayana, you either work with the Mandala set-up or you surrender to “Guru”.
In Shamanism you take (similar to the Mandala), World Pole as you World View and what you end up with is a “Guru” or “Spirit guidance” until you become "Self realized".

P.S. I think that the "Clear Light" is at the junction of 'Witness' to 'Self Realized' (if you can handle it).

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Old 09-10-2018, 08:38 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
I have found the moment of submitting to a greater force, acknowledging that 'I' am not enough, to be both vital and life-changing to me.

But I am currently finding a lot of truth in some of the Tibetan Buddhist attainments, especially clear light.

My question is, in Buddhism/Tibetan Buddhism, is there also a moment of submitting to some greater force/Buddha, because I can't imagine attaining anything without this crucial 'submission to something greater' moment.

Very cool stuff.

Think of that submitting as more of a letting go and trusting. Trusting in yourself and what you experience. For example not being afraid of what you may experience in meditation or energy practices.

In Tibetan Buddhism lama means guru. It is not about submitting to the guru but trusting him/her and his/her guidance along the path. The guru path is about being open, trusting in others and using that to realize it within yourself at a much deeper level.

All practices are that way. Yidam deity practice is using those divine qualities of a Buddha to realize them within. It isn't about worshipping some Buddha.

Again, very cool stuff django.
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