Is Marriage a Covenant?

in my case, the involvement of my family in my 1st marriage was based on shame & my mammas' ethics. i was an unmarried mother & expecting my 2nd child. i was actually quite happy & content as i was with my partner, he had ask me to marry him & i declined but my mamma was ashamed of me as i went against everything she believed in by having children outside of wedlock. i was more or less marched down the aisle & even though i was 23 at the time i was still afraid of my mamma & 'did as i was told'. i spent the next 12 years in a very abusive marriage before i had the courage to leave.
my 2nd marriage however, was based on love.....there was no need for a reason to marry, it just felt the right thing to do.

[002 Cents]

Originally Posted by Shim

I have a daughter, and one day I hope to give her away to her husband. When God brought to Adam, Eve,-- in this culture a Father gives away his daughter at the wedding. 002 Cents brings up the point, should the family be involved in the marriage? Is marriage to serious of a step to be left up to emotion, therefore including the decisions of family?

If one includes scripture as a basis to support any interpretation, opinion, or one that has supported their decision making, the more the better...

In the end, you should want you daughter to do what is best for her but support whatever decision she comes to. For not supporting her will only damage your relationship with her, not her relationship with him.

Sometimes even when we mean well and we already know from experience. They have to learn on their own. Just be there when the time comes and she needs to pick up the pieces.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Shim

What is marriage? besides being a piece of paper or a certificate. When people divorce, and a creed of divorce is issued, does the covenant still remain? Are people allowed to remarry after divorce? if so, when? under what conditions?

My faith (typically) requires a written contract for marriage, and for divorce. The civil papers are only for Caesar...or whomever is in charge of the govt these days...LOL. But I do view marriage as a sacred bond made in front of God and community with love, honour, and respect.

As to the family...ideally everyone is on the same page in both directions. I personally could never ask anyone to choose me over their family. Ideally this sort of consideration would work in both directions.

Text refs: I believe there is something in the Torah about honouring your parents and also leaving your parents to make your own home. So it implies a 2-way communication with final say to the younger gen. Probably b/c they have to actually live with their choice...

I am not positive but I thought there was something about not forcing a mate on anyone but can't recall where exactly...scripture? commentary? midrash? I can check & get back to you.

I was married...and got a divorce. For me, the civil divorce was not enough. I also got a religious divorce (get). Otherwise, acc'd to my faith I was still married in the "eyes" of God and Israel. I am free to remarry, though there are a few restrictions. And you have to take them on faith...which tbh can be difficult and painful. I don't question the Law...but I wish the law (interpretation) had a little more latitude in a few areas.

Off the top, hope no big oversights, LOL...
Cheers!
7L

[Shabda]

in my opinion, marriage is a very sacred contract/union/agreement/whichever word one chooses to use, but it is sacred...of course it can only be sacred if the two people involved view it as such, two individuals in a bond of Love can create a VERY strong union, but unfortunately it doesnt always happen that way...how sacred of a bond it is depends on the individuals participating in it...

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shim, should a wife still respect her husband & still expect to be 'below' him in the ranking of the household when her husband is abusing her?? should she still submit herself to him when he is 'coverting thy neighbour'?
you see, i tried so hard to take my vows seriously & i prayed to god to give me the strength to get through the abuse & the mental stress i was going through because of my husband, but to me, it seemed he just had it in his plan to punish me for 12yrs. maybe i was being punished for having a child out of wedlock?
this is where any little bit of faith i had, went out the window.
when you are laid in a psychiatric ward because a man, who is suppose to be your husband & suppose to care for you has driven you to have a psychotic episode, you think about god alot & wonder why he had to make men superior to women. what was wrong with equality? & yes i know all about the apple & eve.
i will apologise for writing about such personal stuff in my life but i was trying to show an example.
deb

All covenants are nonsensical and we are doomed to suffer no matter how many covenants we have made. In the east at the wedding ceremony both, brined and bridegroom take a number of oaths before fire, since fire is considered sacred and even a deity and the exchange oaths keeping the fire as a witness but I say all is stupid and most marriages fail and covenants have no effects

[7luminaries]

Shim, some quotes from the below links...

The Torah provides very little guidance with regard to the procedures of a marriage. The method of finding a spouse, the form of the wedding ceremony, and the nature of the marital relationship are all explained in the Talmud.

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/marriage.htm
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/divorce.htm


OK, here's what I was looking for...of course historically is was understood and implicit that the man can not be acquired without his consent, and thus it's not stated.

In all cases, the Talmud specifies that a woman can be acquired only with her consent, and not without it. Kiddushin 2a-b. [the Talmud portion on Wives...]

Here's just a little text from the links...
Ketubah - marriage contract
As part of the wedding ceremony, the husband gives the wife a ketubah. The word "Ketubah" comes from the root Kaf-Tav-Bet, meaning writing. The ketubah is also called the marriage contract. The ketubah spells out the husband's obligations to the wife during marriage, conditions of inheritance upon his death, and obligations regarding the support of children of the marriage. It also provides for the wife's support in the event of divorce. There are standard conditions; however, additional conditions can be included by mutual agreement. Marriage agreements of this sort were commonplace in the ancient Semitic world. The ketubah is often a beautiful work of calligraphy, framed and displayed in the home.

The process of marriage occurs in two distinct stages: kiddushin (commonly translated as betrothal) and nisuin (full-fledged marriage). Kiddushin occurs when the woman accepts the money, contract, or sexual relations offered by the prospective husband. The word "kiddushin" comes from the root Qof-Dalet-Shin, meaning sanctified. It reflects the sanctity of the marital relation. However, the root word also connotes something that is set aside for a specific (sacred) purpose, and the ritual of kiddushin sets aside the woman to be the wife of a particular man and no other.

Kiddushin is far more binding than an engagement as the term is understood in modern customs of the West. Once the kiddushin is completed, the woman is legally the wife of the man. The relationship created by kiddushin can only be dissolved by death or divorce. However, the spouses do not live together at that time, and the mutual obligations created by the marital relationship do not take effect until the nisuin is complete.

The nisuin (from a word meaning elevation) completes the process of marriage. Today, the two ceremonies are normally performed together.

Because marriage under Jewish law is essentially a private contractual agreement between a man and a woman, it does not require the presence of a rabbi or any other religious official. ...(However) the presence of a religious or civil official is required under Western civil law.

Get - bill of divorce
According to the Torah, divorce is accomplished simply by writing a bill of divorce, handing it to the wife, and sending her away. To prevent husbands from divorcing their wives recklessly or without proper consideration, the rabbis created complex rules regarding the process of writing the document, delivery, and acceptance. A competent rabbinical authority should be consulted for any divorce.

The traditional text does not emphasize the breakdown of the relationship, nor does it specify the reason for the divorce; rather, it states that the woman is now free to marry another man.

It is important to note that a civil divorce is not sufficient to dissolve a Jewish marriage. As far as Jewish law is concerned, a couple remains married until the woman receives the get.

Cheers!
7L

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[002 Cents]

Did Jesus teach his disciples self importance?

Think of the stories of Mary Magdalen, The Good Samaritan, The Prodigal Son, Washing the feet of his disciples...

Then answer me this. Is it Jesus who imposed on Christians the Idea of Self Importance? Or is it Christians who imposed this idea on Christ?

Jesus stood for, lived for, and died for something great. Yet amidst the faith that cries his name the loudest very few of them have truly embraced the goodness of Christ.