I can't see humanity reaching an utopian world

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by God-Like

In an ideal world the world would be ideal .. One has to ask the question why at present it is not .. There are many reasons for why it is not and perhaps it will never be for such reasons ..

I think that there are ups and downs and pro's and con's for the world environment being as it is and what are pro's to some are con's for other's .. lol .. So depending on how you see the world will reflect upon how you see yourself to certain degrees .

This is part of why things are as they are in order for self to reflect upon the individual and the collective at the same time and this is why at a certain point one see's themselves in everything ..

If there was only ever sameness within the reflection one would not get a glimpse of their individuality ..

x daz x

Change begins with me.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Change begins with me.

The problem is, there are those that want to heal other's and the world and there are those that want to do the opposite ..

Change begins with each and everyone of us but for utopia to be, there needs alignment where everyone is on the same page and everyone want's the same outcome ..


x daz x

[davidsun]

The Cambridge Dictionary defines "utopian" as: "relating to or aiming for a perfect society in which everyone works well with each other and is happy." The 'fly in the ointment' here is that it takes the 'solving' of relational 'problems' for souls to learn how to be completely 'happy'.

Originally Posted by Dan_SF

Describe the desired conditions instead.

like "Humans/Animals (or all living beings) live by feeding on/from the energy of God". (the Bible says: "man does not live by bread alone, but by every utterance of God") ... God is Love, and therefore so am I. What is not of God, has no power to do anything.

(that is, assuming you truly know what 'God'/'Love' is, Dan, which I assume you do! )

In my view, earthly life (hence human 'society' as well) is a functional 'school' (can there be a more functional one or not, who knows?) whereby and wherein peeps souls are 'given' the opportunity (and challenge!) to learn the necessary lessons in the above becoming-and-being-relationally-competent-and-happy regard. (Note: Without said 'challenge', young souls would, for the most part, just 'sit on their god-magic carpet' and 'goof off'! From what I have previously written about the subject:

What this means is that, analogous to the way it takes many years of ‘schooling’ wherein initially ignorant and unskilled novices are tasked with learning and given the opportunity to master increasingly complex ‘lessons’ and thereby, upon ‘passing’ greater adeptitude-demanding ‘tests’, progress through a series of ‘grade’ levels to the point where they finally ‘graduate’ from vocational training programs and schools of knowledge, it takes numerous physical lifetimes for ‘young’ souls to become masterfully adept at deploying their ‘inner’ Love and Joy ‘program’ in relation to Life and others in it in the context of the infinite psychospiritual possibility containing ‘stream’ of sometimes mind-n-spirit sparking opportunities and sometimes mind-n-spirit daunting challenges that are encountered in the course of living in a matrixially multi-layered, complexly interwoven physiosocial system such as ours.

The alternative in relation to any particular challenge and/or opportunity, of course, being to ‘fail’ to do so, though, as you probably know if you are experienced enough, such ‘failure’ does not in and of itself preclude anyone from progressing in the above regard because one may often learn even more by reviewing and learning ‘lessons’ from one’s ‘failures’ than one’s ‘successes’. *Indeed, the possibility of ‘failure’, and so ‘failures’ themselves, are crucial components of a soul’s developmental process. A string of ‘successes’ alone will not result in one’s developing the degree of mental acuity and emotional resilience required to recognize, wisely navigate, and functionally emancipate oneself from being subject to the pulls and pushes of immediate selfish-gratification affording ‘temptations’ which, besides often leading one in a ‘wrong’ (short-term-gain-long-term-cost) direction, divert precious attention and energy away from the goal of maximally actualizing one’s Love and Joy potential in relation to and with other aspects of Life’s Presence and Flow Process. As in the case of a child’s learning to stand up, walk, run, etc., experiences of ‘failure’ resulting from one’s being short-sighted, careless, uncoordinated, etc. and (so) losing one’s balance, tripping and falling, bumping into walls, etc. in relation to others actually pave the way for ‘success’ in this regard.

The short version of ‘the full story’ is that, with the benefit of having both (‘unsuccessful’ and ‘successful’) kinds of experiences, souls may incrementally become aware of the ins and outs of the multivarious kinds of liabilities that attend ‘petty’ selfishness and (so) in due course choose as well as ultimately manage to transcend any and all selfish-‘i’dentity based inclinations, such that they eventually become fully functionally capable of and completely devoted to optimizing and augmenting The Entity of Life’s Love and Joy Flow (beyond the scope of their ‘own’ selfish one) and from then on live in a state of ‘at oneness’ (i.e. in conjunction) with said ever‑ongoing process forever (i.e. ‘eternally’) thereafter. The alternative possibility in this ‘ultimate’ regard, of course, being that souls may completely capital ‘F’(!) Fail to do and be so.

The latter possibility derives from the fact that, if and as a soul reacts, as all selfish-ego ensconced (hence ‘immature’ in psychospiritual terms) souls are prone to at least sometimes do, to the frustration(s) and disappointment(s) of personal wishes, hopes, and expectations by becoming even more selfish-gratification oriented (the idea that Life presents us with a series of ‘tests’ which we may either ‘pass’ or ‘fail’ pertains here), and if such all too human reactional tendency isn’t somehow ‘disarmed’ and ‘neutralized’,* such that a soul persists in becoming more so, it may eventually become so mentally and emotionally ‘i’solated in the ‘bubble’ of its own ‘petty’ selfishness that whatever inclination and capacity it may have had to experience and express Love and Joy in relation to and with others shrinks and shrivels (i.e. devolves) to the point where it finally becomes completely unloving and unjoyful in relation to Life. What then ‘happens’ (since the Essence of Life is Love and Joy and that is what our Entity is actually the living expression of) is that such soul just ‘blinks*out*’ and ‘vanishes’ as a psychospiritual pattern (or ‘entity’) from the ‘field’ of Life and therefore completely ‘loses’ the possibility of ever incarnating again as a unit. There is no Love and Joy ‘kernel’ left which can then possibly (re)incarnate and thereby learn and ‘grow’ to the point where it nodally integrates with and thereafter ‘eternally’ lives on as a full-fledged ‘member’ of the ‘Body’ of Life.

[Footnote*: Note if your experience is presently hellish: horrible-to-go-through experiences, variously described as ‘dark nights of the soul’, ‘hitting bottom’ and ‘ego-death’, will in retrospect be seen as having actually been selfishness ‘disarming’ and ‘neutralizing’ boons in the above regard. Hence the wisdom of Jesus’ regarding and speaking of being ‘poor in spirit’, ‘mourning’ and becoming ‘meek’ as psychospiritually propitious (see Matthew 5:3-5).]

[lemex]

Originally Posted by davidsun

The Cambridge Dictionary defines "utopian" as: "relating to or aiming for a perfect society in which everyone works well with each other and is happy." The 'fly in the ointment' here is that it takes the 'solving' of relational 'problems' for souls to learn how to be completely 'happy'.

Now this is food for thought. I have not heard this said before here. And this brings up a thought I have recently asked myself.

Do souls need and have desire the body exhibits, such as wanting money, power, control, all that that drive society and us when the soul is energy, the soul is consciousness? Soul is not the body yet never says no. Is there such a thing as a perfect heaven?

Originally Posted by lemex

Now this is food for thought. I have not heard this said before here. And this brings up a thought I have recently asked myself.

Do souls need and have desire the body exhibits, such as wanting money, power, control, all that that drive society and us when the soul is energy, the soul is consciousness? Soul is not the body yet never says no. Is there such a thing as a perfect heaven?

If by Soul we mean Atman then it's perfect in every aspect and has no cravings or aversions and knows no sorrows. The issue is rooted in body-mind and is clarity of mind, or more appropriately lack thereof, preventing recognition of our true nature which is spiritual (Soul or Atman).

Originally Posted by lemex

Now this is food for thought. I have not heard this said before here. And this brings up a thought I have recently asked myself.

Do souls need and have desire the body exhibits, such as wanting money, power, control, all that that drive society and us when the soul is energy, the soul is consciousness? Soul is not the body yet never says no. Is there such a thing as a perfect heaven?

I am wondering what they might want money for in the astral.As for power,my understanding is they want to learn so that they can raise their vibration to another level.There's no power involved.I recently had a reading and I am preparing for my third initiation.(So I am told)The goal is to merge with the divine,not power.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by hazada guess

I am wondering what they might want money for in the astral.As for power,my understanding is they want to learn so that they can raise their vibration to another level.There's no power involved.I recently had a reading and I am preparing for my third initiation.(So I am told)The goal is to merge with the divine,not power.

Soul is consciousness. Hope this clarifies. Energy.

Of course the answer is no but I so enjoy this question, the idea that isn't seen, for instance money is not a thing. Money is an experience in mind. The experience is real. I am often amazed as to what people will do for things or experience of what they bring. It would be more accurate with the experience brings. People want a thing for the experience it brings. The soul experience but is over ridden by the body. Why is this?

Anger an experience. Power an experience. Control an experience. All things are energy. Is it reasonable, souls are tested? We are energy machines.

Experiences not things raise or lower (changes) vibration or reflect our vibration. We do things because energy motivates that energy and energy to cause and effect. Vibration can't be seen of course, but experience can.

[linen53]

I consider this place that we live to be grade school. We must all go to grade school and complete it. Does the school change? No. Because other people need to go to grade school after we are finished here.

We see time as our enemy. I read it so many times on this forum that we are caught into an endless cycle of reincarnation. Well, it takes that long for us to complete our lessons. Sometimes it takes 10 lifetimes just to learn one thing because we have to learn it from every angle; as the initiator, as the receiver, as the onlooker, as the participant, as the historian, as the planner, on and on.

We become impatient with all of it. But Creation does not.

Once we complete grade school we move on. Away from here. And others take our place.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by linen53

I consider this place that we live to be grade school. We must all go to grade school and complete it. Does the school change? No. Because other people need to go to grade school after we are finished here.

We see time as our enemy. I read it so many times on this forum that we are caught into an endless cycle of reincarnation. Well, it takes that long for us to complete our lessons. Sometimes it takes 10 lifetimes just to learn one thing because we have to learn it from every angle; as the initiator, as the receiver, as the onlooker, as the participant, as the historian, as the planner, on and on.

We become impatient with all of it. But Creation does not.

Once we complete grade school we move on. Away from here. And others take our place.

My view and understanding aligns completely with what you say here (I think), Linen53. In keeping with such view/understanding, from my treatise:

What we are ensconced in and living parts of is an infinitely co-related matrixial (i.e. not ‘single’ causes string-leading to ‘singular’ effects linear) process. In particular, so you don’t mistakenly extrapolate what I’ve said over-simplistically, let me point out that a soul doesn’t just move on from whatever ‘state’ it was ‘in’ at the end of its prior self’s life and continue developing from ‘there’ in its next one, because it necessarily re-encounters and so has to re-transcend the pulls and pushes of the same set of instincts and kinds of conditioning that, albeit with some degree of viscissitudinal variation, are physiosocially ‘wired into’ every body-‘member’ of our species in the context of its ‘new’ environment. A still reincarnating soul which may have overcome (i.e. transcended) its ‘fear of death’, say, in a prior life will therefore have to do so again, for instance – and, should it ‘fail’ to do so, might even regress in this regard! – in its next lifetime; albeit subconscious (in terms of its ‘new’ brain) time-space spanning psychospiritual ‘memories’ stemming from its having done so (in the context of said prior life) will give it a kind of advantage, making it more likely that it will ‘succeed’ (again) in this regard, so it may do so at a younger biological age and possibly do so even more resolutely in face of more severe threats this (next) time around.

There are many physiosocial-ego associated sets of thoughts and feelings (‘fear of death’ is just one such syndrome) that one must, at some point, or at multiple points as stated above, disentangle one’s 'self' from and transcend if one is to eventually comprehensively actualize the Life that Jesus spoke of. There is a whole range of knowledge-and-wisdom related ‘lessons’ that have to mastered by way of resolving dilemmas, overcoming difficulties and becoming relationally proficient in the course of a soul’s developing to the point where it operationally grooves with the Totality of the Presence and Power of The Flow of Life Itself. To that end, 'advancing' souls often incarnate in problematic bodies and stressful environments because greater challenges provide greater stimulus and (consequently) more fecund opportunities for psychospiritual (awareness) growth and (adeptitude) development. Conversely, though there may of course also be significant benefits in terms of Love and Joy experience and opportunity to augment expression thereof which accrue in the context of ‘easy’ (generally regarded as being more fortunate and serendipitous) incarnational lives, said ‘ease’ may also seduce souls into being ‘contented’ in ways which result in their not rigorously exercising and deploying their Love and Joy capabilities, and their consequently languishing and atrophying (in one way of another) instead of growing and developing as much as they otherwise could and would. All of which explains what Jesus enigmatically alluded to when he said: “There are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.” (Luke 13:30)

The latter statement just hints at the often mind-boggling complexity which, because of the number of possible permutations and consequent range and variety of convolutions that every ‘vector element’ in Life’s fluid Flow is potentially capable of and subject to, typifies any and every soul’s developmental sequence. I once again remind you of Jesus’ (previously quoted herein) statement, “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit” (John 3:8), in this regard. I know I am repeating myself here, but this point merits hammering home: One should therefore not jump to any conclusions regarding the status or degree of one’s own or any other soul’s development based on apparent physiosocial attributes and circumstances or degree of skill relating to any venue or mode of expression at any given point in any particular lifetime. So, even though reincarnation and post-incarnation related information may be of considerable orientational value (which is the reason why I have collated and presented so much of it here), I reiterate my earlier caution to psychospiritually oriented teachers and students not to get caught up in extensive speculation and talk about such matters. In a great many cases, such activity is little more than pretentious, ‘I am concerned with and involved in exploring matters of great importance’ grandstanding which distracts self‑absorbed folks and gives them cover and excuse for not attentively focusing on, thinking about and creatively discharging their response-abilities in relation to what are consequently (mistakenly!) regarded as being less important personal and interpersonal goings on in the context of their current situational lives.

It is therefore really (always, in my opinion) most important that you maintain awareness of and make decisions on the basis of the fact that your soul is a mind-n-spirit ‘spring’ through which Life Itself continually ‘streams’ and that the potential and venue for you to engage in psychospiritually sustaining and augmenting experiences and expressions of Love and Joy in relation to and with others is ubiquitously present and always available to be tapped* into at any given point, should you wish and choose to do so. This, no matter what your past history and future prospects may be, reincarnationally or otherwise. This is also true in everyone else’s case, of course.

[Footnote* “If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.” (John 7:37-38):]

[linen53]

I thank you for your kind thoughts davidson.