Why does GOD exist?

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

Oh... dear...
Love comes in many shapes, colors, and depths.

Unconditional love is like in cellular, spiritual, and energy levels. It just exists w/o any thoughts, reasons, or even awareness.

Conditional love is physical and emotional levels with reasons and with full awareness. You know why you love.
Like, one loves this, that, and whoever because of whatever. - mostly due to emotional and physical needs and feelings.

Oh dear, I guess there isn't any point to carrying on.

Originally Posted by janielee

Unconditional Love exists - in smaller and greater capabilities.

I already said unconditional love is not emotive.

Forget I said anything at all.

[JustBe]

God exists because we exist.
To have belief in creation through a source we can label and comprehend allows us to give reason to our existence and the source of creation we are. I feel in the existence of a god belief, it brings peace to this lived experience and it propels us to live more connected within and without beyond human suffering. To know there is more and something greater, weaving this thing called life, we can let go of all binds, that keep us locked into our wounds, our lack, our fears and limitations. Without a “source” beyond that state of being, we wouldn’t have a marker to aim for. The god realisation serves our needs to bridge acceptance, trust and love and joy. It gives us reason to believe in something beyond pain and suffering. It can give us a reason to live.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hi there Moonglow


What is a belief in God? What does that mean, really really mean? And is a belief in God any different to any other belief? If you have a belief that God exists, it is your belief. Do you believe you exist? You may have beliefs about how you exist and what you exist as, but there is still a 'you' that exists in whatever shape or form that takes. If you stop believing that you are this or that, you still exist just the same and you don't wink out of existence. When all belief in God has been suspended, then what? Do we then descend into anarchy and chaos because there is no fear for our immortal Souls if we do something wrong? Does God wink out and cease to exist? Or is God just a personification of all the virtues that you've mentioned? If God is a personification then Spirituality hasn't come such a long way after all, because the majority of the Pagan Gods were personifications of aspects of the metaphysical/Spirituality.



God the Father - that was the term Jesus was fond of. By the way, I had a look and the word "God" appears six times in the whole of the Gospel of Thomas. Jesus predominantly refers to God not so much as God but as Father, and that's a reflection of two thing. First of all it's a reflection of the consciousness at the time because Jesus would have used words that would have had the most meaning to the people he was addressing. The real understanding though is that it's a reflection of Jesus' relationship with God. So yes, he was trying to put across the concept of protector or someone that has Love for us no matter what. That's why Christianity was so popular with the down-trodden masses, the whole idea of salvation away from their hard Lives was quite appealing - just as appealing as the escapism of Spirituality.


The more things change the more they stay the same.


If God was father-like wouldn't he want us to come to the realisation that we are the Ones we have been waiting for? And while we're waiting for him, he's waiting for us.



"The secret of Buddhism is to remove all ideas, all concepts, in order for the truth to have a chance to penetrate, to reveal itself."
Thich Nhat Hanh


In his discussion there seems to be so many ideas and concepts that have been presented as truth. When our heads are full of our own narratives there's no room left for anything else, no truth can come through. The search for God always ends up in the same place regardless - inside ourselves.

Greetings Greenslade,

A belief in God, to me, is no different then any other belief. It comes off as how I may relate to it or not. Then there seems a diversity as to how and/or what God is to begin with. Which seems to differ a bit among people.

Yes, if belief is related to how it is thought to be, then it may be but a piece or what is held to. If held too tightly, then what is being held? What is thought to be known? What the group may hold as true? A fear if let go of will leave one lost or doomed?
I don't know for others. But, my view has changed over the years.

I feel there is a presence/Spirit with in and without. The idea of God the father/protected/loving seems to manifest through what we give to each other.

Yes, can agree the projection of God as protector and loving can be very appealing, suppose, to those who may feel such is not being provided by others or society.

Religious order and institutions seem to build upon foundations of what has been established. Modern Spirtuality seems no different. Through this the original intent seems to get deluded to fit the agendas and/or set beliefs of the group or institution, IMO.

There is the teaching and belief of one God, one source, one creator. What if this is not the way it goes. If Quatum Physics seem to be pointing to multi-universe, then seems to change the veiw all together. Another topic?

Well sharing a bit where my mind goes with this.

What you present brings to mind; Be still and know I am God. Expand this be still and know. All is divine if one opens the heart and mind to feel such, IMO.

The practice of stilling the mind, as I understand, is to move the self made thoughts out of the way and just be with in what is being. I know there is more to this, again another topic. But, does fall into realizing it all exists as it is at present. Being mindful of thoughts, actions, and interactions.

Originally Posted by JustBe

God exists because we exist.
To have belief in creation through a source we can label and comprehend allows us to give reason to our existence and the source of creation we are. I feel in the existence of a god belief, it brings peace to this lived experience and it propels us to live more connected within and without beyond human suffering. To know there is more and something greater, weaving this thing called life, we can let go of all binds, that keep us locked into our wounds, our lack, our fears and limitations. Without a “source” beyond that state of being, we wouldn’t have a marker to aim for. The god realisation serves our needs to bridge acceptance, trust and love and joy. It gives us reason to believe in something beyond pain and suffering. It can give us a reason to live.

You shouldn't say things like this, you'll have the Spanish Inquisition on your tail. The Monty Python one I hope.

What so many people don't realise is that Spirituality is not based on Spirituality, it's based on what's ticking away in our skulls and this is the territory that this post is heading towards. In many ways a belief in God does serve our needs or acts as a survival/coping mechanism. Thirty-two pages of God wisdom and nobody has mentioned Maslo's Hierarchy of needs or Pavlov's dogs.

I guess the more things change, two thousand years later and they remain the same.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Greetings Greenslade,

A belief in God, to me, is no different then any other belief. It comes off as how I may relate to it or not. Then there seems a diversity as to how and/or what God is to begin with. Which seems to differ a bit among people.

Yes, if belief is related to how it is thought to be, then it may be but a piece or what is held to. If held too tightly, then what is being held? What is thought to be known? What the group may hold as true? A fear if let go of will leave one lost or doomed?
I don't know for others. But, my view has changed over the years.

I feel there is a presence/Spirit with in and without. The idea of God the father/protected/loving seems to manifest through what we give to each other.

Yes, can agree the projection of God as protector and loving can be very appealing, suppose, to those who may feel such is not being provided by others or society.

Religious order and institutions seem to build upon foundations of what has been established. Modern Spirtuality seems no different. Through this the original intent seems to get deluded to fit the agendas and/or set beliefs of the group or institution, IMO.

There is the teaching and belief of one God, one source, one creator. What if this is not the way it goes. If Quatum Physics seem to be pointing to multi-universe, then seems to change the veiw all together. Another topic?

Well sharing a bit where my mind goes with this.

What you present brings to mind; Be still and know I am God. Expand this be still and know. All is divine if one opens the heart and mind to feel such, IMO.

The practice of stilling the mind, as I understand, is to move the self made thoughts out of the way and just be with in what is being. I know there is more to this, again another topic. But, does fall into realizing it all exists as it is at present. Being mindful of thoughts, actions, and interactions.

Good day to you Moonglow

I could say that I still don't believe that we're here talking about God, thirty-three pages on and still counting yet here we are, still banging on about God. A belief is anything we choose it to be - it can be a Universal Truth if we want it to be and all we have to do is stand our ground regardless of what anyone else might say. That makes the belief nice and solid and we can feel better about ourselves and use the 'I am Spiritual' label, "I think therefore I Am." I think I am therefore I am.

A belief is an electrical signal running through our noggins, because really it's a nugget of information that we've filtered and/or catregorised, found it not contradictory to our cognitive dissonance so we've accepted it into our reality. There, we'll protect it in the same way as we protect a lot of our treasure. It was Tolle calls "object consciousness," the 'object; being the electrical signals.

It's been said that in the early days of Christianity, one of the reasons it was so popular - other than being forced on the populace under pain of death - was because of the idea of a protecting Father and salvation at the end of this miserable existence. Have things changed so little in the space of two thousand years? And yes indeed, the projection of God.

Here's the interesting thing for me. Very few Spiritual people embrace science yet so many scientists embrace religion and/or Spirituality. One eminent scientist said that Spirituality is the science we don't yet understand. Yet equating God with the field of probability? That's heresy of the first degree. In context those that came up with the concept of God - Zoroaster/Zarathustra actually - woudn't have known much about quantum theory, yet his brain was already quantum-capable and perhaps that's what was happening.

The thing is Moonglow, the way God is often described makes him sound like the field of probability. Science says that matter is emergent of consciousness and even Max Planck, the father of quantum theory, said that there was an intelligence behind the Universe.

Scientifically, God exists so there is no need for beliefs and when you understand that it makes so much sense of everything. It doesn't take beliefs to understand God, Spirituality is by far the strongest of barriers to God - not what brings us to God.

"The secret of Buddhism is to remove all ideas, all concepts, in order for the truth to have a chance to penetrate, to reveal itself."
Thich Nhat Hanh

It is also known as the suspension of all conclusions, to listen on a far deeper level than the surface layer of beliefs and the electrical signals that beliefs are. The glass is not half-empty because there is no such thing as emptiness, there is just what what it's full of. Even emptiness is something. When you say or when you have the conclusion or belief that "God is..." then God becomes your definitions or conclusions, and therefore is no longer God. When the empty glass is full of potential.....

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

"The secret of Buddhism is to remove all ideas, all concepts, in order for the truth to have a chance to penetrate, to reveal itself."
Thich Nhat Hanh

This seems an ironic quotation from someone whose posts are full of ideas and concepts.

Peace.

[Miss Hepburn]

I don't recall even attempting to ans the topic question.
My goodness, what a brain teaser!
WHY does God exist? I would not know...I don't think I
have ever read anyone that attempted that one!


Added: Just as I thought there is little online...and what is,
is pretty worthless.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

You shouldn't say things like this, you'll have the Spanish Inquisition on your tail. The Monty Python one I hope.

What so many people don't realise is that Spirituality is not based on Spirituality, it's based on what's ticking away in our skulls and this is the territory that this post is heading towards. In many ways a belief in God does serve our needs or acts as a survival/coping mechanism. Thirty-two pages of God wisdom and nobody has mentioned Maslo's Hierarchy of needs or Pavlov's dogs.

I guess the more things change, two thousand years later and they remain the same.

I like saying things I shouldn’t say, mainly because I don’t like shoulda, shoulds or I should do that, you should do this!

The survival/coping mechanism is a great point. There is that. In the world where everything presents itself, as a very diverse human experience, our personal experience, connected to something more beyond this world, especially a connection that propels us to experience ourselves differently, does serve to bridge us into our deeper connection as humans. Sadly for those who hold onto the god realisation or even the seeking of enlightenment as something beyond this world, can miss the vitality of their own aliveness here and now as all this now. Of course I am speaking of those who are able bodied and willing to serve the world itself as an actively engaged connection in the world itself. Sometimes in the survival mode, the dance becomes one of a solo dance, where as the direct experience we can attain too, as our higher integrated self, can become our very human life experience as a dance connected to more than something out there, something coming when I die, something greater that is beyond my own lived experience. It serves - I walk alone/we walk together as this life experience.

Of course I am a connector so I serve the lived experience not as a god preacher but through my humanness, through the life stories, through others that connect me deeper into the unified energies, unified as I have come to understand my own existence and connection in myself. In these moments it’s not about gods exsistence but what i bring to the table as I am in all this.

We seek the reason for our being here, being alive, being everything we are, we seek to know, to know god as a reflection of his power, his reign over us, his guardianship as our leader. Much like anyone we place on the stage of adoration as a need, to open to love and joy, to feel a sense of relatedness and belonging to something that fits you. In some ways god gives reason to feel differently. Whether we see him as love, power, as our leader, our understanding, as our true guide, as a figure head who has our back, or someone we can believe in, who believes in us, in the context of our own personal god experience and reason for being, falls back to ‘us and what moves us’ to be the person we are. I think when you settle into being you in every way you are, let god go, and let the life experience itself serve you and others, god settles. You settle. You know without needing to know.

As humans we like to look up to something, to revere things that we see as greater than us. Stronger, better than, more than us.We put these people on pedestals, adore them because they offer us hope of ‘more’ than we have, more than we know it want, we want, we desire, we feel, we see, we touch, we experience ourselves differently.

In the end we learn our potential, we learn our experience in this body and in this life, can be lived deeper, richer and connected , in ways we could never have imagined. As the seeker we find and meet god to understand ourselves and understand creation, the world, the universe as it is. To live differently. To feel differently. To live more fully and more connected as a human.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Good day to you Moonglow

I could say that I still don't believe that we're here talking about God, thirty-three pages on and still counting yet here we are, still banging on about God. A belief is anything we choose it to be - it can be a Universal Truth if we want it to be and all we have to do is stand our ground regardless of what anyone else might say. That makes the belief nice and solid and we can feel better about ourselves and use the 'I am Spiritual' label, "I think therefore I Am." I think I am therefore I am.

A belief is an electrical signal running through our noggins, because really it's a nugget of information that we've filtered and/or catregorised, found it not contradictory to our cognitive dissonance so we've accepted it into our reality. There, we'll protect it in the same way as we protect a lot of our treasure. It was Tolle calls "object consciousness," the 'object; being the electrical signals.

It's been said that in the early days of Christianity, one of the reasons it was so popular - other than being forced on the populace under pain of death - was because of the idea of a protecting Father and salvation at the end of this miserable existence. Have things changed so little in the space of two thousand years? And yes indeed, the projection of God.

Here's the interesting thing for me. Very few Spiritual people embrace science yet so many scientists embrace religion and/or Spirituality. One eminent scientist said that Spirituality is the science we don't yet understand. Yet equating God with the field of probability? That's heresy of the first degree. In context those that came up with the concept of God - Zoroaster/Zarathustra actually - woudn't have known much about quantum theory, yet his brain was already quantum-capable and perhaps that's what was happening.

The thing is Moonglow, the way God is often described makes him sound like the field of probability. Science says that matter is emergent of consciousness and even Max Planck, the father of quantum theory, said that there was an intelligence behind the Universe.

Scientifically, God exists so there is no need for beliefs and when you understand that it makes so much sense of everything. It doesn't take beliefs to understand God, Spirituality is by far the strongest of barriers to God - not what brings us to God.

"The secret of Buddhism is to remove all ideas, all concepts, in order for the truth to have a chance to penetrate, to reveal itself."
Thich Nhat Hanh

It is also known as the suspension of all conclusions, to listen on a far deeper level than the surface layer of beliefs and the electrical signals that beliefs are. The glass is not half-empty because there is no such thing as emptiness, there is just what what it's full of. Even emptiness is something. When you say or when you have the conclusion or belief that "God is..." then God becomes your definitions or conclusions, and therefore is no longer God. When the empty glass is full of potential.....

Greetings Greenslade,

Playing around with a thought here. If we be God playing at not being God, then isn't talking about ourselves, God talking through us or talking about God?

Two questions pop into mind; Who am I? Who am I not? Both seem in the process of living life.

We find what is liked and what is not liked by doing different things, having various experiences. We arrange, change, rearrange our living space. So, it seems the same is done with in the self and beliefs formed. Some people seem flexible, while others are not so keen on changing.

God works because there is comfort in knowing and/or thinking one is protected and provided for. Life is more then birth, school, work, and death. There is a goal a place of rest when all is said and done. A welcoming light at the end of the journey. Ok, this may come across as a bunch of glitter being thrown in the eyes, to some. But, for others it gives a center and purpose, IMO.

For others, it seems the story is played out and the created God image of love, protected, and provider just is not working. The world reflects both and loved ones die, one is alone, warfare, and the rest of it seems to contradict what has been and is preached about God.

So, the reason being to be protected, provider, loving seems to get contradicted.
But, again is God doing this or ourselves?

Maybe a little harsh in this view point, but feel relevant in regards to why or even if Gid exists?

History seems to reflect similar patterns in human behavior. Similar goals, ideas, theologies, philosophies seem to creep in. Rapture, enlightenment, ego, devil, higher self, Holy Spirit. Fragmenting ourselves further and further into pieces and away from that which seems desired to connect to.

All the while the beauty and potentials that are right in front of ones nose is overlooked or brushed off as something unobtainable because no one has written a book about it or preach it loud enough.

Yet science shows the wonders of nature, humans, the universe, and potentials there in. Yet all this not spiritual because it is too physical? I dare to differ. Standing on a hillside looking out over the valley or sitting quietly in a forest can be very spiritual indeed. The sheer power and awesomeness of the universe is creation unfolding before us.

Why does it exist? Ahh, perhaps one does not look deep enough or expecting too much. One just needs to look, listen, and breath it in. It is, call it what one will or nothing at all.

Each other and ones own potential to reach out to another, to be kind, to be grateful. All of which takes no further practice then just doing it.

Has nothing to do with trying to be any-thing. Has everything to do with using ones own potentials to, as stated, be the change.

Through this perhaps it will be as been pointed to and suggested to consider.
No need for titles and such, for it is felt and understood through ones action and acknowledgement towards another. What is hoped for through God can be obtained through us and for some is. Still work to do, but that's life?

Idealistic? Perhaps at the present state the social world is, but not with in the interactions of one with another. When we realize our own existence and potentials there in, the divine/Spirit naturally shines through, IMO.