Innocence & Ignorance

[Starman]

Musings from the great outdoors. There is a difference between innocence and ignorance.

Innocence is inherent in the spiritual experience; a transformation occurs when we bathe in divine spirit and that transformation
returns us to a state of innocence. Some might ask, innocent of what? That is the worldly interpretation of innocence; an
interpretation that says innocent means not guilty. But what is the innocence we see in a new born baby?

In the spiritual sense innocence means to be in a state similar to that of a new born baby. In a spiritual sense innocence is a
supple presence that wraps you in the simplicity of overwhelming love and forgiveness. The innocence of that new born baby
remains within us all through our earthly journey. It is and innocence where you exist steadfast in the moment with no past or future.

A person who is innocent may be naïve by worldly standards, but by spiritual qualities they are not ignorant. Spiritual innocence
is a state of conscious awareness, while ignorance implies we are not consciously aware or we choose to ignore what we are
consciously aware of.

Within the word “ignorance” is the word “ignore.” Even in and unconscious state we may be ignoring conscious awareness.
All of the mistakes, challenges, problems, and mishaps, which I have had in my life came from a lack of awareness. Sometimes
I ignored the awareness I had and other times I was totally unaware. Within divine love exists the presence of innocence.

Our most true state is a state of innocence. One might say that while innocence is light, ignorance is darkness. True innocence
has nothing to do with guilt or lack of guilt, and ignorant unconsciousness plays its’ role in attempting to push us towards the light.
The interplay of darkness and light works differently for different people.

I once asked a person who had recently began alcohol treatment after a long history of alcohol abuse, how come you did not
seek treatment sooner. He replied “I had not reached my bottom yet;” which is another way of saying it wasn’t yet painful enough.
We all play, or have played, with the darkness. What would be the earthly journey if not for ignorance? After all the journey is one
of coming from a place of ignorance into more light. Awareness is light.

[inavalan]

I see what you mean ...

On the other hand, I believe that we should use words for whatever they are, and when we want to give them a narrower or altered meaning, we should just derive new words.

I think it is unfortunate that there are so many hijacked words we can't use anymore.

[utopiandreamchild]

Love is innocent hate is ignorant/guilty. Which would we rather is the question especially on the day of judgement. When we come face to face with our creator. Could you tell him that all you ever did was in the name of love?, there are few and far between whom can considering the number of souls there are across history. Amen

[Starman]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I see what you mean ...

On the other hand, I believe that we should use words for whatever they are, and when we want to give them a narrower or altered meaning, we should just derive new words.

I think it is unfortunate that there are so many hijacked words we can't use anymore.

Words evolve. Michael Jackson made a song called "bad" and it meant that he was really good.

This symbol # once meant number, or pound, now people say it means hash-tag. Words do not
mean the same today as they meant 30-years ago and new words are frequently being added
to the English language. Words are symbols and symbols change.

Spiritual innocence is a lot different than what is commonly called "innocence" by the masses.
So maybe the word "innocence" was first developed to mean as used in the spiritual sense and
then it devolved over time to mean guilty or not guilty, just maybe.

[inavalan]

:) Why guess? Google it!

innocence: Middle English: from Old French, from Latin innocentia, from innocent- ‘not harming’ (based on nocere ‘injure’).

[Shivani Devi]

As an innocent child, I learned a saying:

He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool; avoid him. He who knows not and knows that he knows not is a student; teach him. He who knows and knows not that he knows is asleep; wake him. He who knows and knows that he knows is a wise man; follow him.

The origins of this became lost in the annals of antiquity.

In the modern interpretation:

"He who knows and knows that he knows is arrogant; abuse him". LOL

A lot of things change over time...even though they say that time does not exist, but then how are we to ever correlate dichotomies and discrepancies existing in the "eternal now?"

In the case of any given "belief system", when it is viewed objectively, the same belief set may be viewed as "ignorance" by one and yet, as "naivite" by another..in any case, both "ignorance" and "innocence" are not viewed socially as desirable traits to possess anyway according to modern (wo)mankind.

Ignorance relates to the "lack of knowledge" whilst innocence relates to the "lack of experience"and whatever the case, it all boils down to a "lack" of something which presents itself like a vacuum within the soul that human nature abhors.

Of course people who have been awakened or "self-realised" know differently and like Jesus, understand:

At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.”

— Matthew 18:1-5

In a way, ignorance can beget innocence, in that the willful shunning of knowledge...to forget what it is that we know or only THINK that we know, is required to open the heart to the love of God, to see things afresh and anew with awe and wonder, just like a little child...and in that moment, both ignorance and innocence are transcended in the light of total, mindful awareness.

[inavalan]

Quote:
He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool; avoid him. He who knows not and knows that he knows not is a student; teach him. He who knows and knows not that he knows is asleep; wake him. He who knows and knows that he knows is a wise man; follow him.

How can you discern if somebody belongs to one of those four cases? You can't! So ... follow nobody, wake up nobody, teach nobody, consider nobody a fool!

How can you discern if you belong to one of those four cases? You can't, but if you try sometime you might find you know what you need (paraphrasing the Stones).

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by inavalan

How can you discern if somebody belongs to one of those four cases? You can't! So ... follow nobody, wake up nobody, teach nobody, consider nobody a fool!

How can you discern if you belong to one of those four cases? You can't, but if you try sometime you might find you know what you need (paraphrasing the Stones).

I don't know, it was just one of those quotes popular with the New Age Hippie set back in the '70's - For some reason, Rumi wasn't as popular back then as he is now, so we just had to deal with quotes like that..and for some reason an innocent 10 year old girl found it fascinating until people started explaining the meaning of things..

It always sucks hard when people start explaining the meaning of things...

[Shivani Devi]

He who knows and knows that he knows not is Socrates; forget him.

*From Shivani's Higher Self*

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

He who knows and knows that he knows not is Socrates; forget him.

*From Shivani's Higher Self*

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Hahaha ... what a wonderful release laughter is

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