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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Astral Projection

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  #11  
Old 05-06-2013, 05:19 PM
Shabda Shabda is offline
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LOL i agree with everyone thats posted, it simply is real....over the years in my own OBE's ive learned that waking life IS the dream, and the seeming dream while sleeping is actually more awake....try it for yourself to clear up any issues....i have also taken others consciously OBE for the very reason of proving it to them, which isnt necessarily a thing meaning that im great or super skilled or anything, but rather that OBE's simply ARE what happens EVERYTIME a person falls asleep....nothing could be more natural, its exactly like breathing, natural...anyone can do it and everyone DOES whether they realize it or not.....as for imagination, it isnt just imagination, it is actually a far greater thing than you may realize, the one quality of Soul that can be used while in the human body, imagination does a LOT more for science and technology than we often give it credit for....also i found this, an OBE in a lab??? http://www.theartofastralprojection....be-science-lab
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"Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu, Buddhist, Sufi, or Zen. Not any religion or cultural system. I am not from the East or the West, not out of the ocean or up from the ground, not natural or ethereal, not composed of elements at all... I belong to the Beloved, have seen the two worlds as one and that one call to and know, first, last, outer, inner, only that breath breathing human being."
Rumi
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  #12  
Old 05-06-2013, 08:35 PM
Tobi Tobi is offline
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I haven't found a lot, scientifically-speaking, to prove the reality of astral projection empirically.
The scientific problem, it seems is that operating from the 3rd dimension it is quite hard to "prove" the existence of a reality in another dimension! To apply 3rd-dimensional vewpoints and analysis techniques to something wich is in the 4th or 5th dimension....doesn't really work very well.
So what we are mainly left with is anecdotal "evidence" which isn't provable "evidence" at all, and depends on many factors for how plausible it is.
(The state of mind of the person telling their experiences...the state of mind of those listening to the experiences....whether there is any empathy with the conditions described (or shared experience or knowledge)...etc)

But here's another little bit of anecdotal "evidence", from me.
Yes it's real. At its most lucid, and best, it's a fully-awake, fully-conscious experience, with critical faculties and awareness working just fine. It is nothing LIKE the experience of imagining, fantasizing, and to me -during an out of body episode, it is nothing even like a dream.
To me, going out of body doesn't even feel like a lucid dream. I've had those, and the oobe feels VERY different indeed.
Like being completely awake.
Even sometimes quite 'ordinary'....like when leaving the body and seeing your room just like it is, and seeing your hands, and legs and feet etc, seeing the morning light, hearing the birds singing (while completely out of body)
Oh, and that wonderful sensation mentioned in another post, that if some body part really really hurts, or is paralyzed, etc....suddenly when out of body -it doesn't! And works beautifully!
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2013, 01:45 AM
Kontufuto Kontufuto is offline
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With one post EVER I assume you are of the opposition trying to debunk it either 'cause you don't want to believe it exists or you are tooting your own agenda. For anyone that has experienced an OBE will know if its real or not. I for one have experienced plenty and have challenged and confirmed with others that my presence was known and felt. If you are seeking a physical senses sort of experience then it won't exist. That is the bottom line. You have to change the game and move UP to a higher level with increased senses and sensitivity to perceptions and energies that are not of this world. If you cannot do that you would immediately debunk not just this subject but probably any subject on this spiritual forum!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eilam
I have been searching for some sort of evidence that astral projection is a real phenomenon rather than a vivid daydream, but I have found very little.

Is an astral traveler really going someplace else, or are they just going someplace else in their imagination? There is a difference between doing something and just imagining you're doing it...otherwise I would be able to do brain surgery by just imagining that I went through medical school.

I want to know if people who claim they can astral travel have *actually* traveled, not just imagined they've traveled.

Right off the bat, I'd just like to debunk the argument that "we don't have advanced enough technology to detect astral projection"...I've seen this argument a lot when other people tried to ask why there is no scientific validation of astral projection (not on this forum). You do not need super-advanced technology to provide evidence for astral projection. One man tried to do an experiment with it (beginning of this Youtube video -> /watch?v=Z2DWrTfEfo8), with NO super-futuristic technology, but he couldn't replicate it more than once just because the person he was studying left and refused to continue the study.

So, with the fact that we don't even need super-advanced technology to provide evidence of astral projection out of the way...why aren't there many studies providing support for astral projection being a real phenomena?
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  #14  
Old 06-06-2013, 05:23 AM
wstein wstein is offline
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There is not much evidence that where you are reading this post isn't just imaginary. Pretty much any of the signs of imagination have also applied to dreams, out of body (astral travel included), waking (physical world). There is no definitive test. Mass shared hallucinations are rare but documented.

As Sangress indicated, there are distinct differences in the experience among the various states of consciousness (fully conscious, unconscious, dreaming, imaging, etc) and various locations (planes, dimensions, realms, etc). That however does not necessarily distinguish those that are 'real' from those 'imaginary'. After all, your dreams vary considerably in almost every aspect, yet they are all still dreams (not to be confused with visions, telepathy, OBE). To make matters more unclear its very possible to experience more than one state or location at once (fully conscious and dreaming AKA lucid dreaming for example).

My view is that it does not matter. The experiences you have are all equally real. You remember them, learn from them, they affect you.
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  #15  
Old 06-06-2013, 11:50 AM
Free_Spirit1983
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"That however does not necessarily distinguish those that are 'real' from those 'imaginary'"




I think this is where the confusion comes in - I don't think you can distinguish "real" from "imaginary" as they are no different.

The pen I have in my hand is no more "real" than the one I create in my mind, it just has physical form
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  #16  
Old 06-06-2013, 12:20 PM
Time
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Actually eilam, there is. REM sleep initiates lucid dreams, which have been proven to be OBE/astral projection.

To put it simply, its your subconcsious going nuts just about when you fall asleep.
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  #17  
Old 06-06-2013, 04:00 PM
CNC
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Proof is overrated ;)
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  #18  
Old 06-06-2013, 11:28 PM
Tobi Tobi is offline
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Questioning, and being unsure on faith and anecdotes alone isn't always about debunking. Sometimes it's calling out for "evidence".
Now that's an interesting condition. I know it well, because I never "believed"...I always had to "know". I had to have evidence -and it had to be hard evidence.
So I got it!
Unfortunately (haha!) that is -and will always remain -MY personal hard evidence. It seems, with these things, we must all find our own evidence.
Strange -eh?
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  #19  
Old 07-06-2013, 11:25 AM
Free_Spirit1983
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Your personal evidence is all you need :)
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  #20  
Old 07-06-2013, 10:00 PM
Eilam
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Ok, I'm back

All of the replies appear to be saying basically one of the following things:

- There are a lot of factors that complicate the process of gathering and assessing evidence for astral projection (Sangress's post condensed)
-You have to try it for yourself to know it's real
- Astral projection feels different from imagination or lucid dreams
- A few suggestions that real and imaginary are indistinguishable or that it doesn't make a difference
- We're trying to assess a 4th/5th dimension phenomenon according to 3d standards
- Maybe we're all in the matrix ("There is not much evidence that where you are reading this post isn't just imaginary")

In the meantime, I've actually tried astral projection 2 times. So it's not that I don't see any potential in it at all, it would just be nice if there were some way to be sure I'm not simply playing tricks on my own mind. Both tries were unsuccessful (I fell asleep...) but I do plan to keep trying to gain some experience with it to make my own assessments.

But I actually was unaware of many of the problems that Sangress mentioned, such as the lack of distinction between AP/dreams/OBEs. I have read people using AP and OBE interchangeably, and was confused because I thought they were different, but I just assumed that I was missing something. I've also seldom seen AP and lucid dreaming used interchangeably as terms. So thank you for that.

I'm not going to address the other suggestions, simply because they can't possibly be covered in this thread...whether there is a difference between what is real and imagined could make an entire tome. So could whether there are 4 dimensions or 5 or 278, and whether we're all in the matrix. Which leaves only experimentation with it myself as the only practical answer.

It was my hope that someone would present some experiment or study that I had missed, but unfortunately we don't have that yet.

Thanks for your replies, and I shall end with one question: How do you all not fall asleep while trying to astral project???
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