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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #21  
Old 21-06-2019, 02:01 AM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerramineLightvoid
I don't see the world as magic, I see it as logic and fact. I break it down by it's rules and follow those. Reality is reality, so the victor is whoever knows how to respect Reality as much as possible. Yes, positive thinking moves in a positive direction with your actions. Thought leads to action, especially through Repitition.

Reality has only the rules that we agree to give it. I follow those rules only because I want to play the game along with others. We can break the rules of the game anytime we wish, as long as we are prepared to be ejected from the game. When I grow tired of this game, I will change my reality, and go play a different game, with perhaps a different cast of players and perhaps a different set of rules.
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  #22  
Old 21-06-2019, 10:56 PM
TerramineLightvoid TerramineLightvoid is offline
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Originally Posted by ketzer
Reality has only the rules that we agree to give it. I follow those rules only because I want to play the game along with others. We can break the rules of the game anytime we wish, as long as we are prepared to be ejected from the game. When I grow tired of this game, I will change my reality, and go play a different game, with perhaps a different cast of players and perhaps a different set of rules.
**** no kid. Reality has cosmic laws which dictate precisely how things are. If I throw a rock in your face, it doesn't matter what you and your friends THINk. It's going to collide with your face if you think you can just whim it to be something else than it is. Reality is set, it is determined.

Now can we put in work to try to shape reality to be what we want? Yes. But ultimately there is a natural direction to humanity's development and I think it's happening BECAUSE God... as in God, God. The one true ultimate being. Is controlling how it plays out.

I don't think we can truly make any reality we want. I think there are things which would create unstable societies that would inevitably collapse. If they could even be STARTED in the first place. Like I don't see how it is even conceivable that a world where Rape perfectly accepted and allowed, could exist. It couldn't happen. There are fundamental truths about Rape that render it functionally impossible. As if the universe itself does have a sense of Morality.

We should not get too big of Egos. I'm not saying we are Jesus or whatever. I AM saying we underestimate our position in things, and that we should take more action to realize our greatest potentials. But that does not make us God, that does not mean we write the rules willy nilly.
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  #23  
Old 23-06-2019, 12:02 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerramineLightvoid
**** no kid. Reality has cosmic laws......
.

Reality has cosmic laws which dictate precisely how things are. If I throw a rock in your face, it doesn't matter what you and your friends THINk. It's going to collide with your face if you think you can just whim it to be something else than it is. Reality is set, it is determined.


From the asterisks, I can see that you are quite attached to, and defensive of, your reality. You are of course entitled to your reality, just as I am entitled to mine, but I must tell you that mine does not work the same as you describe yours. Reality may be determined, but what is determined is only the probability of what could be, not what will be for you or me. The wave function evolves forward, providing in its amplitude, the probability of all possible futures, it is our choice of observation that determines which of those futures we will experience as our reality. If I go with the most probable of those futures, then the rock will most likely hit me in the face, but all the other possible futures are available, always are. Of course, we both get to choose. You may witness the rock striking me in the face, I may see it miss me and go right on bye. Who is right? Why argue about it when we can both be right.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6...ctive-reality/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR3Msi1YeXQ

It is fine to apply logic and reason in an attempt to reach the truth, but if one applies it to facts that are only shadows, then the reality they arrive at is just the perceived reality of the shadows.

http://www.philosophyzer.com/the-all...y-and-meaning/

There is nothing wrong with playing guessing games based on shadows on the wall, it is a rather fun and enjoyable and sometimes even profitable game to play. But it is no use becoming annoyed at those who point out that what we are perceiving as reality is based on the shadows. If you want to do better than just playing guessing games based on the shadows, then I would suggest you follow the advice of those who are most serious about discovering the underlying nature of reality and, “shut up and calculate”, for mathematics is still the best tool we have for such a venture. But your shadow puppets won’t provide much help here, and you can check your intuition and even your common logic at the door, as it will soon lose its way as well. Those who have gone down this path have returned with stories about what the mathematics has shown them that are bizarre, logical only within the language of mathematics, and often seemingly impossible. Yet time and time again, every experiment devised to test the predictions of the mathematics has proven out the seemingly impossible reality which it describes.

Now can we put in work to try to shape reality to be what we want? Yes. But ultimately there is a natural direction to humanity's development and I think it's happening BECAUSE God... as in God, God. The one true ultimate being. Is controlling how it plays out.


Everything that has, is, and will play out, already exists in the mind of God. The infinity of past, present, and future, are all there, existing for you and I to experience. You may experience the development, triumph, or failure of humanity as your soul wishes or needs to, for all possible futures are equally real. It is up to you and I to realize them for and within ourselves.

https://bigthink.com/surprising-scie...5#rebelltitem5
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ett-biography/
https://phys.org/news/2014-12-universe-dimensions.html

I don't think we can truly make any reality we want. I think there are things which would create unstable societies that would inevitably collapse. If they could even be STARTED in the first place. Like I don't see how it is even conceivable that a world where Rape perfectly accepted and allowed, could exist. It couldn't happen. There are fundamental truths about Rape that render it functionally impossible. As if the universe itself does have a sense of Morality.


Why shouldn’t unstable societies develop and collapse all the time, infinitely many of them. In fact that is one of the leading hypotheses of why, despite overwhelming odds to the contrary, we don’t find any other signs of intelligent life in our observable universe. If forced to place a bet, I would say we are in such a collapsing society right now. Why I chose to experience life in such a society is hard for my limited human egoic focused mind to understand, but i have faith that my soul chose this experience for a reason, else I would probably have changed the channel by now.
Your universe is your own, created entirely by, within, and from you. So of curse you can create a universe where rape is perfectly accepted, however, you cannot force any other consciouse souls to expereince it in parallel along with you. So in such a universe, one may find that despite initial impressions, all of the information creating that universe, is really just coming from them, they are alone in thier universe, and they are in fact just raping themselves. Many people chose to develop the skill of lucid dreaming, and many of them tout as a benifit the ability to have sex in their lucid dream with anybody they wish, but of course they are really only masturbating within thier own mind.
Yes, the multiverse does have woven within its matrix of cause and effect, a fundamental morality. Choose your rules poorly, and you will cause your consciousness to follow along a path through that matrix that includes effects that you may find most unpleasant. Nevertheless, the story of that life will include a moral which your soul can grow from, and hopefully choose its next reality experience with a bit more wisdom. Fortunately, there are infinitely many paths within the matrix, and so infinitely many stories to live, so everything you need is already there for you, and God is an infinitely patient and infinitely compassionate school master.

We should not get too big of Egos. I'm not saying we are Jesus or whatever. I AM saying we underestimate our position in things, and that we should take more action to realize our greatest potentials. But that does not make us God, that does not mean we write the rules willy nilly.


Of course we are God, what else could we be as there is nothing that is not God. Within every cell lies the genetic information needed to create an entire human being. Yet if an individual cell attempts to do so the result is cancer and the illness or death of that human being. The human being is made up of all of those individual cells, yet it is far greater than the sum of them. The greatest potential for any individual cell is to learn to live in unity with the rest of the cells of the body. The greatest potential for any soul is to learn to live in harmony with all souls, and to live in unity with and within the body of God, which gave and sustains its existence. We can write the rules of our reality willy nilly, but we must live by the rules we write. If we want to experience life with others, then we must compromise and cooperate on those rules. Learning how to write the rules that allow us to realize our greatest potential, that is a skill that cannot be taught, it must be learned through experience. We may not be Jesus, but certainly, there is an example from which we can draw both the direction and inspiration needed to keep learning despite the hard knocks we get along the way.

That is how I see my reality, you are of course entitled to create and experience yours as you see fit.
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  #24  
Old 23-06-2019, 04:28 PM
TerramineLightvoid TerramineLightvoid is offline
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Ketzer's mentality is a dangerous one. That's all I can say in response. Trying to deny reality is what has led to so many attrocities throughout history. Just because he drank the retardo coolaid, doesn't mean we should want to. I don't sense actual esoteric truth in your words, everything just sounds like quack science and this is coming from the guy full of quack science.

See the difference between me and you is, I know how crazy I sound. Which is why when I actually study science, I just represent it as-is. I generally don't interpret the facts to mean some higher conspiracy. I have an idealistic side, and a pragmatic one. The pragmatic one does what it does, running concurrently to but not intersecting with the idealistic side.

So I'll preach a greater truth, but at least I'm not reaching like saying that the wave function means reality isn't reality. Nothing in the science you cite actually has to do with what you're saying. The Wave Function just describes the reality we already know. You talk about probability but ignore other facets of Quantum Physics, such as that it ONLY applies on the Quantum scale to particle sized objects. Or for instance Feynman's diagram that pretty much establishes why we only see 1 outcome and that's because ALL probabilities merge into the 1 probability where the particle reached it's destination.

So basically again, we experience only 1 reality ultimately. This is doubly true if there is a God observing the universe. Because then that would explain why everything at the Macro scale is Determined/Set/A Single Possibility.
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  #25  
Old 23-06-2019, 09:47 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerramineLightvoid
Ketzer's mentality is a dangerous one. That's all I can say in response. Trying to deny reality is what has led to so many attrocities throughout history. Just because he drank the retardo coolaid, doesn't mean we should want to. I don't sense actual esoteric truth in your words, everything just sounds like quack science and this is coming from the guy full of quack science.

See the difference between me and you is, I know how crazy I sound. Which is why when I actually study science, I just represent it as-is. I generally don't interpret the facts to mean some higher conspiracy. I have an idealistic side, and a pragmatic one. The pragmatic one does what it does, running concurrently to but not intersecting with the idealistic side.

So I'll preach a greater truth, but at least I'm not reaching like saying that the wave function means reality isn't reality. Nothing in the science you cite actually has to do with what you're saying. The Wave Function just describes the reality we already know. You talk about probability but ignore other facets of Quantum Physics, such as that it ONLY applies on the Quantum scale to particle sized objects. Or for instance Feynman's diagram that pretty much establishes why we only see 1 outcome and that's because ALL probabilities merge into the 1 probability where the particle reached it's destination.

So basically again, we experience only 1 reality ultimately. This is doubly true if there is a God observing the universe. Because then that would explain why everything at the Macro scale is Determined/Set/A Single Possibility.

Me thinks you need to study your science a bit more. Enjoy your rants and your reality.

"Instead, an object such as an electron, a photon, a molecule, or (just to blow your mind) your grandmother, can be thought of as a blend of properties called a superposition that have different states at once.

The probabilities of those states, each describing its position and energy in time and space, is what we call waves. Seriously, stop trying to imagine it in a classical, physical sense, you'll get a nose bleed."

https://www.sciencealert.com/physici...s-act-as-waves
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  #26  
Old 23-06-2019, 09:49 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerramineLightvoid
Ketzer's mentality is a dangerous one. That's all I can say in response. Trying to deny reality is what has led to so many attrocities throughout history. Just because he drank the retardo coolaid, doesn't mean we should want to. I don't sense actual esoteric truth in your words, everything just sounds like quack science and this is coming from the guy full of quack science.

See the difference between me and you is, I know how crazy I sound. Which is why when I actually study science, I just represent it as-is. I generally don't interpret the facts to mean some higher conspiracy. I have an idealistic side, and a pragmatic one. The pragmatic one does what it does, running concurrently to but not intersecting with the idealistic side.

So I'll preach a greater truth, but at least I'm not reaching like saying that the wave function means reality isn't reality. Nothing in the science you cite actually has to do with what you're saying. The Wave Function just describes the reality we already know. You talk about probability but ignore other facets of Quantum Physics, such as that it ONLY applies on the Quantum scale to particle sized objects. Or for instance Feynman's diagram that pretty much establishes why we only see 1 outcome and that's because ALL probabilities merge into the 1 probability where the particle reached it's destination.

So basically again, we experience only 1 reality ultimately. This is doubly true if there is a God observing the universe. Because then that would explain why everything at the Macro scale is Determined/Set/A Single Possibility.

Me thinks you need to study your science a bit more. You are wrong on a number of accounts.

Everything at the macro scale is underlain by quantum physics. Arguing that quantum effects are not relevant to the macroscopic world is like arguing that the rain has nothing to do with the river. Getting angry at those who try to tell you the shadows are not reality is natural, but sooner or later you need to stop yelling and start looking, else you may give yourself a nosebleed.

Quote:
"Instead, an object such as an electron, a photon, a molecule, or (just to blow your mind) your grandmother, can be thought of as a blend of properties called a superposition that have different states at once.

The probabilities of those states, each describing its position and energy in time and space, is what we call waves. Seriously, stop trying to imagine it in a classical, physical sense, you'll get a nose bleed."

https://www.sciencealert.com/physici...s-act-as-waves
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  #27  
Old 23-06-2019, 11:22 PM
little.nation little.nation is offline
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Originally Posted by TerramineLightvoid
. Like I don't see how it is even conceivable that a world where Rape perfectly accepted and allowed, could exist. It couldn't happen. There are fundamental truths about Rape that render it functionally impossible. As if the universe itself does have a sense of Morality.

Have you not met planet earth and humanity? I suffer perpetual rape. I was grossly sexually assaulted numerous times as a little girl. All of it was intentional and planned. The vulgar evil ones were grooming me for a life - and eternity - of rape and sexual torture. They harass and attack and rape me constantly. They made me violently hate God. My wrath is so fierce that nothing surpasses it. Every time i am attacked and assaulted and vulgarized I in turn attack God.
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  #28  
Old 24-06-2019, 10:16 PM
TerramineLightvoid TerramineLightvoid is offline
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Originally Posted by little.nation
Have you not met planet earth and humanity? I suffer perpetual rape. I was grossly sexually assaulted numerous times as a little girl. All of it was intentional and planned. The vulgar evil ones were grooming me for a life - and eternity - of rape and sexual torture. They harass and attack and rape me constantly. They made me violently hate God. My wrath is so fierce that nothing surpasses it. Every time i am attacked and assaulted and vulgarized I in turn attack God.
Yeah no, your ****ed up parents are not the world. They are not even remotely indicative of what 99.99999999% of the world is like.

Here's the world: Rape is 1000% illegal. Particularly, rape of children and minors is so universally hated and despised that being a child rapist is to be everything that is anathema to society and humanity and is a very dangerous and deadly road that is extremely unforgiving. If you don't change your ways, a painful death is inevitable. If you do you will forever be marked with a stigma.

When I said there will never be a world where rape is acceptable. I meant where it's legal, where you walk outside and you see your neighbor raping someone, and everyone else sees it and just smiles and waves at your neighbor as he rapes. Or even just on the Rational level, there will never be a world where Rape is logically arguable as being Amoral or morally acceptable.
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  #29  
Old 24-06-2019, 10:46 PM
TerramineLightvoid TerramineLightvoid is offline
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Originally Posted by ketzer
Getting angry at those who try to tell you the shadows are not reality is natural.
Pot meet kettle. You point to the shadows claiming another reality entirely with no actual proof. That's what's REALLY going on here.

Your little article and the scientists studying Quantum effects on the macroscale. Are pre-supposing based on a clump of 800 particles in an experiment oriented towards one of the most basic fundamental movements(shooting a ball, through a slit). To mean more than it really does. The whole problem is. In the original experiment and in this more recent example. You have actual measurable difference that matters. That you can actually observe these 2 probabilities, thus they both have an actual impact. Hence why you observe both discrete particles, AS WELL AS an interference pattern similar to a wave.

But seeing an 800 atom structure do this does not mean Macro scale. A /Molecule/ is not Macro scale. I will tell you one thing: If this applied to the macro scale we would already know it. It would be too unavoidable. Because every little action we do in our daily lives would count as a double slit experiment. Lemme give you an example. Take your Grandma for instance since that seems to be the favored example to use. Instead of Slits let's use Doors. If your argument was correct then when Grandma goes through 1 door she actually goes through both doors. Not JUST in 2 different universes but actually in 1 superimposed possibility in /this/ universe. You should measure some sort of impact or difference in the room she didn't enter... and in every other room in the building as well... all at the same time.

When someone plays baseball, when they go to swing their bat. The ball would be hit with the force of many bats all landing on the ball at different times and angles. Based upon the superimposed possibility of all the different probabilities of the person swinging the bat at the ball. This is what every scientist means when they say that probability doesn't work the same way at the Macro scale as it does the Quantum. Because the double slit experiment isn't just random nonsense that you get to make up what it means: It specifically means that we are witnessing 2 probabilities for the same object, happening at the same time, within the same universe.

The Macro scale equivalent would be impossible because all these different probabilities of all these different countless objects would be interfering with one another. There's a probability in some alternative universe where an Elephant is currently standing precisely where I am sitting. The double slit experiment MEANS, the elephant in the other probability... would be /SQUISHING ME PHYSICALLY SPEAKING, IN THIS UNIVERSE/. Despite there being no elephant actually physically here. Hence the particle acting like a wave when we SEE it as a discrete object. We never actually SEE the wave with our own eyes.

But you know all of this was overkill. All I really needed to do, to stop you at the door? Was ask you... "So when does the experiment begin when we shoot a macro sized ball through a macro sized slit?"

Again, you are a complete failure in life if you seriously think any of the actual science coming from your mouth... means that "all of life is a lie, we are god and we can do whatever we want herpity derpity!"
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  #30  
Old 24-06-2019, 11:09 PM
TerramineLightvoid TerramineLightvoid is offline
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Originally Posted by ketzer
Why I chose to experience life in such a society is hard for my limited human egoic focused mind to understand, but i have faith that my soul chose this experience for a reason, else I would probably have changed the channel by now.
See this is what I mean. Your... kind. As in the kind of person who comes up with these ideas, most often a Laymen who is a Weekend Warrior with science. Uses what they learn to try and extrapolate "truths" beyond our current reality with no actual functional purpose to back it up. Sure kid. The reason you can't jump off a building and /fly/ because you whim it... is because lowkey you don't really WANT to. Yeah no I'm not buying it you actually deep down know it can't be true... because if it were you would not have a convenient explanation for why you DON'T just snap your fingers and become God.

You just Ad Nihilo decide that you CHOSE not to. Look here bud. I've thought along similar lines as you at times. But the difference between me and you is... if I truly believed that kind of thing. I would spend my whole life being the guy to prove it and to make it happen. I most certainly wouldn't just talk about it. And look at that? Who in their right mind would CHOOSE mundane messed up human existence? That sounds like something a Drone who isn't destined to be anybody important.... would say. Only the goody two shoe by the book Joe, would rationalize and justify his own lame existence and look at his overlords with a poop eating grin saying "I love this man, thank you."

If you could just snap your fingers and exist in ANY reality you want. Nobody in their right mind would say they would CHOOSE /this/ world we live in. Bullshnizz, quit playin dude.
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