The Ecclesiastes

[ThatMan]

Sometimes I feel the way the Ecclesiastes felt, it's all vanity. Do you?

Vanity, vanity, vanity!

A man spends his entire life working.. and for what? In the end he dies.
A man spends his entire life gaining wealth and in the end dies.. and for what?
People fight for temporary things and in the end they all lose these temporary thing... and for what?
People marry and have children, in the end, they die and their children die too... and for what?
The same human experiences are repeated on and on, moment by moment... and for what?
Empires controlled the world and now they are ashes, kings have ruled and now they are shadows, all that you can obtain in this life, you will lose... and for what?
The man who has all now we lose all later.. and for what?

I look at my fellow human beings and I see them running in circles, always running, same experiences repeating on and on, nothing is changing, it's the same scene on and on.. and for what?

A child cries because his parents are fighting, a brother and a sister fight for the legacy of their parents, a girl that was raped asks herself what wrong has she done to deserve this, a sick child is spending his last moments in a hospital.. and for what?

All the experiences that could ever be experienced by a human being have been already experienced and the same experiences keep repeating themselves on and on, same old, same old, there's nothing new under the Sun, it's all vanity!

It's all vanity, vanity, vanity! There's no end to this, it's like a song playing over and over again.. what's more to be experienced? There's nothing new under the Sun! Conquer the space and you will still be a man, rule the world, and you will still lose it..

These are my words, I only read the Ecclesiastes once but sometimes feel as if I am the Ecclesiastes.

Vanity...

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

Sometimes I feel the way the Ecclesiastes felt, it's all vanity. Do you?

Vanity, vanity, vanity!

A man spends his entire life working.. and for what? In the end he dies.
A man spends his entire life gaining wealth and in the end dies.. and for what?

These are my words, I only read the Ecclesiastes once but sometimes feel as if I am the Ecclesiastes.

Vanity...

ThatMan,

First of all.....thanks for broaching this subject.....:) I fought for years lacking understanding and the point of Eccelesiastes. It almost seemed out of place in the Bible. It is depressing in a way but it is hard to dispute the observations of the author(Solomon ?). But now I can see that it teaches a valuable lesson.

When one reads it and notices that the phrase "under the sun" is used numerous times we should ask ourselves that if there is something 'under the sun' then should we consider that there might be something 'over the sun' ? This helps me to understand. 'Over the sun' can be thought of as the realm of God. 'Under the sun' is the earth which we live in. The earth as we know it and live in it is temporary in nature. All comes to death, most certainly our time on this earth.

Understanding this fact allows us and impels us to re-direct the focus of our existence. It is encouragement and motivation to seek the eternal. It is this focus which can give meaning to our life. We must come to realize that our ultimate result and end is not defined by death but rather should be defined by the eternal.

Part of the lyrics of a hymn come to mind:

"Time is filled with swift transition,
Naught of earth unmoved can stand,
Build your hopes on things eternal,
Hold to God's unchanging hand."

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by Molearner

ThatMan,

First of all.....thanks for broaching this subject.....:) I fought for years lacking understanding and the point of Eccelesiastes. It almost seemed out of place in the Bible. It is depressing in a way but it is hard to dispute the observations of the author(Solomon ?). But now I can see that it teaches a valuable lesson.

When one reads it and notices that the phrase "under the sun" is used numerous times we should ask ourselves that if there is something 'under the sun' then should we consider that there might be something 'over the sun' ? This helps me to understand. 'Over the sun' can be thought of as the realm of God. 'Under the sun' is the earth which we live in. The earth as we know it and live in it is temporary in nature. All comes to death, most certainly our time on this earth.

Understanding this fact allows us and impels us to re-direct the focus of our existence. It is encouragement and motivation to seek the eternal. It is this focus which can give meaning to our life. We must come to realize that our ultimate result and end is not defined by death but rather should be defined by the eternal.

Part of the lyrics of a hymn come to mind:

"Time is filled with swift transition,
Naught of earth unmoved can stand,
Build your hopes on things eternal,
Hold to God's unchanging hand."

My pleasure! When I read it for the first and last time, I finally understood that I was not the only one understanding the vanity of this material world, but when all those around you play the game, you too try to play the game, even if you are just pretending, fully knowing that it's all vanity!

@Molearner, how does one reach the place "over the Sun"? We are "forced" to play the game, even if we run from the world and hide ourselves in forests and caves, as many of the saints did, we are stil playing the game by running away from it. This is a game, if this would have been something serious, mankind would have advanced to a new stage, but we keep repeating the same experiences on and on... it's a game and people like to play it. You don't eat, you die, you don't drink water, you die, you don't sleep, you die, you have to play the game, you can't run from it, you commit suicide, you die, you can't run from death, you can't find liberation with the help of this world, everything that happens in this world, is of this world.
.
Yes, all comes to death, this is the nature of this world, there's no escape from this, so why bother with the material world when at the end, you take nothing with you? Why fight with your brother for a temporary thing when you will lose it in the end? Why can't humanity wake up from this endless running in circles, same old things keep repeating themselves on and on...

The Ecclesiastes saw this with more than 2000 years ago when the world was far more simple, and nothing changed, absolutely nothing, there's nothing new under the Sun... It's like the whole world is under a spell, we all play the game as if it lasts forver but the game has an end..

Have fun, indulge in the pleasures of life, party all day long, party all night long, do what you feel to do, be yourself, do all these things.. but in the end, they offer no liberation, you're just a man and you will die like a man.

There's nothing from this world that can push the man just with a tiny step closer to God, it's all vanity. Have the knowledge you want, be the smartest, the richest, the most famous, the most loved, in the end, you still die like a man.

All that could ever be experienced, has been experienced, all the ways have been tried, all the paths have been walked, all the choices have been made, and in the end, none of this offers liberation, you still die like a man.

Be the most beautiful, pride with your beauty, you will lose it.
Have the most beautiful voice, pride with your voice, you will lose it.
Marry with the most beatiful girl, she will grow old and in the end, you will lose her.
Be with the most handsome boy, he will grow old and in the end, you will lose him.

Fight with your fellow human being about religion, it's ok, billions have done this, you too do it, nothing new under the Sun!
Chose a political side, it's ok, billions have done this, you too do it, nothing new under the Sun!
Do your best to assure yourself the best life you could ever have, walk over others, only to assure your own good, do it, billion have done this, you will still die, but do it, nothing new under the Sun!


Run to the left, run to the right, run to the top, run to the bottom, it does not matter where you run, you are still under the Sun! Hide in the deepest place, reach the highest mountain, you are still under the Sun!

[Molearner]

[quote=ThatMan
We are "forced" to play the game, even if we run from the world and hide ourselves[/QUOTE]

ThatMan,

Yes, we are forced to play the game and like any game there is a prize. If we play it right we win Life(with a capital) meaning eternal life. If we lose we only win life(no capital) meaning earthly life only and death. So our time on earth has a purpose.

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by Molearner

ThatMan,

Yes, we are forced to play the game and like any game there is a prize. If we play it right we win Life(with a capital) meaning eternal life. If we lose we only win life(no capital) meaning earthly life only and death. So our time on earth has a purpose.

Show me this eternal life, guide me to this eternal life, it's over the Sun, I can't see it, I am under the Sun, we are all under the Sun, in this heat, we all toil, there's no exception. The richest and most powerful men are still under the Sun with us, there's no easy way, there's no better place under the Sun because we are everywhere under the Sun!

I seek in outside, I am still under the Sun, I seek within, I am still under the Sun..

What is the purpose? To learn, after billions and billions and billions of times of repeating the same experiences over and over again, humanity keeps repeating them over and over again, nothing new under the Sun!

What is the purpose? To find the way over the Sun? You can't find the way, you are under the Sun, someone must come from over the Sun to show us the way, same say Christ has shown the way, some don't believe in Him, some don't care about Him, some never heard about Him, but we, we all, we are all still under the Sun... it does not matter what belief you have, you are still under the Sun.

It's all vanity, all the theories about our home and our destination, vanity, they create more confusion than it was in first place, vanity!

Nothing of this world, that comes from this world, can show us the way over the Sun, we are always and everywhere under the Sun!

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

ThatMan,

Yes, we are forced to play the game and like any game there is a prize. If we play it right we win Life(with a capital) meaning eternal life. If we lose we only win life(no capital) meaning earthly life only and death. So our time on earth has a purpose.

Life on Earth definitely has a meaning and the meaning is what you put into life

[sky]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

Show me this eternal life, guide me to this eternal life, it's over the Sun, I can't see it, I am under the Sun, we are all under the Sun, in this heat, we all toil, there's no exception. The richest and most powerful men are still under the Sun with us, there's no easy way, there's no better place under the Sun because we are everywhere under the Sun!

I seek in outside, I am still under the Sun, I seek within, I am still under the Sun..

What is the purpose? To learn, after billions and billions and billions of times of repeating the same experiences over and over again, humanity keeps repeating them over and over again, nothing new under the Sun!

What is the purpose? To find the way over the Sun? You can't find the way, you are under the Sun, someone must come from over the Sun to show us the way, same say Christ has shown the way, some don't believe in Him, some don't care about Him, some never heard about Him, but we, we all, we are all still under the Sun... it does not matter what belief you have, you are still under the Sun.

It's all vanity, all the theories about our home and our destination, vanity, they create more confusion than it was in first place, vanity!

Nothing of this world, that comes from this world, can show us the way over the Sun, we are always and everywhere under the Sun!

Vanity is excessive pride in oneself or one's achievements, you do have a choice not to join that club.

You can still enjoy your life..... It isn't all or nothing you find a balance.

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by sky123

Vanity is excessive pride in oneself or one's achievements, you do have a choice not to join that club.

You can still enjoy your life..... It isn't all or nothing you find a balance.

Find the balance, be heavier, be lighter, it does not matter, there's only one final destination, death, nothing new under the Sun! It does not matter what you do under the Sun, it does not matter what you try, you can not run from being under the Sun, you are always under the Sun! In your mind, in your dreams, in your wakefulness, you are always under the Sun!

Walk the middle path, walk the right path, walk the wrong path, you are still under the Sun and you will still be till your last moment.

Show me a place that it's not under the Sun, can you? Show me a choice that's not under the sun, can you? Show me a living style that it's not under the Sun, can you? It's all under the Sun and there's nothing new under the Sun!

Achieve secret knowledge, see things that the mortal eyes have not seen, hear things that the mortal ears have not heard, you are still under the Sun....

Billions over billions have just enjoyed their life, of course, only under the Sun!

Life under the Sun is... life under the Sun.. and this is not life, this is life under the Sun, you play the game, you can't run from it, break the rules, respect the rules, create rules, destroy rules, you can not run from being under the Sun, it starts under the Sun and it ends under the Sun!

[sky]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

Find the balance, be heavier, be lighter, it does not matter, there's only one final destination, death, nothing new under the Sun! It does not matter what you do under the Sun, it does not matter what you try, you can not run from being under the Sun, you are always under the Sun! In your mind, in your dreams, in your wakefulness, you are always under the Sun!

Walk the middle path, walk the right path, walk the wrong path, you are still under the Sun and you will still be till your last moment.

Show me a place that it's not under the Sun, can you? Show me a choice that's not under the sun, can you? Show me a living style that it's not under the Sun, can you? It's all under the Sun and there's nothing new under the Sun!

Achieve secret knowledge, see things that the mortal eyes have not seen, hear things that the mortal ears have not heard, you are still under the Sun....

Billions over billions have just enjoyed their life, of course, only under the Sun!

Life under the Sun is... life under the Sun.. and this is not life, this is life under the Sun, you play the game, you can't run from it, break the rules, respect the rules, create rules, destroy rules, you can not run from being under the Sun, it starts under the Sun and it ends under the Sun!

Life involves more than what happens “under the sun.”

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by sky123

Life involves more than what happens “under the sun.”

Give meaning, take away meaning, find no meaning, create meaning, do all that you want to do, run to the left, run to the right, go up, go down, you are always under the Sun... All that this world has to offer, is of this world, born out of this world, there's nothing new because this new must come from a place above the Sun.

You say: I CREATE MY OWN DESTINY; but at the end of life, you will understand: I was always under the Sun, playing the game, even when I was thinking that I was not playing it; how can you not play the game when you are within the game? Everywhere you go, you are always under the Sun.

It's all an endless cycle of experiences that keeps repeating itself... nothing new... 4000 years ago, a boy fell in love with a girl, in this very moment, thousands boys fall in love with thousands girls, same old, same old!