Doesn’t the drama of it get old?

[hitch]

Ketzer!! What a money quote, my friend. Right on target!

Originally Posted by ketzer

I know, especially when you catch it and bit down on it only to feel that sharp pain. Then you realize that what you are chasing is something inside of you and that person, place, or thing out there was really just what you were mistakenly believing was going to get you that something. Once you realize this the drama starts to seem a little naive, the chasing less urgent, and one does not bit down so hard right away for fear of breaking a tooth.

Originally Posted by hitch

Ketzer!! What a money quote, my friend. Right on target!

[Pequena Estrela]

I wonder whether I have reached this point too. Suffered too much at the hands of those who professed to love me - whether as friends or potential romantic interests - but who proved with their actions that they had nothing but hatred, envy and lust for making me suffer in their hearts.

I know one thing for sure - I can't trust anyone ever again. I've seen and experienced it too many times - people trusting someone new, a new friend, a new lover, whatever - and that person abusing that trust. Abusers/narcissists and scammers are everywhere.

Now I wouldn't even give anyone a chance to get close to me unless they were to prove their trustworthiness. Trust needs to be earned!

Originally Posted by Pequena Estrela

But I do wonder why some soulmates/twin flames run. Do they not realize at soul level that they are meant to be with us? Why run?

I always thought, if someone runs, let them.

They run because they aren't working to the same agenda; or they're just not interested. Or they aren't a twin and just get fed up with being harassed. One can never own another person or their emotions and the sooner that's realised the easier someone can move on.

I'd say it's as simple as that at core. Humans make a right complication out of the mating game. If you like someone, get on well with them, if between you you can make the necessary compromises, appreciate each other and each support the other unconditionally, you have a good relationship. Countless elderly who have been together for many years and are now inseparable show that. And 'twin flame' never entered their minds or the huge majority at least.

Mentioning "twin flame" can foul things up. It comes with obligations and commitments most people aren't in a position to offer in the first few months of a 'romance'.
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[Tuesday]

This whole "runner" and "chaser"- idiom is plain creepy.
It talks about harrasment and stalking and someone desperately trying to get away from it.
Doesn't matter if you put the lable "twin flame" in front of it. It is exactly the same deal, twin lame, soul mate, karmic relationship or just two humans interacting with each other.
Please stop looking at the lable and see the real thing underneath.

[Pequena Estrela]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

They run because they aren't working to the same agenda; or they're just not interested. Or they aren't a twin and just get fed up with being harassed. One can never own another person or their emotions and the sooner that's realised the easier someone can move on.

I'd say it's as simple as that at core. Humans make a right complication out of the mating game. If you like someone, get on well with them, if between you you can make the necessary compromises, appreciate each other and each support the other unconditionally, you have a good relationship. Countless elderly who have been together for many years and are now inseparable show that. And 'twin flame' never entered their minds or the huge majority at least.
.

That's very true that folks have to realize that they cannot own another person! But I don't think that's the issue here.

Most couples that I have spoken to have told me that one of them was not interested to start with, and that the other fought for them. And then the one that was not interested - ie the "runner" - realized that the other person - the "chaser" - loved them, and they grew to love them too.

A lot of elders have also told me that, if a man has to fight for a woman, he will really appreciate her. For some reason this doesn't seem to be acceptable the other way round though (or maybe it is nowadays).

But if I find that someone is running - I let them, maybe because it's not worth pursuing them, or maybe I have this traditional way of thinking that a man has to fight for a woman but the same cannot happen vice versa.

A relationship like you describe, where two people like each other, respect and trust each other and make the necessary compromises is of course how it should be - but how does one achieve that if one of the two people doesn't somehow fight for the other - and if it's just by plucking up the courage to talk to the other person? I mean, two people don't just meet and suddenly say at the same time "I like you" and everything is hunky dory after that. What about trying to impress the other, which is part of courting - isn't that also fighting for the other person?

It doesn't seem to go that way that two people just meet and decide simultaneously that they like each other.

As for soulmates - all happily married people that I know and have known, especially older ones who have been married for many decades, say that they knew they had met their soulmate the moment they met their future partner. Not one of them said, oh never mind, if it wasn't him/her it would have been someone else.

Originally Posted by Pequena Estrela

I know one thing for sure - I can't trust anyone ever again. I've seen and experienced it too many times - people trusting someone new, a new friend, a new lover, whatever - and that person abusing that trust. Abusers/narcissists and scammers are everywhere.

That's sad. And unless you can change that it'll blight your life. When you say these people are everywhere, has it crossed your mind that the problem might lie within you? Gullibility? Setting expectations too high? Getting emotionally committed too quickly? Becoming the person's therapist? Meeting someone with mental problems who can't be relied upon?

Now I wouldn't even give anyone a chance to get close to me unless they were to prove their trustworthiness. Trust needs to be earned!

It's really best not to put yourself in a position of having to trust someone, which seems to be what you're saying here. Point is, you need to work to the same ground rules as someone you seem to be getting on with. Make sure that's understood.

I so hope you're able to get out of this impasse. It'll need a fair bit of contemplation but worth it.

[Pequena Estrela]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

That's sad. And unless you can change that it'll blight your life. When you say these people are everywhere, has it crossed your mind that the problem might lie within you? Gullibility? Setting expectations too high? Getting emotionally committed too quickly? Becoming the person's therapist? Meeting someone with mental problems who can't be relied upon?


It's really best not to put yourself in a position of having to trust someone, which seems to be what you're saying here. Point is, you need to work to the same ground rules as someone you seem to be getting on with. Make sure that's understood.

I so hope you're able to get out of this impasse. It'll need a fair bit of contemplation but worth it.

Why please does coming across negative people make ME gullible?

Everybody I know who isn't a negative person has experienced the same by the way. Bad exes, friends that one had to get rid of - gosh, we live in a narcissistic time, such people are everywhere.

I don't associate with such people, but trusting someone new that I meet - well, trust needs to be earned. But if they prove themselves to be trustworthy - after a while I suppose one knows if a person is genuine or not. One cannot go through life never trusting anyone. What about family?

Originally Posted by Pequena Estrela

Most couples that I have spoken to have told me that one of them was not interested to start with, and that the other fought for them. And then the one that was not interested - ie the "runner" - realized that the other person - the "chaser" - loved them, and they grew to love them too.

It can and does happen - but there's surely a limit depending on how 'distant' the runner gets; whether she/he keeps contact at all - and just the general feeling about the future.

A lot of elders have also told me that, if a man has to fight for a woman, he will really appreciate her. For some reason this doesn't seem to be acceptable the other way round though (or maybe it is nowadays).

But if I find that someone is running - I let them, maybe because it's not worth pursuing them, or maybe I have this traditional way of thinking that a man has to fight for a woman but the same cannot happen vice versa.

A relationship like you describe, where two people like each other, respect and trust each other and make the necessary compromises is of course how it should be - but how does one achieve that if one of the two people doesn't somehow fight for the other - and if it's just by plucking up the courage to talk to the other person? I mean, two people don't just meet and suddenly say at the same time "I like you" and everything is hunky dory after that. What about trying to impress the other, which is part of courting - isn't that also fighting for the other person?

Not sure about this fighting thing. If I met a guy who is too impetuous and insistent I'd suspect his motives. In the past it's usually been about trying to get me to bed. (LOL, I'm not a world class beauty but neither are most of the men I've encountered!)
But sometimes people meet, find each other pleasant and don't worry too much about liking each other at first. I met my current bf a couple of years ago at an art show. We were viewing the same exhibit. He made a witty remark, I smiled; we talked a little about the show then stopped for a coffee at the canteen there. There was no magical spark, no "my God when our eyes locked", almost no talking about ourselves except via art and a brief enquiry into what each other did (for work) as it was obvious we were both artistic. But we got on pretty well. Neither of us had to fight for the other.

As for soulmates - all happily married people that I know and have known, especially older ones who have been married for many decades, say that they knew they had met their soulmate the moment they met their future partner. Not one of them said, oh never mind, if it wasn't him/her it would have been someone else.

Interesting because my soulmate is my same gender. We met at zumba and found we popped into the same cafe after the session. It took a couple of years to get round to voicing the soulmate idea, and confessing we'd thought we were soon after meeting. It was about attitude, commonality in the way we think and act, etc. It's probable that many elderly couples recognise they're each others soulmates in the more mundane sense. They have to be to become 'as one' as they grow, embedded in the other's lives.

So....agreed!

Originally Posted by Pequena Estrela

Why please does coming across negative people make ME gullible?

Everybody I know who isn't a negative person has experienced the same by the way. Bad exes, friends that one had to get rid of - gosh, we live in a narcissistic time, such people are everywhere.

I don't associate with such people, but trusting someone new that I meet - well, trust needs to be earned. But if they prove themselves to be trustworthy - after a while I suppose one knows if a person is genuine or not. One cannot go through life never trusting anyone. What about family?

I didn't say you were. I wondered if you'd considered and I listed a few possibilities, really to suggest I wasn't just making a glib remark. You're right. Trust has to be earned. That can take time.



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