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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #991  
Old 11-05-2020, 03:58 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
This is one of the most profound truths available, and in many ways a great key for courageous aspirants to approach spiritual practice for the truest fulfillment of life.

The physical is not the totality of existence, but is simply a limited conditional aspect of the All-consciousness of existence. It is that conditional limitation that is the illusion which makes it seem like all, but which veils within it the true essence and origin, the Source which is therefore considered Real (vs. “illusion”). In the native status of the Real there is an awareness of that True Identity of all-consciousness in any status, including in the conditional limitation of the physical.

In the conditional ignorance of the physical, that potential awareness is always present, but instrumentally there is only a partial limited experience of it due to the conditional ignorance, i.e., maya, which is the false appearance and instrument of separative cognition.

Not only does the quoted statement validate all of reality as being essentially equal, regardless of variable differentiation as superficially, objectively, sensually apparent e.g., materialism when exclusive is a profound falsehood, i.e., “illusion.” But it implies that consciousness - all of it, because everything is consciousness - is available, accessible, realizable, and serviceable in the physical regardless of the infinite range of expression in and through that self-same equality of divine essence of One Being.

This Oneness of Being as embodied in and through any individuated being instrumentally aware of that equally available Truth of Identity, when permanently established, is what realization is.

This represents the true significance of immanence, the omnipresence of consciousness as equivalent to and inseparable from existence in any aspect, status, or formation, and the implication of omnipotence as the innate facility of the all-consciousness to create those differentiations - including dynamically as becoming, transforming - as intrinsically, inalienably, and irrevocably available to that inherent equality of consciousness. iow…

All existence (physical or non-physical) is …all consciousness… all power, all presence, all form.


~ J
Nothing else??? Such 'vision' of assumed-to-be-the-whole-truth is really just another version of 'myopic' projections of the Oneness of Life, IMO.

What I am 'Conscious' of is the fact (at least I think its is a fact ) that The PRIMARY formative and transformative power is that of Spirit. 'Consciousness' is merely a SECONDARY, potentially discerning of 'better' ways to LIVE spectator.
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Last edited by davidsun : 11-05-2020 at 08:04 PM.
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  #992  
Old 11-05-2020, 04:31 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Adams
"You will know the truth, that the whole world is consciousness, nothing else."

…continued…


If and when realized by transcending the conditional limitations of ignorance in the physical by intelligent personal will (yoga sadhana/spirituality), this does not diminish, limit, or bind that essential equality through the realized Oneness of an essential divinity (Being), nor does it preclude or negate by exclusion, the possibility of a consciously divine individuated being within the multiplicity of life operating dynamically as an instrument of the truth-consciousness as God’s Will embodied.

The erroneous conclusion that an innate and therefore equally available divinity may NOT express creatively in and through any individual is often posed by a facile “perfectly” reasoned misconception that Oneness as direct experience is necessarily mutually exclusive of the multiplicity, including as individually instrumentalized in the physical. That’s simply not true, even if reason-able.

In fact, great realized souls are the demonstration of such possibility, although reasoned incorrectly by specious premise that realization must be impossible, a fantasy, theory, or an escape and abrogation of human potential and moral responsibility as conjured and misconstrued by materialist/dualist reasoning, the basis of which is that divinity/oneness is exclusively or conditionally extrinsic to the creation/universe/cosmic physical, which accordingly gives Divine Purpose/Will/Vision a back-seat priority as either impossible or not applicable to life, and that consequently, but mistakenly - the realizing of Oneness, the instrumental confluence with God’s Will, the becoming of That; the Truth of what it achieves, embodies, and offers to humanity may only be experienced as an escape, evasion, and travesty…utter nonsense (even if logically determined as “true”).

It is not true that as falsely reasoned, spirituality/realization is a negation, inhibition, prohibition, avoidance, abdication, etc. of evolution and the emergence of divinity in the physical. Rather, the realization of Oneness is a requisite toward a more integral instrumentalization of it in the physical, thereby leading to greater transformation and fulfillment; it is a means to it, and the truest real fulfillment of it when integrally and dynamically operating fully consciously in the physical.

This attainment - one that humanity and the world desperately needs - should not be disparaged but hopefully by better understanding, supported and encouraged, because it is that self-same Divinity which is innately realizable by its emergence in and through earthly experience of that equally present potential of availability in the conditionally ignorant physical by a spiritual aspiration. It is that increasingly conscious emergence of Spirit in and through the individuated being, e.g., the becoming of Being, the fulfillment of Divine intention which transforms life …if we utilize it, especially by the conscious deliberate concentration and acceleration by spiritual practice by whatever legitimate means. This emergence of Spirit and full permanent instrumental attainment of that essence previously veiled as potential is made available by the intrinsic equality of Oneness of the All-consciousness, and is therefore able to be awakened, concentrated and accelerated by yoga/spiritual practice that may - and must - transcend physical, vital, and mental limitation in human beings in order to then manifest as a true transformation of life.

What the quoted passage represents is the potential for releasing the ultimate freedom and fulfillment as confluent with God’s Will in the physical by permanent realization, because that represents the truest manifestation of the most authentic consciousness - Divine - within the conditional ignorance of the physical (Krishna: “become a mere instrument”; Jesus Christ: “not my will, but Thine…”), as exemplified by the great realized sages and avatars throughout history as demonstration of what is available and possible to human beings. What it implies further, as Sri Aurobindo offers in his contemporary revelation (circa early 20th Century, iow 100 years ago, as his teaching of the Integral Yoga, the original exposition of many subsequent uncredited, unattributed philosophically insipid derivations and faulty approximations), is the possibility of a profusion of divinity as essential identity creatively instrumentalized within the multiplicity of earthly life - first, in and through individuals, and then within the greater corpus of humanity as a comprehensive integrally harmonized entity itself, as a collective unity in fulfillment of the Divine Will/Vision in the physical; e.g., humanity as a harmonized being.

That this is not available, attainable, or aspirational per a “correctly” reasoned conclusion based on an incorrect or exclusive materiality or crypto- dualism, is still a falsehood based on incorrect premise: Spirit as separate from the material, not immanent; or qualified as restricted and not fully accessible within that immanence; available only by “escape” per archaic religious construct.

The truth of Oneness is that it represents when realized, the transcendence of an objective separative ego-mind and the superficial material cognition of a limited divided reality (recommend reading Sri Aurobindo on supra-mental consciousness). No matter how refined, how religiously pious, how moral, how ethical, how reasonable as a sensual, or mental/intellectual experience, how sublimated - - actions in the physical based on the limited cognition of ego/sense/desire-mind/intellect are still a limited and distorted conditional ignorance and will re-cycle and perpetuate such (samsara) while still untransformed, absent the direct transcendental experience and realization of Oneness of Being, the truth-consciousness of the essential equality of all Being as realized in the individually differentiated self.

That equality of consciousness realized by, in, and through spiritual means as an individualized instrumental divinity is hardly a limitation, usurpation, denigration, travesty, abdication, etc., of human potential - the commonly misconceived conclusion of a misguided logical-positivist exclusive material or dualist reason would, and usually does pose as a standard (and tired) convention - because it assumes a necessary escapism/exclusivity from the physical/material existence. On the contrary, it is a stupendous blessingful opportunity of universal access, potential, and fulfillment of Divine Intention, because of that essential equality - revealed and exemplified by the truly great spiritual sages and avatars, human beings throughout history Who have represented that self-same Divinity/Reality, like Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, Ramakrishna, Ramana, Aurobindo, etc. Their teachings directly addressing, inspiring and enabling this process of yoga sadhana leading to realization in the physical and thereby creating the further possibility as Aurobindo suggests of the actual divinization of the earthly physical life - an utter impossibility without first attaining an instrumental truth-consciousness in the individuated being; intrinsically impossible through the innately limited instrument of mind/ego-mind/desire-mind, no matter how myopically idealized intellectually, morally, ethically, or religiously in and through the abject travesty of erroneously equating concrete sense-mind or rational intellect as the exclusive manifestation of “consciousness”.


~ J
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  #993  
Old 12-05-2020, 05:12 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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***

@ Jyotir post 990

By synchronicity the same has been expressed in different words in the book LAYAYOGA - THE DEFINITIVE GUIDE TO THE CHAKRAS by Shyam Sundar Goswami, which I resumed today after a long hiatus.

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  #994  
Old 12-05-2020, 06:40 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
... revealed and exemplified by the truly great spiritual sages and avatars, human beings throughout history Who have represented that self-same Divinity/Reality, like Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, Ramakrishna, Ramana, Aurobindo, etc. ...
While agreeing with most of what is stated and/or implied in your post, J, I wish to state that the differences between Krishna's, Jesus's and Buddha's Source-dynamic-and-consequent-world-dynamic-views points to the fact (IMO it is a fact!) that consciousness is always subjective, i.e. personality-derivative, and (so) never absolutely indicative of how something thing 'really' is.

I cannot comment on any differences, if any, between the views of Ramakrishna, Ramana, Aurobindo (based on the little I have read of their words, they seem to be 'perfectly' lineage-ic clones), except [/color] to say that their views stroke me as significanty differing from the views of Krishna, Buddha and Jesus which I am fairly familiar with.

My point in regards the above is that anyone's claims (beliefs?) that any of the above 'leaders' (or 'followers', as the case may be) views or their own if and as 'aligned' with them are 'transcendentally' obective are false, IMO, and therefore should be 'suspect' (i.e. they should be 'taken with a grain' of enlightenment-'salt' ).

I especially disagree with anyone who imagines that what he or she thinks of as "God's Will" is actually something other than what their Will is based on what they personally, i.e. subjectively project of "God" (i.e. the Source and Entity of All Being) to actually Be - just as was'done' (IMO) by Krishna, Jesus. Buddha and others who people have historically proclaimed to be fully realized 'avatars' to be.

Beware being seduced by the 'grandiosity' of thinking, feeling and believing that your or your "leader's" views are somehow absolutely (not just subjectively) 'true' or approaching being so, IOW!

See http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...58#post1932558 for additional perspective on the 'Advaita' component of this topic.
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Last edited by davidsun : 12-05-2020 at 08:05 PM.
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  #995  
Old 12-05-2020, 07:35 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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teachings of great people

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
While agreeing with most of what is stated and/or implied in your post, J, I wish to state that the differences between Krishna's, Jesus's and Buddha's Source-dynamic-and-consequent-world-dynamic-views points to the fact (IMO it is a fact!) that consciousness is always subjective, i.e. personality-derivative, and (so) never absolutely indicative of how something thng 'really' is.

I cannot comment on any differences, if any, between the viewsof Ramakrishna, Ramana, Aurobindo (based on the little I have read of their words, they seem to be 'perfectly' lineage-ic clones), except to say that their views stroke me as significanty differing from the views of Krishna, Buddha and Jesus which I am fairly familiar with.

My point in regards the above is that anyone's claims (beliefs?) that any of the above 'leaders' (or 'followers', as the case may be) views or their own if and as 'aligned' with them are 'transcendentally' obective are false, IMO, and therefore should be 'suspect' (i.e. they should be 'taken with a grain' of enlightenment-'salt' ).

I especially disagree with anyone who imagines that what he or she thinks of as "God's Will" is actually something other than what their Will is based on what they personally, i.e. subjectively project of "God" (i.e. the Source and Entity of All Being) to actually Be - just as was'done' (IMO) by Krishna, Jesus. Buddha and others who people have historically proclaimed to be fully realized 'avatars' to be.

Beware being seduced by the 'grandiosity' of thinking, feeling and believing that your or your "leader's" views are somehow absolutely (not just subjectively) 'true' or approaching being so, IOW!

See http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...58#post1932558 for additional perspective on the 'Advaita' component of this topic.

Many a times real teachings of great people are lost the glamor of words/religious jargon. But if you see Aurobindo's teachings https://www.aurobindo.ru/workings/sa/12/isha_17_e.pdf (page 308 - 309 ) , he too advocates the importance of intellect ,penance and selflessness in action .

Relevant portion is reproduced here for one's reference.

So following expert commentaries of such people you may get real insights . Effectively there appears nothings wrong on teachings of these people . Only that people may at times are unable to pay attention to detail.
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  #996  
Old 12-05-2020, 08:11 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
So following expert commentaries of such people you may get real insights . Effectively there appears nothings wrong on teachings of these people . Only that people may at times are unable to pay attention to detail.
Yes, and as long as one doesn't do what 'followers' of 'leaders' (like 'Muslims' of who they flag-wave as THE Prophet, for just one of many examples) have tradtionally done, which is to regard their utterances as 'final' or 'complete' revelations of THE Truth, they will be open to further 'knowledge'-evolution.
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  #997  
Old 25-05-2020, 11:07 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tara5
I'm dedicating this thread to Robert Adams (neo-Advaita teacher). ...

After all you are me and I am you.
There's no difference.
...
Robert Adams
No difference? Yikes - what a 'perspective'!

Do at least consider the following counter 'point', however:

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