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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Love & Relationships -Friends and Family

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  #1  
Old 11-09-2016, 08:44 PM
Phoenix72 Phoenix72 is offline
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Looks like marriage is over!

Well today has been an odd day, I woke up and made love to my wife, then her kids kicked off as usual fighting and when I tried to stop them I got abuse, no change there. Her kids do not respect me at all even though I try so hard.

I actually stopped closed my eyes and asked for help as this happens on and off. My kids keep quiet as they don't want to cause grief and my wife see's this as a personal vendetta against her. After all calmed down all of a sudden my wife was having a go at my daughter for not doing something, so a reaction to her own daughter and son's behaviour. Then she has a go at me, I unfortunately popped and told her a few things about her kids she didn't know as how the hell do I tell her her own son tried to hit me and lost it to a point where I had to hold him down to stop hurting himself along with her daughter pushing me and swearing at me. She even agreed their behaviour was out of order and need to be sorted.

All of a sudden all the kids were at fault and even though she loves me its not just about us and she has ended (not without trying to force me into making a decision) We both have worked so hard for this and love each other so much and for me you don't give up on that yet apparently its over? Never went a day without saying I love you to each other and now it looks like its gone. is it just Que sera sera? :(
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2016, 11:22 AM
Lorelyen
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Perhaps give it a little time to cool down. But your honesty prevails. You can't really go on like that through a life time. You may have to get away from the kids, the house too, to have a frank talk about it. A brief holiday would be nice if you can leave your home in safe care. They say that you have to withhold from kids, sanctions, to get them to behave. Have you tried anything like that? How old are they, by the way?

It would be a terrible shame for kids to wreck a loving marriage.


...
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  #3  
Old 14-09-2016, 03:41 PM
Morrigan Morrigan is offline
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Phoenix, I dont know what ages your and your wife's kids are, but I had an extremely difficult issue for many years with my two step daughters, who were 5 and 7 when I met my husband, at the time, my own daughters were aged 18 and 20 and were at university, they lived with my exH during the holidays, as I had moved out to live with my new partner, whom I later married.

Step issues cause many a second marriage to flounder and are extremely tricky. In my case, my husband's exW turned my step daughters against me, right from the word go, before she had even met me. I never managed to create a good enough relationship with my SDs because of this.

I found a huge amount of help and support from a specialist forum dealing with step issues - if you google "Step Talk" you will find it. I honestly think my marriage might not have survived had it not been for the help I received there.
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  #4  
Old 14-09-2016, 04:02 PM
002 Cents 002 Cents is offline
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My heart goes out to you I can't even begin to imagine. But I have seen great couples end over incompatibility issues with their children.

I just know your situation is not a first.

I wish you the best in sorting through what comes ahead. Don't lose hope yet. Maybe it was just the heat of the moment.
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  #5  
Old 14-09-2016, 04:24 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Phoenix72, first, I'm so sorry for your troubles.

Not everyone here has children...but you do, so that's a help for you to understand my thoughts.

I don't know your background, nor that of your current wife. You both do have children, and it's not clear how easily you both got disengaged previously from your prior partners (I'm assuming you both had prior partners who may have been your childrens' parents).

However -- just as a consideration -- if your current wife left her partner (their dad or perhaps the man who helped raise them) and the kids feel that everyone on their end was slighted except the two of you...then this is not a situation which will ever be easily healed or mended.

You can only make the best of it that you can. But if you want your marriage to work, then in this or any sort of vaguely similar situation, you're going to BOTH have to acknowledge the situation from their end and own that your coupled happiness has come at perhaps great cost or hardship to the kids.

Nothing else but authenticity, true empathy, and responsibility and some contrition and remorse for where you both have put them will allow you to try to forge a real relationship with them. I do wish you all the best on this regardless, as it's no easy road to hoe in any case.

The other point I wanted to make was that for most emotionally stable and mature parents, their children come first if push comes to shove. I realize that occasionally this is less so for men, particularly if they were never down with committing and/or having children to begin with. However, it is almost always the case with women. Only those women who are severely codependent or abused or unstable will stay in a situation that they don't feel is good for their children (even if they are part of the problem as in this case).

If I were unable to sort things properly because you were the other half of the equation and you simply wanted me to crack down on the kids, get them to shut up, and be a good authoritarian, I would probably leave fairly quickly. It's not the way to truly sort anything and kids are not dogs who must obey or be kerbed because otherwise you don't want to deal with their issues (though many in fact are kinder to their pets...).

Mediation is much better, and that means the kids get their say as well. You can ask that they own their stuff, and they can ask the same of you. Something is going on and even if it's all on her side and her situation in leaving to be with you...nonetheless, the children deserved to be treated as if what they say matters, and perhaps then you can learn more about them and the source of their pain, anger, or frustration.

If you propose this to their mum and NOT with the aim of coming down on the kids or pointing fingers at them or their mum, but truly with the intent of acknowledging their hardship, owning your part in it, and working with them as individuals in love to build trust and connections...then you may have a shot

Good luck, and all the best to you
7L
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Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #6  
Old 15-09-2016, 03:28 PM
Morrigan Morrigan is offline
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7luminaries, I agree with a lot of what you say, but not with the bit about children coming first. The agreed wisdom on step parenting is, and has been for a long time, that for step families to ever have a chance of working, the COUPLE has to be the primary concern. It is just no good if each partner puts their children first, and fights their partner because they are not treating their stepkids right. There has to be a strong, good bond between the couple, and then good parenting practice will hopefully follow from this.

I am obviously not speaking here about situations in which there is any actual abuse. Experts on the subject agree that it is the attitude of the biological parents that makes a big difference as to whether stepkids can ever make a relationship with their step parent. eg in my case, the (custodial) biological mother was determined that her kids would not like me, and I might have behaved like Mother Teresa, but nothing I could ever do was going to change this, unless the biological mother's attitude changed.

There are a lot of dynamics in a step parenting situation which only people have been in the situation can understand, and that is why I suggested a specialist forum for step parents.
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  #7  
Old 15-09-2016, 09:39 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrigan
7luminaries, I agree with a lot of what you say, but not with the bit about children coming first. The agreed wisdom on step parenting is, and has been for a long time, that for step families to ever have a chance of working, the COUPLE has to be the primary concern. It is just no good if each partner puts their children first, and fights their partner because they are not treating their stepkids right. There has to be a strong, good bond between the couple, and then good parenting practice will hopefully follow from this.

I am obviously not speaking here about situations in which there is any actual abuse. Experts on the subject agree that it is the attitude of the biological parents that makes a big difference as to whether stepkids can , the COUPLE has to be the primary concern.ever make a relationship with their step parent. eg in my case, the (custodial) biological mother was determined that her kids would not like me, and I might have behaved like Mother Teresa, but nothing I could ever do was going to change this, unless the biological mother's attitude changed.

There are a lot of dynamics in a step parenting situation which only people have been in the situation can understand, and that is why I suggested a specialist forum for step parents.

Morrigan, no disrespect intended to you and your situation, which sounds difficult. But I don't think an awful lot of sane, rational adults will universally agree with this bit. Nor that this bit must always be the case as it's just not always so all the time, even in many first marriages. Often, the kids' needs will take priority for many years because they're kids...especially timewise when younger but also emotionally as they get older and need guidance and wisdom. My son talks to me all the time about his concerns, and that interaction and guidance is as much a part of parenting as feeding and clothing him. It's a different kind of priority, but it's still very much a priority and one I would not compromise on, if someone were mistreating him or expected him to go quietly without having his voice heard and honoured. These really are very brutal and heavy-handed sorts of assumptions and tactics IMO.

If I were intimate with someone who treated my kids poorly then I'd have to question much more about myself than just my sanity. Of course, if my kids were just blatantly respectful to my partner, that's also not acceptable...but if I put them in a bad situation and they are just venting or frustrated...well, I've made my bed and now I've got to work with all hands on deck to navigate a safe passage. It's not simply "the kids' fault" IMO...it's as much mine and whomever else's, as we've sometimes had to amicably break up marriages to free ourselves to re-partner...and sometimes we've done so not nearly so amicably at all. In either case, the fallout often lands on the kids and we as adults must be, well...the adults I.e., compassionate and kind and forgiving, ideally.

For an awful lot of folks, whether in a first marriage or a 2nd (etc), the kids do come first when push comes to shove. Meaning, especially when their wellbeing is at stake. If that is not recognised as a priority then there is something wrong with the entire situation IMO. There is certainly no mandate that your partner must come first when he or she is mistreating the kids (???), even if short of full-on abuse. No offense, but that's a pretty strange and unpalatable "law" or rule...and I don't see many I have known following it.

Although the parents (natural or step) are primarily responsible, I don't see anything gelling without all parties being respected and heard. I'd follow my own wisdom and seek a family mediation which honours all parties, and if my partner wasn't down with that, then he'd not be partner for long. If the step parent is Mother Theresa and the kids are really vile and it's totally 100% black and white, then family mediation is still crucial, so that the step parent can also be heard alongside the kids. Again, here it's especially important to look at their feelings and allow them to voice and honour their feelings, even if you disagree. How else can you ask for respect if you do not also give it and thus model it and set the example?

Once again, no disrespect intended, but I disagree that a bad family situation for whatever reason means your partner is king or queen and should rightfully expect that your kids be kerbed and "put in their place". That all sounds pretty horrid really and I can't imagine wanting to fight for any of that, really.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #8  
Old 16-09-2016, 09:04 AM
Lorelyen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Morrigan, no disrespect intended to you and your situation, which sounds difficult. But I don't think an awful lot of sane, rational adults will universally agree with this bit. Nor that this bit must always be the case as it's just not always so all the time, even in many first marriages. Often, the kids' needs will take priority for many years because they're kids...especially timewise when younger but also emotionally as they get older and need guidance and wisdom. My son talks to me all the time about his concerns, and that interaction and guidance is as much a part of parenting as feeding and clothing him. It's a different kind of priority, but it's still very much a priority and one I would not compromise on, if someone were mistreating him or expected him to go quietly without having his voice heard and honoured. These really are very brutal and heavy-handed sorts of assumptions and tactics IMO.

If I were intimate with someone who treated my kids poorly then I'd have to question much more about myself than just my sanity. Of course, if my kids were just blatantly respectful to my partner, that's also not acceptable...but if I put them in a bad situation and they are just venting or frustrated...well, I've made my bed and now I've got to work with all hands on deck to navigate a safe passage. It's not simply "the kids' fault" IMO...it's as much mine and whomever else's, as we've sometimes had to amicably break up marriages to free ourselves to re-partner...and sometimes we've done so not nearly so amicably at all. In either case, the fallout often lands on the kids and we as adults must be, well...the adults I.e., compassionate and kind and forgiving, ideally.

For an awful lot of folks, whether in a first marriage or a 2nd (etc), the kids do come first when push comes to shove. Meaning, especially when their wellbeing is at stake. If that is not recognised as a priority then there is something wrong with the entire situation IMO. There is certainly no mandate that your partner must come first when he or she is mistreating the kids (???), even if short of full-on abuse. No offense, but that's a pretty strange and unpalatable "law" or rule...and I don't see many I have known following it.

Although the parents (natural or step) are primarily responsible, I don't see anything gelling without all parties being respected and heard. I'd follow my own wisdom and seek a family mediation which honours all parties, and if my partner wasn't down with that, then he'd not be partner for long. If the step parent is Mother Theresa and the kids are really vile and it's totally 100% black and white, then family mediation is still crucial, so that the step parent can also be heard alongside the kids. Again, here it's especially important to look at their feelings and allow them to voice and honour their feelings, even if you disagree. How else can you ask for respect if you do not also give it and thus model it and set the example?

Once again, no disrespect intended, but I disagree that a bad family situation for whatever reason means your partner is king or queen and should rightfully expect that your kids be kerbed and "put in their place". That all sounds pretty horrid really and I can't imagine wanting to fight for any of that, really.

Peace & blessings
7L

With no direct experience of this myself (except as a foster child) I can only agree. I suppose the problem is that good intentions often come with catches in the small-print. Parents think they're doing the right thing by remarrying and in many cases they are - but things don't turn out as they hoped and they're having to make the best of it,,,a best that might be worse than staying single/divorced. There really is no simple answer. Society has shifted from family being responsibility and duty to individuals' rights and entitlements. There are times when I ruefully see couples having children almost as an accessory. They can't afford kids, aren't willing to make the sacrifices but still go ahead.

To me, a very telling post and likewise I don't wish to offend Morrigan who is entitled to her views, but I fall on this side of the fence.

...
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  #9  
Old 16-09-2016, 03:58 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Lorelyen, thanks for your input
I really felt your energy and clarity on this, and as always I appreciate your contribution. I agree and your points are well taken IMO. I also feel that all the close relationships in our lives are important and meaningful and can all be immensely loving and rewarding, not only partnerships (and in fact often it's the partnerships that lack the mutual love and reciprocity, unfortunately).

The 20-something days of sacrificing the other loves in my life (including myself) to the alter of a partner are long gone. It has to be about a mutuality of authentic love, real partnership and reciprocity. About taking me as I am (i.e., a woman with attachments, with beloved family and friends). And not about lordship and the sacrifice of all other loves.

Likewise I too do not in any way wish to offend Morrigan or the OP, even if my position is a bit different to theirs. I meant more to just present to the OP a different perspective and to suggest the option of family mediation.

Peace & blessings all
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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