Who is "We", and, "Our" in John 3:11 ?

Originally Posted by zastrakoza

There are two witnesses on the earth, the water and the blood.

1 John 5
8And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

These verses in 1 John 5 have always intrigued me.

[zastrakoza]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

These verses in 1 John 5 have always intrigued me.

Oh thanks, Imthatim, for the reference. I was thinking that the holy spirit had not been given yet. Yes, this is a mystery. I am not sure, but believe it refers to John the Baptist and Jesus. And of course the Holy Spirit, which came later.

Z

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

These verses in 1 John 5 have always intrigued me.

ImthatIm,

In reference to your quote...."1 John 5
8And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one."

I can only understand this as referring to Christ and his death on the cross. John 19:34 records that a soldier pierced the side of Jesus and there was a flow of blood and water. In this gospel and others it is alternately translated in other verses that He gave up his spirit....or released his spirit or dismissed his spirit. All 3 were released to the earth(ground) and these are the proof,,,the bearing of witness on earth.

If one thinks about it......all 3....Spirit, water and blood.....are used as symbols of life elsewhere in scripture.....e.g. living water, etc. For Christians, it must be remembered, that technically man did not take the life of Christ....we are told that his death was an act of his own volition. It was his choice to give up his life. He always had a legion of angels at his disposal...He could have escaped the cross at any time.

Pentecost was the visible evidence of the outpouring of the Spirit but it had already been given at the time of the crucifixion.

Originally Posted by Molearner

ImthatIm,

In reference to your quote...."1 John 5
8And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one."

I can only understand this as referring to Christ and his death on the cross. John 19:34 records that a soldier pierced the side of Jesus and there was a flow of blood and water. In this gospel and others it is alternately translated in other verses that He gave up his spirit....or released his spirit or dismissed his spirit. All 3 were released to the earth(ground) and these are the proof,,,the bearing of witness on earth.

If one thinks about it......all 3....Spirit, water and blood.....are used as symbols of life elsewhere in scripture.....e.g. living water, etc. For Christians, it must be remembered, that technically man did not take the life of Christ....we are told that his death was an act of his own volition. It was his choice to give up his life. He always had a legion of angels at his disposal...He could have escaped the cross at any time.

Pentecost was the visible evidence of the outpouring of the Spirit but it had already been given at the time of the crucifixion.

Yes, I think these 3 have been used throughout the bible.
Sitting here I am reminded that we are gifted the Blood of Christ for remission of sin.
We are baptized in Water as a symbol of becoming a new man.
Then we receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

When I first read that verse and pondered it I seen it as the end of ages.

Water= Ending the Age with The Great Flood of Noah(promise with the rainbow)
Blood= The End of the Age of Blood sacrifice at the Cross.(Promise of the Comforter)
Spirit= Age we are in.

I appreciate your description and see they were all present at the Cross Blood,Water and Spirit.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

ImthatIm,

In reference to your quote...."1 John 5
8And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one."

I can only understand this as referring to Christ and his death on the cross. John 19:34 records that a soldier pierced the side of Jesus and there was a flow of blood and water. In this gospel and others it is alternately translated in other verses that He gave up his spirit....or released his spirit or dismissed his spirit. All 3 were released to the earth(ground) and these are the proof,,,the bearing of witness on earth.

If one thinks about it......all 3....Spirit, water and blood.....are used as symbols of life elsewhere in scripture.....e.g. living water, etc. For Christians, it must be remembered, that technically man did not take the life of Christ....we are told that his death was an act of his own volition. It was his choice to give up his life. He always had a legion of angels at his disposal...He could have escaped the cross at any time.

Pentecost was the visible evidence of the outpouring of the Spirit but it had already been given at the time of the crucifixion.

Can I jump in with my personal thoughts

We are Spirit, Blood and Water, these three make us what we are....

Originally Posted by sky123

Can I jump in with my personal thoughts

We are Spirit, Blood and Water, these three make us what we are....

Oh sure.
There you go ,bringing it back down to earth.

[Molearner]

There remains another point to be made: In this letter of John he was, in a way, responding to Gnostic teachings that Christ was not fully human....either postulating that he was a ghost or that he was sometimes divine and sometimes human. By using this terminology he was offering it as believable proof that he was fully human.....with a new element that also reflected his divinity....namely that he was also spirit. Spirit had been withheld from mankind from the expulsion from the Garden with the exception of the chosen few over all the time up to the crucifixion.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Oh sure.
There you go ,bringing it back down to earth.

But that's where I reside, for now

Originally Posted by sky123

But that's where I reside, for now

Yes you do.
I was actually surprised when I read your response.

"We are Spirit, Blood and Water, these three make us what we are...."

I was like, WOW I don't think I ever seen the simplicity of it in that way.

So, I actually think your response was brilliant, and I said to my self,
I must pull my head out of the clouds every once in a while when
looking at this stuff, to see the simplicity of life.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Yes you do.
I was actually surprised when I read your response.


I was like, WOW I don't think I ever seen the simplicity of it in that way.

So, I actually think your response was brilliant, and I said to my self,
I must pull my head out of the clouds every once in a while when
looking at this stuff, to see the simplicity of life.

“Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.” – Confucius.