seeing through the illusory self

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by janielee

It's a pity that it's a rare few, isn't it? Hopefully there'll be more and more
JL

Actually it isn't a 'pity', my friend...it's all part of the Cosmic Dance. It just is.


Remembering the 'non-duality' of reality is imp on our Path...these
little slips in our words shows the lack of this very necessary understanding.
Saying it is good, bad, a pity...keeps our subconscious mind locked into this false concept.
Just giving some unsolicited advice to a brother on the same Path, as usual !!
LOL

[Rabanne]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

You want to see yourself?...this is my input:
You have an inner mirror.
Sit in meditation and focus at the 3rd eye area.
Gently hold your eyes still...use your clean palms, your fingers on your eyelids...
use whatever is comfortable and easy.
Leaning your elbows on something helps.
The natural movement of the eyeballs interferes with your mind's laser like focus.
Use good earplugs...the waxy kind is best...not foam.
Sit for hours each day with a sincere focused heart on your Goal.
Have excellent hygiene.

Eat lightly, no heavy spices, beans, garlic, toxic things that could cause body changes, (tobacco,
pot, alcohol, caffeine )...nothing that would cause gas or belching...
that would distract you and make you 'body conscious'.

Sit for hours, relaxed, comfortable and straight so as not to doze off.
Make your mind and heart's intention clear..maybe with a prayer, a statement, a little ritual to
prepare yourself for each session of concentration and stilling the mind.
Turn all distractions off..pet's away someplace.

This is a successful, tried and true technique.
Google Sant Mat or Radha soami for inspiration.
If you'd like, learn Raja or Kriya Yogic meditation techniques.
If a teacher doesn't teach these, but only has inspiring words...find one who can...if
you go that route.
My take.

I do not want to learn anything new, I want to finally see one by one what everyone here is talking about.

[Rabanne]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Hi Rabanne. Welcome to the forum.

How to not see it? It’s THIS… right now… before you take your next breath.

Hi Moondance. Thank you for welcoming me here

I can't see it, because I never heard about it. I know only the first variation of the selfs namely 1.

[Rabanne]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Another way to consider this is that everything is real on its own level but it may be an illusion when considered from a higher level.

So if we bang our head then it hurts and the pain is real while it lasts. But the pain is temporary and is confined to the physical body, and so it is an illusion from a greater perspective.

As an alternative to the idea of maya, usually translated as illusion, we could use the word mithya meaning a relative reality.

Peace.

Are you now in that higher level and seeing all things from a greater perspective? If yes, how can I accompany you there?

[Rabanne]

Originally Posted by God-Like

When the body rests at night one's mindful spirit is always conscious of oneself it's just that most don't remember being so.
x daz x

luckily :-)

[Rabanne]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Find the real.
Then you can sort out illusion.
Until one touches the real they will believe the illusion is the real.
I believe many call it awakening.
Words can be a barrier.

And how can I tell the difference between real and illusion?

[Rabanne]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

seeing through the illusory self

Seeing ... looking, observing ... the pristinity necessarily excluding memory drawn imagery, preconceptions, ideas, beliefs ...

Getting to such an orientation, presence observing ... akin to meditating!

As for illusory self ... it is judgment to so judge without knowing, is it not?

Assume nothing.

Just being ... still enough ... long enough and we know. A knowing requiring no validation.

Love & Light

***

how to exclude memory drawn imagery, preconceptions, ideas, beliefs?

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Rabanne

how to exclude memory drawn imagery, preconceptions, ideas, beliefs?

***

First of all, we do not struggle ... any doing as a doer is counterproductive!

Initially, as a visualisation (later it becomes natural), imagine ourself as formless awareness as our default constitution who has for the moment chosen to ensoul this bodily form.

The body includes senses and the thinking process. Thinking is bifurcated into analytical and intuitive aspects. The analytical is the ego based doer mode ... a thinker thinking thoughts limited by experience of the limited known, that too coloured by perception and contoured by conditioning. The intuitive aspect is discouraged because it is ‘illogical’ and the doer disappears in it, which our limited self or ego does not like! The intuitive aspect allows us to connect and tap into Universal consciousness.

So, we as formless awareness looking at form. Looking without associating. Nonchalant observation. We are not but what is then that which is? Presence. Non-ego self presence.

Viewing some Eckhart Tolle videos might offer clarity on this.

This is also the essence of meditation. What happens during meditation? We are aware but without identity. We empty ourselves, so to speak and in stillness, just be. This allows the Divine energy to pour Itself into the void we have created within. Doing nothing, we simply cognise, imbibe and assimilate the flow.

Hope this explanation helps.

***

[Moondance]

Originally Posted by Rabanne

Hi Moondance. Thank you for welcoming me here

I can't see it, because I never heard about it. I know only the first variation of the selfs namely 1.

Okay that’s fair enough. Although, in one sense, we are never not seeing it (since it is THIS before thought says otherwise), there are many habits of mind which can obscure this.

And just to reiterate, regarding the first variation. This self (the specific body-mind-personality-matrix) is a verb, an activity. An expression of a ‘greater scheme’. It is the conceiving of it as separate and inherently existing that is a form of delusion.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by zorkchop

iamthat and janielee . . .

Please explain to the post / thread . . .

“consciousness rests in the formlessness”

I agree . . . so there is no contention here. But . . . to and for those that might not understand what this “formlessness” might be . . . please provide some degree of definition or guidelines. And yes . . . it *can* be so described . . . at least to the point where one can get a good yet vague realization of it.

So . . . what is . . . this formlessness . . . or . . . are you suggesting that it is a complete empty void in which there is nothing . . . form . . . formless . . . or any other recognizable feature or non-feature?

If we accept the idea of different planes of consciousness then the esoteric approach divides these into the planes of form (rupa) and formlessness (arupa).

The planes of form include the mental, emotional and etheric/physical levels. So thoughts are considered as forms but on a much more subtle level than e.g. a table. In terms of human experience, the personality is based on form.

The nature of form is limitation, movement and change. Thus form is considered to be an illusion, because it has no lasting reality.

The planes of formlessness are the planes of consciousness beyond the mental. In Theosophical terms these are the Buddhic, the Atmic, the Monadic and the Divine. In terms of human experience, these are the planes of Being as experienced by consciousness.

The nature of formlessness is unity, stillness and changelessness. So formlessness is considered as the reality behind the illusion. In meditation this is "experienced" as a Void. The realisation of formlessness is the realisation of an emptiness without limits which is also a fullness because it is complete.

Which raises the question, how can states of formlessness be divided into separate planes?

A possible answer is that the planes of formlessness experienced by human consciousness are in fact still contained within greater states of form (Cosmic Form for want of a better term). What a human might consider as a very high state of consciousness could be considered as a very low state from the perspective of a greater Being.

Everything is relative.

Peace.