Can I trust my guides again?

Trust yourself. Use your common sense. If I had it my way, I'd tell everyone to drop the spirit guide idea now and forever.

I don't think it's necessary to turn to someone else to live our lives. I really don't think it's as easy as people seem to think it is to talk to someone outside ourselves. And when we think we do, I think it's possible that we're really talking to ourselves. And when we seemingly get information that seems outside of ourselves, I think it's possible we muddle it up with our own ego. So like, let's say you get "a message"... and later you get info that you swear you couldn't have ever come up with on your own. Well, you're probably going to automatically assume that both "the message" and the "info" both came from the same source. But, it's possible that's not the case. And even so, I think it's smart to ask for identification (but again, it's possible for our own imagination to get in the way). And if "the source" isn't very clear about who they are and their intentions... that should be a red flag. I would think that if someone outside of us were trying to help us... that actually care about us, they would hopefully be clear about who they are and why they're talking to you.

But also, I think it's possible that too many people put "spirit guides" on a pedestial. I rarely come across anyone who thinks it's possible that "spirit guides" are just regular people. They automatically assume these guides have all the answers. Realistically, they probably don't. And even if they do, why would they give it to you? That would defeat the purpose of you trying to figure **** out on your own.

I think it's possible, that if spirit guides are real, and if they're just regular folk... they might also have their own sense of humor and their own sense of what is right and what is wrong. And these things might not necessarily agree with your own beliefs.

So when it comes to "getting wrong information" from a source seemingly outside of ourselves... if it is truly from outside of ourselves... then consider that when you open yourself up to that kind of stuff, you might also be opening yourself up to being messed with.

I mean consider yourself being dead right now. Consider your friends. Now consider them going, "hey, this dude over there thinks he can hear spirits... let's test him! this might be fun!"

Also, if it were so easy to speak and hear spirit, I don't think there would be so much conflicting information out there.

I mean so many people thought they were getting information about 12/21/2012. Look at how many people feel betrayed by their sources.

Now, that either means they were merely getting information from their own imagination... or their so-called-guides were just feeding them information they thought they wanted to hear. And this should be a good lesson for them... and hopefully they're not still wondering if their sources will help them because it's clear that this type of help isn't help at all... but merely a way to waste your time.

------

Fae, what you experienced infuriates me. After reading what you went through, I immediately wanted to rage about it. Not at you, but at your "guide". I thought, "how dare someone who claims to be helping and loving, say, that at any point, they did not love you." A lot of what you went through conflicts. For example, you say your guide told you to go back to Christianity... but you also think he wants you trust him again. When clearly, trusting him, would be against Christianity. I think it's possible, that your own ego and imagination may have had a lot to do with what you thought you heard.

I feel very emotional about your story because I went through something similar. It started spring of 2012 and I'm still not over it. And I'm not even entirely sure it's over with. In the beginning, I was told things that catered to the illusion of everyone being clones and I was the only real person, that I'm living a dream, that there's a limit to how many times one can incarnate and that I was on my second to last one... and if I don't do what this being says, my next incarnation would be much more difficult and I was given a list of things I would be punished with due to my mistakes in this life. I feel I was lucky enough that this information I received was so bizarre and out of this world, that it conflicted with my common sense so much that I finally told this... source, that I won't do what he says because God is unconditional love, and if I were to receive such punishments, they weren't so far off (such as being crippled, deaf, in a diaper, etc) that I knew since others were born into it and had to go through it, if they can do it... so can I! However, that was only one of many more episodes throughout this past year.

A lot more happened but I'm still not ready to share the entirety of my experiences. But I can see how most of society would call this, being... a trickster of sorts. But there were also times during this... journey, where I tell myself that a lot of what happened, happened because my own ego and negative attitude got in the way. Part of me wants to believe it was never my guide in the first place... that my true guide doesn't communicate in this way. That if we have guides, they have been doing their job since our birth without us knowing and that's the way it should stay. Part of me also believes that guides might be an illusion that we can choose to believe or not. And if we decide to believe they are a part of life, then either our imagination will make one up, or someone who cares about us will volunteer.

I don't know if it's possible for spirits with less than good intentions (such as messing with us for their own entertainment) to interfere when we think we're communicating with our guide. I mean a part of me goes, if there's a good spirit there, and a mischievious spirit pops in... the good spirit should be able to diffuse the situation or call upon friends to help him diffuse it. And since I don't ever hear of stories that cater to this idea... I feel that most of the time, the mischieviousness that we experience must be coming from our own imagination. Also, having a conversation in your head... it's quite a difficult thing to differentiate between your own voice and theirs. I think people thinking they're "telepathic" can be a very dangerous thing, specially in moments when they feel angry or sad.

I say this because I don't want to believe that my "guide" would do and say the horrible things that I've experienced. Because if he did, regardless for the excuses to be made... this "guide" is now an enemy. He is no longer welcome in my sphere of existence. I've been told many lies as well. It saddens me to a point, because throughout my experiences, I was led to believe this... being cares very much about me. And even if this being was my imagination, I'm still angry and bitter towards "the good guys" for allowing this to happen.

I was lucky. I had precognitive dreams that warned me I was going to experience this years before it happened. So I'm lucky that I have this type of... protection.

It was difficult for me to comprehend what was going on. But I feel that the first "episode" of this stuff was to show me that even though I thought (past tense) I was talking to a spirit, that I shouldn't automatically trust spirit. There were more episodes down the line that were even worse than the one I shared. And I know if not for the first one, I may not have come out of the other episodes alive.

My experiences traumatized me to the point that I still hear voices. But these voices don't say much and don't seem to be very smart. They only repeat my own thoughts. They don't sound like a regular voice, they sound like a chipmunk in my ear. And I know this sound was instigated, due to me reading many years ago about how Sylvia Browne says spirit guides sound like chipmunks chirping in her ear. Part of me believes I have this... disorder, due to a self preservation system. Where I was sick and tired of hearing voices so my brain/ego went into hyperdrive and decided this was a smart thing to do to protect myself. But the other part of me, is paranoid that by accepting these things as part of myself... I'll never rid of them.

Because of this, I am resentful for the interactions I have had with "spirit". Part of me feels, that if someone were really trying to help me, and truly cared about me, they never would have interfered in my life in such a way as to cause this trauma. Even these voices were part of my precognitive dreams. I didn't understand what the dreams were the first time I had them, but they repeated themselves again after my episodes started in real life to help me understand.

Fae, if you consider it... everything is God-energy. So an entity saying they are God-energy doesn't automatically mean they're nice. I mean... EVERYTHING is God-energy. You are God-energy. Grass. Air. Farts. Plastic. Rainbows. Rain. Clouds. Cars... everything in existence is God-energy if you want nitpick the idea of what is.

But I am glad that you did receive at least one good nugget of information, about you learning to use your God given sense.

Fae, when I think about your situation... I wouldn't doubt if there was someone there who cared about you. But I don't think the words you received were necessarily coming from them. I think a lot of it came from you. I think if it were that easy to communicate with spirit, this world would be a lot different.

--------

Also, think about it... why do you need some invisible person to tell you how to live your life? That's like asking your neighbor how to live your life and you're the one going to pay for it should you decide to listen to them or not. Just because someone is a spirit, doesn't automatically mean they're smart. And their opinion of what is good for you, might not necessarily be what actually is good for you.

I don't think it's wise to "look up" to "spirit guides" or anything in the "invisible realm" for that matter. If anything, consider that they make mistakes just like you, and you might even be smarter than them. If anything, realize that you're the one alive, not them... so for all you know, their idea of what is good for you is outdated.

When asking for assistence from "an outside source", consider if you truly want that help. Because it appears to me, that when people go asking for help, the journey they embark on is... less than desireable. Sure, they may come out of it alive and better than ever... but not all the time.

It's like, "be careful what you ask for". Like in that story where a man asks a genie for money. He gets the money, but only because his mother died.

Wow! What a horrid experience you went through! It's sounds similar to my experience in a way. How it lead you. Mine enjoyed the trail of bread crumbs, watching me spin.

I cracked up about farts being God-energy. I did not test it enough. I got sucked in. Months ago I got a trickster and was told by another guide it was a "trickster" when I'd never heard that term before in my life. I protected hard at that time, tested the spirits, used my bible, prayed, surrounded myself in the light of E Holy Spirit- but later got comfy and stopped doing that.

Oddly enough while I am nervous about Spirit in the end i learned valuable VALUABLE lessons. I learned the basis of why this happened is because deapite being begged to love myself i refused to oepn my heart to myself, refused to love myelf. Now I must change that. what I had hoped for was to get messages for others. I was told I would offer spiritual guidance to others and I'm a very loving helpful "fixer" kind of a person so this made sense to me. I was actually given messages, very clear powerful and correct messages, Godly messages, over the 18 months. Like a real "psychic." I WANTED that so badly. It became my undoing.

I no longer want to resort to any type of spirit to give me guidance. I can say that in the past when I would write or do my art I could feel that spiritual energy move through me, a channeling of sorts. I don't ever want to lose that- I know it was of God. Truly loving and of God. I also don't need God ruling my life, and I know He doesn't, because I want to live my own life. I do believe God blesses us and we must ask for what we want. I will do this. Beyond that I never want a spirit guide telling me anything point blank again.

Part of it was my conscience for sure, and it fed off my conscience, my bad thoughts. This is personal but oh well- I've been in love with a married man. Between the sin of it, and the heartache and pain, and me feeling so badly and again- sin... It's not big surprise I attracted a lower energy. But I do know it was a spirit and not just my head. I felt it. Truly felt it.

I am not very telepathic. The first few nights after I burned my letter board I could feel it in my head and I pushed it out. Now all I will accept as truth is messages of love, forgiveness and understanding. The man I love is still somewhat in the picture and I am working to remedy that by phasing him out of my life- but even so I know I didn't deserve the emotional abuse I received due to being human.

Thank you for your words. I am sorry you had such bad experiences. I also feel like I butted into the OP posts so sorry about that!

Originally Posted by IntenseRecall

Trust yourself. Use your common sense. If I had it my way, I'd tell everyone to drop the spirit guide idea now and forever.

I don't think it's necessary to turn to someone else to live our lives. I really don't think it's as easy as people seem to think it is to talk to someone outside ourselves. And when we think we do, I think it's possible that we're really talking to ourselves. And when we seemingly get information that seems outside of ourselves, I think it's possible we muddle it up with our own ego. So like, let's say you get "a message"... and later you get info that you swear you couldn't have ever come up with on your own. Well, you're probably going to automatically assume that both "the message" and the "info" both came from the same source. But, it's possible that's not the case. And even so, I think it's smart to ask for identification (but again, it's possible for our own imagination to get in the way). And if "the source" isn't very clear about who they are and their intentions... that should be a red flag. I would think that if someone outside of us were trying to help us... that actually care about us, they would hopefully be clear about who they are and why they're talking to you.

But also, I think it's possible that too many people put "spirit guides" on a pedestial. I rarely come across anyone who thinks it's possible that "spirit guides" are just regular people. They automatically assume these guides have all the answers. Realistically, they probably don't. And even if they do, why would they give it to you? That would defeat the purpose of you trying to figure **** out on your own.

I think it's possible, that if spirit guides are real, and if they're just regular folk... they might also have their own sense of humor and their own sense of what is right and what is wrong. And these things might not necessarily agree with your own beliefs.

So when it comes to "getting wrong information" from a source seemingly outside of ourselves... if it is truly from outside of ourselves... then consider that when you open yourself up to that kind of stuff, you might also be opening yourself up to being messed with.

I mean consider yourself being dead right now. Consider your friends. Now consider them going, "hey, this dude over there thinks he can hear spirits... let's test him! this might be fun!"

Also, if it were so easy to speak and hear spirit, I don't think there would be so much conflicting information out there.

I mean so many people thought they were getting information about 12/21/2012. Look at how many people feel betrayed by their sources.

Now, that either means they were merely getting information from their own imagination... or their so-called-guides were just feeding them information they thought they wanted to hear. And this should be a good lesson for them... and hopefully they're not still wondering if their sources will help them because it's clear that this type of help isn't help at all... but merely a way to waste your time.

------

Fae, what you experienced infuriates me. After reading what you went through, I immediately wanted to rage about it. Not at you, but at your "guide". I thought, "how dare someone who claims to be helping and loving, say, that at any point, they did not love you." A lot of what you went through conflicts. For example, you say your guide told you to go back to Christianity... but you also think he wants you trust him again. When clearly, trusting him, would be against Christianity. I think it's possible, that your own ego and imagination may have had a lot to do with what you thought you heard.

I feel very emotional about your story because I went through something similar. It started spring of 2012 and I'm still not over it. And I'm not even entirely sure it's over with. In the beginning, I was told things that catered to the illusion of everyone being clones and I was the only real person, that I'm living a dream, that there's a limit to how many times one can incarnate and that I was on my second to last one... and if I don't do what this being says, my next incarnation would be much more difficult and I was given a list of things I would be punished with due to my mistakes in this life. I feel I was lucky enough that this information I received was so bizarre and out of this world, that it conflicted with my common sense so much that I finally told this... source, that I won't do what he says because God is unconditional love, and if I were to receive such punishments, they weren't so far off (such as being crippled, deaf, in a diaper, etc) that I knew since others were born into it and had to go through it, if they can do it... so can I! However, that was only one of many more episodes throughout this past year.

A lot more happened but I'm still not ready to share the entirety of my experiences. But I can see how most of society would call this, being... a trickster of sorts. But there were also times during this... journey, where I tell myself that a lot of what happened, happened because my own ego and negative attitude got in the way. Part of me wants to believe it was never my guide in the first place... that my true guide doesn't communicate in this way. That if we have guides, they have been doing their job since our birth without us knowing and that's the way it should stay. Part of me also believes that guides might be an illusion that we can choose to believe or not. And if we decide to believe they are a part of life, then either our imagination will make one up, or someone who cares about us will volunteer.

I don't know if it's possible for spirits with less than good intentions (such as messing with us for their own entertainment) to interfere when we think we're communicating with our guide. I mean a part of me goes, if there's a good spirit there, and a mischievious spirit pops in... the good spirit should be able to diffuse the situation or call upon friends to help him diffuse it. And since I don't ever hear of stories that cater to this idea... I feel that most of the time, the mischieviousness that we experience must be coming from our own imagination. Also, having a conversation in your head... it's quite a difficult thing to differentiate between your own voice and theirs. I think people thinking they're "telepathic" can be a very dangerous thing, specially in moments when they feel angry or sad.

I say this because I don't want to believe that my "guide" would do and say the horrible things that I've experienced. Because if he did, regardless for the excuses to be made... this "guide" is now an enemy. He is no longer welcome in my sphere of existence. I've been told many lies as well. It saddens me to a point, because throughout my experiences, I was led to believe this... being cares very much about me. And even if this being was my imagination, I'm still angry and bitter towards "the good guys" for allowing this to happen.

I was lucky. I had precognitive dreams that warned me I was going to experience this years before it happened. So I'm lucky that I have this type of... protection.

It was difficult for me to comprehend what was going on. But I feel that the first "episode" of this stuff was to show me that even though I thought (past tense) I was talking to a spirit, that I shouldn't automatically trust spirit. There were more episodes down the line that were even worse than the one I shared. And I know if not for the first one, I may not have come out of the other episodes alive.

My experiences traumatized me to the point that I still hear voices. But these voices don't say much and don't seem to be very smart. They only repeat my own thoughts. They don't sound like a regular voice, they sound like a chipmunk in my ear. And I know this sound was instigated, due to me reading many years ago about how Sylvia Browne says spirit guides sound like chipmunks chirping in her ear. Part of me believes I have this... disorder, due to a self preservation system. Where I was sick and tired of hearing voices so my brain/ego went into hyperdrive and decided this was a smart thing to do to protect myself. But the other part of me, is paranoid that by accepting these things as part of myself... I'll never rid of them.

Because of this, I am resentful for the interactions I have had with "spirit". Part of me feels, that if someone were really trying to help me, and truly cared about me, they never would have interfered in my life in such a way as to cause this trauma. Even these voices were part of my precognitive dreams. I didn't understand what the dreams were the first time I had them, but they repeated themselves again after my episodes started in real life to help me understand.

Fae, if you consider it... everything is God-energy. So an entity saying they are God-energy doesn't automatically mean they're nice. I mean... EVERYTHING is God-energy. You are God-energy. Grass. Air. Farts. Plastic. Rainbows. Rain. Clouds. Cars... everything in existence is God-energy if you want nitpick the idea of what is.

But I am glad that you did receive at least one good nugget of information, about you learning to use your God given sense.

Fae, when I think about your situation... I wouldn't doubt if there was someone there who cared about you. But I don't think the words you received were necessarily coming from them. I think a lot of it came from you. I think if it were that easy to communicate with spirit, this world would be a lot different.

--------

Also, think about it... why do you need some invisible person to tell you how to live your life? That's like asking your neighbor how to live your life and you're the one going to pay for it should you decide to listen to them or not. Just because someone is a spirit, doesn't automatically mean they're smart. And their opinion of what is good for you, might not necessarily be what actually is good for you.

I don't think it's wise to "look up" to "spirit guides" or anything in the "invisible realm" for that matter. If anything, consider that they make mistakes just like you, and you might even be smarter than them. If anything, realize that you're the one alive, not them... so for all you know, their idea of what is good for you is outdated.

When asking for assistence from "an outside source", consider if you truly want that help. Because it appears to me, that when people go asking for help, the journey they embark on is... less than desireable. Sure, they may come out of it alive and better than ever... but not all the time.

It's like, "be careful what you ask for". Like in that story where a man asks a genie for money. He gets the money, but only because his mother died.

what did mean by "doing the work"?
what do they ask you to do?
explain please

Originally Posted by Gaia

what did mean by "doing the work"?
what do they ask you to do?
explain please

I get a funny feeling about why you're asking, and anyway, it's not relevant to my question.

In any case, it doesn't matter. This forum was my last attempt at getting an answer and no one has given me one, that I can tell, so fine. No answer is an answer. And I heard it loud and clear.

Spirituality has brought me nothing but grief, frustration, confusion and exhaustion, and I'm done with it. From now on, I take nothing on faith.

Best wishes to everyone.

[John32241]

Originally Posted by snowtiger

I appreciate the advice and thoughts thus far, but the assumption seems to be that I'm a novice who went into the channeling thing naive and unprotected (not knowing to protect a space with Light or test the guides, for example). Not the case. I don't think I'm dealing with a case of 'false guides' - I think I'm dealing with what a lot of channelers online have faced as far as New Age disappointment - the guidance said something that didn't manifest or was delayed somehow, and I'm sure they didn't go in blindly or get tricked, either. These are well-known, experienced channelers. I highly doubt they (or I) were dealing with 'false guides.' My question was merely one of whether anyone else had experienced this disappointment (with legitimate guides) and how to recover trust and relationship after it's happened.

There's actually an article on this at Golden Age of Gaia's website, about how the Lightworker community were so disappointed when "nothing happened" after all that was predicted by major channels for December 21, 2012. I'm afraid this site won't let me link yet (it says I haven't posted enough), so the article's title is Watching How Our Vasanas Are Formed, so you can do a Google search for it. There's another one that might also be relevant on that site, Sanat Kumara: Our Heartfelt Apologies to the Disappointed.

I hope that clarifies. Sorry for any confusion from how I worded my question.

Hi,

I think that you articulated your request for information appropriately. However most of us have not had a lot of experience with what you are describing.

In my case, I have had decades of experiences working with spirit with many of the issues which you have described.

Let me start by saying that I expected no visible energy changes on that 12-12-(20)12 date. That was a time for establishing energetic Potentials for those willing to do the ongoing work. I do have links which describe some of those things if you are interested.

Now this evolving relationship with the higher self has been a love affair of mine over the last 62 years. My first experience with this bond to Self took place at the age of 8. I have recorded a big experience for me that took place about 10 years ago. Here is the link to that description.
http://www.telepathyacademy.net/foru...php?topic=16.0

I am kind of fond of that thread title Spiritual Deception. It kind of masks the degree of affection which is present between myself(the conscious creative self) and my Spirit.

The key word to appreciate is Patience. Spirit does not work with human perceptions of reality, it works with the actual reality. Spirit is Wise and Loving in ways that the logical brain will never be able to comprehend. Only your heart energy can fathom this wisdom & love. You will intuitively feel when you are being loved and know you need to respond.

The key action word to fully embrace is Trust. Not just in the wisdom and love of spirit, we all know that God is not stupid, but in the human expression and its way of finding the path to that creates a happy life of joy and abundance.

So absolutely, my answer to your big question is Yes.

John

Have you ever heard the phrase 'tough love'? Speaking from my perspective as a fellow stubborn, ego-deceived, fearful seeker, I have experienced instances where information from the spirit realms comes through so clear and concise and then... bamo, nothing! Which is disappointing, to say the least. But then I discovered that one of my lessons in this life is how to deal with disappointment - in myself and in others. I am also learning just how strong I am and how much personal responsibility I have for what happens to me.

We have many levels of mental conditioning which can affect outcomes. Look at your reaction to the 21/12/12 date... you expected something glorious and when it didn't manifest for you, you blamed your guides. Nah - your expectations were wrong, is all.

Look back at EXACTLY what was said and how it was said. Spirit mentors will often give us what we think we want and we will gallop merrily off on our assumptions... Then we come back and say, "But you said..." like a thwarted child. Did they? Or did you hear what you wanted to hear?

An excellent example is the business of dates and months for events. I've lost count of the number of times I've been told 'soon' or a particular month, which hasn't come 'true'. Silly thing is, I still forget to ask - "Which year??" 'Soon' is a relative term in spirit-time.

So - you can lick your wounds and sulk in your corner or you can look at what you have learnt, what you are still learning and what you still need to let go of. Evolution of the soul never ends and is never what it seems.

Originally Posted by John32241

Hi,

I think that you articulated your request for information appropriately. However most of us have not had a lot of experience with what you are describing.

In my case, I have had decades of experiences working with spirit with many of the issues which you have described.

Let me start by saying that I expected no visible energy changes on that 12-12-(20)12 date. That was a time for establishing energetic Potentials for those willing to do the ongoing work. I do have links which describe some of those things if you are interested.

Now this evolving relationship with the higher self has been a love affair of mine over the last 62 years. My first experience with this bond to Self took place at the age of 8. I have recorded a big experience for me that took place about 10 years ago. Here is the link to that description.

I am kind of fond of that thread title Spiritual Deception. It kind of masks the degree of affection which is present between myself(the conscious creative self) and my Spirit.

The key word to appreciate is Patience. Spirit does not work with human perceptions of reality, it works with the actual reality. Spirit is Wise and Loving in ways that the logical brain will never be able to comprehend. Only your heart energy can fathom this wisdom & love. You will intuitively feel when you are being loved and know you need to respond.

The key action word to fully embrace is Trust. Not just in the wisdom and love of spirit, we all know that God is not stupid, but in the human expression and its way of finding the path to that creates a happy life of joy and abundance.

So absolutely, my answer to your big question is Yes.

John

Hi John,
Thanks for attempting to answer my question. I see that you think it's a good thing to trust the guidance, but I didn't really see a reason why trust is a good thing in there. Your story is not an experience that, to me, would engender trust in the guides; it would do the opposite. Sounds to me like spirit took you down an ultimately damaging path when you would have done better to stick to your original plan in that other job and be financially secure. It actually made me sad. I hope things have gotten better for you!

Now, you say spirit is wise and loving in ways that logic can't comprehend; well... to me, leading one into financial and/or emotional destruction, by definition, are not wise or loving behaviors! I think we have our human perceptions of what is a loving relationship for a reason; if we abandon those most universal concepts of love (kindness, thoughtfulness, honesty, compassion, helpfulness, etc.) and say that such behavior as what you experienced financially and I experienced emotionally is "love," then you may as well say abuse is love, that cruelty is love, that lies are love and - I just can't go there. Our emotions are built-in for a reason. Just like our skin tells us when something is hurting us on the outside, our emotions tell us when something is hurting us on the inside, for our own protection, so we can get out of there. I think we'd do well to trust those built-in sensors. And mine are telling me right now, "Walk away before you get hurt any more." That's just how I feel.

Hi Enya,
Wow... where do I begin? I understand that you probably thought you were being helpful, but many of your comments came off as critical. I point this out so that, in the future, someone who might potentially be helped by what you have to say will not be offended (and thus made unwilling to listen) by your use of language and comparisons.

Originally Posted by Enya

Have you ever heard the phrase 'tough love'? Speaking from my perspective as a fellow stubborn, ego-deceived, fearful seeker, I have experienced instances where information from the spirit realms comes through so clear and concise and then... bamo, nothing! Which is disappointing, to say the least.

I must object to the characterization that I am a "stubborn, ego-deceived, fearful" seeker. Those are some pretty negative labels, and judging someone you don't know is not a great way to establish rapport. You might want to avoid that in future.

As far as 'tough love,' isn't that something for violent offenders & drug addicts, people who have no alternative way of being reached? 'Tough love' by definition should be a last resort, not something you would use on one who was a very faithful, receptive and open believer.

Originally Posted by Enya

But then I discovered that one of my lessons in this life is how to deal with disappointment - in myself and in others. I am also learning just how strong I am and how much personal responsibility I have for what happens to me.

So, is life on its own not disappointing enough, that the guides would need to jerk you around to teach you MORE disappointment? I find that very unlikely.

As for taking personal responsibility, I do believe we are responsible for our CHOICES, for our BEHAVIOR, but beyond that, we are not responsible for 'what happens to us.' If we are kind, honest, loving & take care of our responsibilities, but bad things happen anyway, or certain good things fail to happen, is that our fault? I don't believe so. Some things are simply beyond our control.

Originally Posted by Enya

We have many levels of mental conditioning which can affect outcomes. Look at your reaction to the 21/12/12 date... you expected something glorious and when it didn't manifest for you, you blamed your guides. Nah - your expectations were wrong, is all.

Look back at EXACTLY what was said and how it was said. Spirit mentors will often give us what we think we want and we will gallop merrily off on our assumptions... Then we come back and say, "But you said..." like a thwarted child. Did they? Or did you hear what you wanted to hear?

An excellent example is the business of dates and months for events. I've lost count of the number of times I've been told 'soon' or a particular month, which hasn't come 'true'. Silly thing is, I still forget to ask - "Which year??" 'Soon' is a relative term in spirit-time.

My expectations were specifically based on what I was told would happen in a certain month in a certain year. That month came and went. This happened more than once. That was not me misinterpreting, not me "galloping off in my assumptions," that was me being TOLD something very specific which failed to appear. So... not a matter of "hearing what I want to hear." Sorry. That's simply inaccurate.

It's also insinuating that I should blame myself for 'hearing wrong' rather than them for 'being wrong.' Um... in a dimension above ours, knowing our limitations, shouldn't they be attempting to relate things to us on OUR level, rather than us having to guess at interpreting theirs correctly? That would make more sense than saying "Shame on me, I should've been wearing my secret guide decoder ring, which... oh yeah. They never gave me."

Originally Posted by Enya

So - you can lick your wounds and sulk in your corner or you can look at what you have learnt, what you are still learning and what you still need to let go of. Evolution of the soul never ends and is never what it seems.

"Lick my wounds and sulk in a corner?" I'm sorry, but that sounds very pejorative. You've already used the 'thwarted child' imagery and I feel I need to speak to this. I feel you've (hopefully without meaning to!) painted me as the spiritual equivalent of a screaming child who throws a tantrum when it doesn't get the toy it wants in Walmart and then pouts. First off, I don't think that's fair, and second, I don't think it's accurate. Again, if you aren't intending to offend someone, you might want to avoid language like this in the future.

In case you've not read my comment to John, personally, I've decided to just call it quits with the spiritual realm. If a person I was dating behaved as the guides have, I would have already broken up with him. At this point, I'd rather walk away with what's left of my self-respect than bend over backwards trying to make a relationship work, especially when I don't see them doing the same.

Best wishes to you! - Snow

[Sarian]

First off, I have no idea if I have guides or not. People have told me I do...one claims I have a chinese man and another is an indian, I think. Who knows. I can't fall into the hype about guides because I have no real experience about it and just because others claim we have guides, the jury is still out on that one for me. I often do feel guided, I might add, but again, is it me, my intuition? Perhaps there are higher powers that do guide me and if so, I'm very much appreciative.

My thought to you is why do you allow yourself to fall to hype? (guides, 12/21/12 and all that?)

I had a few experiences that tore me down...knocked me down, as though to strip me of foolish beliefs to give me a clean slate and start over. Find your own truths, don't rely on others.

What am I, chopped liver? Oh noes, did I ascend to another dimension and you cant see my posts? D:!!!!!!!! lol, that's funny... because of the 2012 ascension stuff. nudge, nudge. get it?

=P

I answered you:

Originally Posted by IntenseRecall

Trust yourself. Use your common sense. If I had it my way, I'd tell everyone to drop the spirit guide idea now and forever.

I don't think it's necessary to turn to someone else to live our lives. I really don't think it's as easy as people seem to think it is to talk to someone outside ourselves. And when we think we do, I think it's possible that we're really talking to ourselves. And when we seemingly get information that seems outside of ourselves, I think it's possible we muddle it up with our own ego. So like, let's say you get "a message"... and later you get info that you swear you couldn't have ever come up with on your own. Well, you're probably going to automatically assume that both "the message" and the "info" both came from the same source. But, it's possible that's not the case. And even so, I think it's smart to ask for identification (but again, it's possible for our own imagination to get in the way). And if "the source" isn't very clear about who they are and their intentions... that should be a red flag. I would think that if someone outside of us were trying to help us... that actually care about us, they would hopefully be clear about who they are and why they're talking to you.

But also, I think it's possible that too many people put "spirit guides" on a pedestial. I rarely come across anyone who thinks it's possible that "spirit guides" are just regular people. They automatically assume these guides have all the answers. Realistically, they probably don't. And even if they do, why would they give it to you? That would defeat the purpose of you trying to figure **** out on your own.

I think it's possible, that if spirit guides are real, and if they're just regular folk... they might also have their own sense of humor and their own sense of what is right and what is wrong. And these things might not necessarily agree with your own beliefs.

So when it comes to "getting wrong information" from a source seemingly outside of ourselves... if it is truly from outside of ourselves... then consider that when you open yourself up to that kind of stuff, you might also be opening yourself up to being messed with.

I mean consider yourself being dead right now. Consider your friends. Now consider them going, "hey, this dude over there thinks he can hear spirits... let's test him! this might be fun!"

Also, if it were so easy to speak and hear spirit, I don't think there would be so much conflicting information out there.

I mean so many people thought they were getting information about 12/21/2012. Look at how many people feel betrayed by their sources.

Now, that either means they were merely getting information from their own imagination... or their so-called-guides were just feeding them information they thought they wanted to hear. And this should be a good lesson for them... and hopefully they're not still wondering if their sources will help them because it's clear that this type of help isn't help at all... but merely a way to waste your time.

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Also, think about it... why do you need some invisible person to tell you how to live your life? That's like asking your neighbor how to live your life and you're the one going to pay for it should you decide to listen to them or not. Just because someone is a spirit, doesn't automatically mean they're smart. And their opinion of what is good for you, might not necessarily be what actually is good for you.

I don't think it's wise to "look up" to "spirit guides" or anything in the "invisible realm" for that matter. If anything, consider that they make mistakes just like you, and you might even be smarter than them. If anything, realize that you're the one alive, not them... so for all you know, their idea of what is good for you is outdated.

When asking for assistence from "an outside source", consider if you truly want that help. Because it appears to me, that when people go asking for help, the journey they embark on is... less than desireable. Sure, they may come out of it alive and better than ever... but not all the time.

It's like, "be careful what you ask for". Like in that story where a man asks a genie for money. He gets the money, but only because his mother died.

But to shorten the answer, no, don't trust your guides. You don't need them. You never did. If you have true guides, they've been trying to help you with common sense, logic and reasoning your whole life. They've never needed to adjust their way of communication with you. And once you do adjust it, you never know what you'll get back. I mean this type of communication is all in your head... so how can you differentiate between your own thoughts/actions and theirs? Unless you can physically see someone sitting in front of you talking (and if that's the case, you might want to get a brain scan, not being a smartass, but there really are head disorders that people get... some people just have nicer more polite head disorders based on their personality/ego or whatever), there's no guarantee that you're getting information from anyone. And even if you are, there's no guarantee that person is right.

I've had a conversation with the voice in my ears and they were completely biased to my own thoughts. I once asked them a question that I did not know the answer to. I was purposely thinking of a false answer so as not to use my own intellect to try and come up with a half *** answer that I might potentially accept. This voice then used my false answer and that pointed out to me, they are not a valid source of information. I can't say or not whether my brain created this voice, or if someone/thing is messing with me (I don't really think it's someone else, because if so, they have a TON of time on their hands since it's with me from the time I wake up, from the time I try to fall asleep for the past several months; and they never have anything intelligent to say).

If you weren't talking to your own ego/imagination, you were talking to someone who was messing with you. Either they were trying to please you because they were bored. Or they were trying to teach you that you shouldn't trust everything you come into contact with in the manner in which you did.

When you consider telepathy... consider, how would it work if there let's say, 5 speakers. It would be nice if they all had manners and stated their name before speaking like a chatroom, but I doubt this is the case. So you never know who you're talking to, or if they have your best intentions in mind. If they truly are a spirit, they might not have anything else better to do than see if they can get their jollies messing with someone who gives them the time of day.. and it's possible that after you die, you might find that you were talking to someone that you feel didn't deserve your attention at all.

When considering speaking to the "spirit world"... consider it like a chatroom with their own trolls. I mean, we have trolls on Earth, what do they do when they die? They don't necessarily want to hurt people by trolling (some do), but some might truly enjoy the "art of trolling" and might take this hobby with them when they cross over and use it against humans. And in the end, they can always use the excuse, "I was testing you. It's your fault if you made poor decisions because of it."