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  #31  
Old 20-01-2018, 02:12 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
Life can only be understood as a whole. When we try to squeeze life into something called an individual entity with an individual brain we will definitely come up with answers, connotations, permeations but we cannot expect to have our questions answered concerning deeper matters and if we try to answer our quandaries using the attitude of the single individual brain etc. to experience this wisdom regarding deeper matters expect to be frustrated. We will be lost in the circularity of the ego self with some smidgens of purported freedom thrown in to the search on occasion which keeps the contusion evolving and frustrated. In wholeness there is peace. Real authenticity and uniqueness and individuality contains the whole and is never far from wholeness even when the task to hand seems very worldly. As a man once said to Tiger Woods back in his day, You're never far from the hole !!!
I can't go along with "In wholeness there is peace" (peace understood as 'stillness' here) because, the way I see and experience It, 'the whole" is in constant co-motion, so "agitation" (in the sense of 'stirring excitement') and "movement" are real aspects of THE whole! process.

I can and do go along with "If one understands 'wholeness' one can 'love' and 'enjoy' instead of 'dislike' and 'fight' with what's going on in It."

I think people often react to the 'discomforts' that choices and actions which are necessarily part and parcel of both of the aforesaid ('positive' and 'negative') modalities by desiring to withdraw into the kind of peace (passivity?) I] that one experiences in 'peacefull sleep'. No 'problems' to 'solve' and so no possible 'suffering' of ''failure' there, aye what?

That course of inaction doesn't 'sit well' with 'me', however (meaning 'I' don't 'sit well' with that, except for short respite-periods. that is.)

The Life-Force (Creator? Brahman?) 'in' 'me' impels 'me' to active participation, which includes 'calling' others to join in conjoint positive-goal oriented activity.

Living and blazing (i.e. making 'marks' which point to) a 'path' in such regard, hoping it will inspire others to join with (the likes of) me 'walking' said 'walk', in chapter one of my book I wrote:

"You are not your own beginning or end. Neither are you just an offshoot or continuation of ancestral energies. You exist in resonant relationship with all else. The power that stimulates and sustains your every thought, feeling and action comes from All That Is in and around you. “In him we live, and move, and have our being” (Acts 17:28), is how this was expressed long ago, in then colloquial terminology.

Every one of us is a creative instrument ‘sounding’ in time, part and parcel of an orchestration in which each affects all and all affect each. “I am in the Father, and the Father in me” (John 14:10) didn’t just apply to the one who boldly made such claim; it is true as well of you and me. We are, all in all, joint heirs to what the marriage of sun and earth has produced, brothers and sisters who both share and contribute to a common pool of physical and psychospiritual energy.

Even as you choose to act, you are not totally autonomous, for we are all aspects of a Living Whole, which continuously renegotiates the accumulated impetus of the past, through multi-modal Self-expression in the present, into a future that is conjointly desired and conceived. In maximal perspective, it is the Spirit-of-All-Life that perpetually incarnates Itself within each and every being, who serve as vehicles for Its further expression and development, to whatever degree is made possible by their current capacity for resonance and responsivity.

On a personal level, as you exercise yourself within such process, you may cause reverberations which augment development and consequent well-being. But, if contrary to or out of phase with what goes on around you, you may also bring about repercussions that are hurtful and deleterious. As any musician well knows, attunement and cooperation are essential for there to be a harmonious expression of creative energies.

Assuredly, frustration and failure are in store for those who don’t coordinate themselves with others in space and time, whether because of inconsideration or intractability. Those who just suit themselves and not others, as they detract from more than they add to what they are part of, cause contextual impoverishment, and so ultimately precipi*tate their own defeat. It cannot be otherwise. Those who simply consume all that they can, who don’t set aside enough and do what is necessary to seed the next spring, must eventually suffer conditions of stringency. Even a devoted mother, finally reaching the point of exhaustion, will become averse to a child that is constantly demanding. You may draw your own, more far-ranging conclusions from such examples, by analogy.

Those who are out of step with or oppose the progression of Life around them naturally end up withering, the flow of energy sustaining them disrupted by dissonance, reduced to a trickle, in time of critical shortage cut off completely. Conversely, as is true for a child who learns to pump in time with a swing, those who synchronize their movements with goings on around them reach great heights, quite exhilaratingly.

On a transpersonal scale, as everyone contributes to the co-motion, waves of thought, feeling and behavior ripple and ricochet around the globe, cumulatively adding to the vibration of the platform on which we stand, building in resonance as they sweep through the race. At present in particular, with populations soaring and availability diminishing, these are approaching a crescendo of intensity. Those who are conscientious are becoming more loving and co-ordinated in the process; those who are selfish, more paranoid and alienated. Those who are hopeful are buoyantly choosing paths of constructive action; those without hope are sinking deeper into depression and degeneracy. Tension is mounting as people take sides; polarities of attitude and expectancy are reaching extremes.

We are approaching a snapping point. Ultimately, triggered by ecological breakdown, consequences will be cataclysmic. Depending on whether aligned with positive or negative trends, some will move higher up on Life’s evolutionary ladder, others will fall—our dilemma will be resolved by a massive catharsis.

Take heed, for what you now choose affects, for better or worse, what happens in the future, not only to you but also to those who you are most cogently involved with. Since you are an integral part of Life’s process, you are bound to move and be moved, one way or another, by current developments and ongoing themes.

But also take heart, if you are one who subscribes to what is good. As times of want alternate with times of plenty, the crises engendered, though painful and upsetting to go through, are on the whole very creative. Attributed to
‘the hand of God’ by some and to ‘natural selection’ by others, a process of culling then takes place which, far from being random, is positively discriminating and therefore, in final terms, constructive.

Individuals and groups that are reciprocal and sharing emerge ascendant, resonantly reinforced by one another, despite general shortage, overcoming their difficulties. Those that are unresponsive and unrelated atrophy in isolation; unless they change for the better, they weaken and fail eventually. Those that are antagonistic and oppositional fare worst of all; their energy depleted by friction and their momentum destroyed by clashes and collisions, their creative thrust is halted and reduced to nullity.

With every denouement, asynchronous and discordant elements are deleted, while more cooperative and coordinated embodiments proceed forth, the degree of harmonious integration increasing as each new stage succeeds.
"
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Last edited by davidsun : 20-01-2018 at 03:50 PM.
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  #32  
Old 20-01-2018, 04:02 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
Oh I love your perspective there. I see what you mean about becoming one part of the whole in a forest. It's pretty easy to expand that exact feeling out to the rest of existence.
As any adept musician (and muse-ician ) well knows, you are in Nirvana wherever you may 'here-and-now' be if you love and enjoy and so 'groove' with whatever you are 'here-and-now' seeing, hearing, feeling, saying and doing (or not doing)!

This realm of 'duality' is the perfect medium to 'abrade' and so polish your rough edges till you love-and-joy-'jewel' shine!

Life's 'design' in this regard couldn't possibly be any 'better', IMO.

'Buddhistic' self-annihilation (emotional 'detachment') isn't at all a 'requirement' in this regard, except it may the only way that 'novices' get a 'sense' of what the 'goal' in this regard is, IM0.

Woohoo!

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  #33  
Old 20-01-2018, 04:25 PM
slash112 slash112 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
As any adept musician (and muse-ician ) well knows, you are in Nirvana wherever you may 'here-and-now' be if you love and enjoy and so 'groove' with whatever you are 'here-and-now' seeing, hearing, feeling, saying and doing (or not doing)!

This realm of 'duality' is the perfect medium to 'abrade' and so polish your rough edges till you love-and-joy-'jewel' shine!

Life's 'design' in this regard couldn't possibly be any 'better', IMO.

'Buddhistic' self-annihilation (emotional 'detachment') isn't at all a 'requirement' in this regard, except it may the only way that 'novices' get a 'sense' of what the 'goal' in this regard is, IM0.

Woohoo!


Yeah I agree with all that.

One of the first things I explain to anyone looking for enlightenment is that what they are looking for, they already are. 'Tis a magical truth.

It's funny cause even though there is no goal, when you take the perspective that there is a goal, there are actually a few different things that could be referred to as the goal.

- For example, dissolution of the ego. When you're no longer looking through the filter of the ego, you are realized and in Nirvana.

- Or, with a totally nondualistic perspective, you are realized and in Nirvana.

- Or, if your sense of self lies completely in the stillness of the self, you are realized and in Nirvana.


When I say that I "stay in duality", I am actually referring to taking a conscious back-step in all 3 of these things, and probably more.
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  #34  
Old 20-01-2018, 08:57 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
I don't know if Boddisattvas are allowed to even have tastes of Nirvana....

Bodhisattvas abide in full enlightenment and in this way serve the world:

MAKA HANNYA HARAMITA SHIN GYO-
THE GREAT PRAJNA PARAMITA HEART SUTRA

KAN JI ZAI BO SA GYO- JIN HAN-NYA HA RA MI TA JI

Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva, practicing deep Prajna Paramita,

SHO- KEN GO ON KAI KU- DO IS-SAI KU YAKU.

clearly saw that all five skandhas are empty,
transforming anguish and distress.

SHA RI SHI SHIKI FU I KU- KU- FU I SHIKI

Shariputra, form is no other than emptiness,
emptiness no other than form;

SHIKI SOKU ZE KU- KU- SOKU ZE SHIKI

form is exactly emptiness, emptiness exactly form;

JU SO- GYO- SHIKI YAKU BU NYO ZE

sensation, perception, mental reaction, consciousness are also
like this.

SHA RI SHI ZE SHO HO- KU- SO- FU SHO- FU METSU

Sha-riputra, all things are essentially empty--
not born, not destroyed;

FU KU FU JO- FU ZO- FU GEN

not stained, not pure; without loss, without gain.

ZE KO KU- CHU- MU SHIKI MU JU SO- GYO- SHIKI

Therefore in emptiness there is no form, no sensation,
perception, mental reaction, consciousness;

MU GEN-NI BI ZES-SHIN I

no eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind,

MU SHIKI SHO- KO- MI SOKU HO-

no color, sound, smell, taste, touch, object of thought;

MU GEN KAI NAI SHI MU I SHIKI KAI

no seeing and so on to no thinking;

MU MU MYO- YAKU MU MU MYO- JIN

no ignorance and also no ending of ignorance,

NAI SHI MU RO- SHI YAKU MU RO- SHI JIN

and so on to no old age and death,
and also no ending of old age and death;

MU KU SHU METSU DO-

no anguish, cause of anguish, cessation, path;

MU CHI YAKU MU TOKU I MU SHO TOK'KO

no wisdom and no attainment. Since there is nothing to attain,

BO DAI SAT-TA E HAN-NYA HA RA MI TA KO

the Bodhisattva lives by Prajna Paramita,

SHIM-MU KEI GE MU KEI GE KO MU U KU FU

with no hindrance in the mind; no hindrance and therefore no fear;

ON RI IS-SAI TEN DO- MU SO- KU GYO- NE HAN

far beyond delusive thinking, right here is Nirvana.

SAN ZE SHO BUTSU E HAN-NYA HA RA MI TA KO

All Buddhas of past, present, and future live by Prajna Paramita


TOKU A NOKU TA RA SAM-MYAKU SAM-BO DAI

attaining Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi.

KO CHI HAN-NYA HA RA MI TA

Therefore know that Prajna Paramita

ZE DAI JIN SHU ZE DAI MYO- SHU

is the great sacred mantra, the great vivid mantra,

ZE MU JO- SHU ZE MU TO- TO- SHU

the unsurpassed mantra, the supreme mantra,

NO- JO IS-SAI KU SHIN JITSU FU KO

which completely removes all anguish.
This is truth not mere formality.

KO SETSU HAN-MYA HA RA MI TA SHU

Therefore set forth the Prajna Paramita mantra,

SOKU SETSU SHU WATSU

set forth this mantra and proclaim:

GYA TEI GYA TEI HA RA GYA TEI HARA SO- GYA TEI

Gate gate paragate parasamgate

BO JI SOWA KA HAN-NYA SHIN GYO-

Bodhi sva-ha-!

Be well

BT
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  #35  
Old 20-01-2018, 09:20 PM
slash112 slash112 is offline
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Oh ok that helps a lot, thanks again!

I misunderstood because I read one of the definitions of Boddhisattva as "(in Mahayana Buddhism) a person who is able to reach nirvana but delays doing so through compassion for suffering beings."
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  #36  
Old 20-01-2018, 10:57 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
Oh ok that helps a lot, thanks again!

I misunderstood because I read one of the definitions of Boddhisattva as "(in Mahayana Buddhism) a person who is able to reach nirvana but delays doing so through compassion for suffering beings."

Yes, a Bodhisattva does delay it too - it is an interesting juxtaposition.

Take care and thanks for your kindnesses.

BT
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  #37  
Old 20-01-2018, 11:23 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
Oh ok that helps a lot, thanks again!

I misunderstood because I read one of the definitions of Boddhisattva as "(in Mahayana Buddhism) a person who is able to reach nirvana but delays doing so through compassion for suffering beings."
That is my understanding of what a 'boddisattva' is as well. BTW, "maha' literally means 'big' or 'great', as in Maharaja meaning the 'big' or 'great' king and Maharishi meaning 'big' or 'great' wise-man (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishi in this regard). It is my impression that that the 'Maha' in 'Mahayana Buddhism' references what those who subscribe to it think, feel and believe is indicates a bigger/fuller level of realization than 'Hinayana' variety.

The
"no old age and death,
and also no ending of old age and death;
no anguish, cause of anguish, cessation, path;
no wisdom and no attainment.
Since there is nothing to attain,
the Bodhisattva lives by Prajna Paramita,
with no hindrance in the mind; no hindrance
and therefore no fear;
pro-claim-ation and (hence) advocacy, strikes me (each to his own 'taste', aye what? ) as being a very avoidant way of Life, which is to say that I think it is not really living at all, at least as not fully living!

As I wrote in my book, in which among other things I critically analyze prior (historic) attempts to deal with 'problems' associated with 'the human condition':
"What is our primary problem? As already explained, in becoming dominant, we grew too big for instinct to carry and clothe. As long as we remain partial in attitude and intent, to the degree we don’t transcend narrow self-interest and effectively care for all that we are part of, harsh winters of our own making will continue to catch us, in rags and tatters, out in the cold.

So, what most needs doing? The very nature of the ‘drive’ that directed development all the way from the simplest kinds of gravitational, nuclear and electromagnetic associations to our current level of coherence must be creatively modified and redirected. Its unbridled ‘ascendancy’ to date is the very reason why we repeatedly outstrip and overrun our environmental base and end up abusing and being abused by others and fighting and squabbling among ourselves, instead of graciously sharing and serving to complement Life’s munificence.

More than two and a half thousand years ago in what is now India, pondering the human predicament in light of what was then and there believed and known, the one most have since called Buddha,a because distress was so pervasive, saw suffering as a central feature of earthly Life, and, because people were generally so selfish in aspiration, identified desire itself as the root-cause of such condition. Consequently, as a first order of business, he counseled a nirvanic state be sought wherein desire is renounced and, if not relinquished completely, at least held in abeyance.

But, though extremely beneficial in many ways, such advice is partial and therefore deficient unless there’s complementary learning. Because it focuses on the problem of suffering and ways to bring about its cessation, those who ‘religiously’ attend to it frequently end up giving short shrift to what is equally, if not more important: the why and wherefore of creative proficiency and joyful expression. While it is true that much that is of negative consequence can be prevented or, at least, overcome by relinquishment of desire, we won’t bring about, and so won’t enjoy, greater goodness unless we comprehend and learn to constructively channel the dynamic of Creativity.

Since [color=red]Life/color] is Creativity and Creativity is causal purpose in action, desirelessness is far from being an optimal goal (assuming such a state could actually be sustained, it would be totally Life-denying!). It is therefore important that we recognize that focusing on extinguishing desire, more than as a temporary exercise which enables us to develop the equanimity necessary to stop ourselves from being swayed by instinct, since other creatively crucial tasks—namely, developing and extending our capacity for constructive relationship and beneficent generativity—are then neglected, may not only be a waste of precious vitality, but result in atrophy and be crippling in effect in the long run.

For Life to flower and be more fruitful, desire must be discriminatingly refined and selectively accentuated. That is, what we desire and how we go about trying to attain it must be beneficially altered by greater awareness and understanding of the unitary nature and psychospiritual dynamic of Being. To promote such occurrence, relevant truth has been repeatedly stated; and I do so again: Individually, each of us is a transient aspect of an interwoven, ongoing whole. No one, as such, continues forever, and, except in illusion, no one has, or can ever have, a separate existence of his or her own. We maximize or minimize our own essential validity and creative potency to the degree to which we do or don’t cooperate with and contribute to developments that go on around us. Of itself, selfishness goes nowhere in the end.

But mere articulation of this truth is not enough. If it was, we’d already be getting along quite well together, because it has historically been stated in ways that are both profound and eloquent. Raising consciousness and inspiring unselfish involvement aren’t accomplished that easily. Indeed, at times, they are just about impossible, for, particularly when threatened by prospect of loss, selfishness has a tendency to tighten its innately powerful grip. Those so motivated then strive even more strenuously to insure their own welfare; if for more than that, then only for their own ‘kind’ to benefit. They not only reject but often actively persecute those who openly proclaim and conscientiously walk the path of what is holistically right and fitting. Because logic would otherwise dictate that self-interest be deliberately disregarded, sometimes even totally sacrificed, for greater good to ensue, many go to all sorts of extremes to still the voice of conscience and deny comprehensive truth."
It goes on from there, of course. "The unsurpassed mantra, the supreme mantra, which completely removes all anguish. This is truth not mere formality." strikes me as being as 'naive' a 'dream' as that of 'Christians' who 'dream' of everlasting happiness being the the result of and associated with 'hanging out' (forever!) with 'Jesus' and 'God' in a totally suffering-free 'heaven'.

The suffering-free, no anguish 'state' doesn't even come close to what I think of as being maximally Love-and-Joy full) way of living, i.e of being!
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  #38  
Old 20-01-2018, 11:30 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by slash112
Yeah I agree with all that.

One of the first things I explain to anyone looking for enlightenment is that what they are looking for, they already are. 'Tis a magical truth.

It's funny cause even though there is no goal, when you take the perspective that there is a goal, there are actually a few different things that could be referred to as the goal.

- For example, dissolution of the ego. When you're no longer looking through the filter of the ego, you are realized and in Nirvana.

- Or, with a totally nondualistic perspective, you are realized and in Nirvana.

- Or, if your sense of self lies completely in the stillness of the self, you are realized and in Nirvana.


When I say that I "stay in duality", I am actually referring to taking a conscious back-step in all 3 of these things, and probably more.

It's probably a little more involved than that because there are two aspects involved which are self realisation, which I think you are describing; and purification, healing, alignment, integration, or whatever you want to call it.
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  #39  
Old 21-01-2018, 12:04 AM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
It's probably a little more involved than that because there are two aspects involved which are self realisation, which I think you are describing; and purification, healing, alignment, integration, or whatever you want to call it.
BTW, Slash (slashing what, I wonder? ) -

If you continue to decide to engage and be of service while (for as long as) 'you' are 'here', I suggest you do that because you will actualize/fulfill more of your potential that 'way', and not for some condescending 'noblesse oblige' reason which is 'high-falutin' feel-less-guilt-and-more-good-about-your-self bull-dung (in anyone's case IMO.

Humanity's 'higher' evolution will continue and Life will continue to 'flower' and 'fructify' whether you (personally) contribute to such process, or not!

Live to live, IOW. To that end, I suggest you divest yourself of any and all 'Boddhisatva' related beliefs and pretensions.

OORAH! I say this to you as an 'equal' Life-form 'soldier' 'friend'!
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  #40  
Old 21-01-2018, 08:58 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by davidsun
BTW, Slash (slashing what, I wonder? ) -

If you continue to decide to engage and be of service while (for as long as) 'you' are 'here', I suggest you do that because you will actualize/fulfill more of your potential that 'way', and not for some condescending 'noblesse oblige' reason which is 'high-falutin' feel-less-guilt-and-more-good-about-your-self bull-dung (in anyone's case IMO.

Generally I have an underlying wish for the well-being of all beings, so my overriding motivation is toward service.

Quote:
Humanity's 'higher' evolution will continue and Life will continue to 'flower' and 'fructify' whether you (personally) contribute to such process, or not!

I would find most meaning in my life if the fact I lived a life has some sort of beneficial effect.

Quote:
Live to live, IOW. To that end, I suggest you divest yourself of any and all 'Boddhisatva' related beliefs and pretensions.

I never mentioned it. Are you sure your addressing the right person?

Quote:
OORAH! I say this to you as an 'equal' Life-form 'soldier' 'friend'!

Did you spend time in the armed services?
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