Being right on the 8 fold path

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

In Buddha it may end when you've been at nirvana process. That's equal to as a person has become a Buddha. What's liberation? How many person have become truely be a liberation person?

Do you know where's you record book in you? That's the secret of life. So how can you liberates anything for you if you don't know what's and where's your karma stay? Buddha Sakyamuni actually don't know where's the record book of a person stay so he thinks that it's gone after the liberation or become nirvana or Buddha. Karma is life that means you can erase your life then you're death. So what's life for?

you are just continuing your ignorant speculative talk instead of not ignoring what buddhism teaches.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by Ground

your remark does not make sense.

First: Why should "not accepting" be 'part of liberation'? And why "not accepting" generally without specifying an object that isn't accepted?


The object I specified was what buddhism teaches, more specific ' that there is no karma effect for someone who is liberated.' Therefore:

Second: why should someone who is a buddhist on the path to buddhist liberation not accept what buddhism teaches about liberation?

Third: why should someone who has attained buddhist liberation not accept what buddhism teaches about liberation?


Not accepting the teachings of the buddha actually is an instance of the fetter ignorance in buddhism.

There're a lot of funny ideas that Tibetan Buddhism teach of liberation of karma. Can they see karma and can they see the ending of karma or just guessing that it's gone? Buddhism says so? Why not creator says so? Do you ever see astral light? Or can you rectify the record there? HAHAHA you can try your best to reach there if you can, then you'll entering of the light which will become giant light and giant energy field. Then you'll become a tiny condition of your consciousness there or in a cosmos light ---- giant energy and light field.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by Ground

Sorry but the topic is buddhism. The topic isn't your private beliefs. What buddhism is about can be directly perceived by everybody who is willing and has healthy senses. Please be referred to the suttas if interested.

What's can be perceived by everybody? Can they see karma? Or just feeling or guessing work? Suttas is made by human or by creator? Karma is in code form, that's how creator tells me. Or it's you life or a result of your lastlife or former life. I've written so many previously and no one read it? Especially the one who do evildoing to others.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by Ground

you are just continuing your ignorant speculative talk instead of not ignoring what buddhism teaches.

Is Buddhism or Buddha becomes creator already? Or your ignorant is flourishing? Tibetan Buddhism like to use spells and incantations then that Buddhism will be delivered of karma after liberation of volition. Before or after the doing? So are they becoming creator also? That's great after doing of sin then have a good liberation of sin then they'll be so call ignorant.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

Do you know what you're saying?

Yes.

Volition=karma =cessation of volition????

Kamma is volition, so the cessation of volition is the cessation of kamma.

So what is karma effect for? Now I kill a person, after I kill a person, now I stop thinking to kill a person, then I've no sin for that killing. So you go to tell the judge that you have cessation of volition. Can it be that way?

When you kill a man that could be of malicious intent which is born of highly adverse reactivity like hatred, and that reactive intent is kamma. With every volition or kamma there is produced sankara, and sankara are potentials that arise in conscious awareness later on - sometimes almost immediately, sometimes much later.

Whatever intent the judge produces is his kamma, not yours, and you going to prison is not your kamma, but your strong aversions toward going to prison are.

It's like you have a record book then you change it to not records at all in your life or anything you've done, so are you sure what you're saying? Do you know where's the record book is?

Of course all your past sense experiences make up who you are today, and coming to peace with all the past involves the passing of all the old sankaras.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

When you are liberated from your own "knowledge confinement"you will most likely have a deeper understanding and move beyond that alone. I see where your relating from, understand what your conveying and yes, it makes sense,but eventually liberation calls for a more inclusive awareness and deeper understanding of the knowledge and lived experience as one.. So, no it doesn't change the Buddhist teachings and yes,if looked at more directly as you show it all makes perfectly sound logical sense, but the personal lived experience of each one in process will at certain points over ride any teachings to overcome the bounds of self through the whole unfolding. Your knowledge based views fall short of deeper understanding of others. For you it becomes "right knowledge" but integrate the eight fold path "right views " and that integration and understanding doesn't lend itself to one or two of eight. It's the whole eight working in harmony, unfolded and experienced individually to harmonise as one eight fold in self. I feel your "teacher mode" believes it has no more to learn or understand of others in the way you choose to relate here. I never hear of your lived experience.

Sure, right views are not quite as simple as knowledge but go to a deeper sense of how one sees, and there is a way of seeing that enables insight into the nature of things, such as the impermanence of experience - and in this example - there is a difference between seeing it reasonable, for obviously it's all impermanent, and actually touching impermanence directly as the realisation of it. Thus, 'being right' about impermanence and having a 'right view' of the nature of experience are different things, and in Buddhist terms, we're primarily concerned with the latter.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by Gem

Yes.



Kamma is volition, so the cessation of volition is the cessation of kamma.



When you kill a man that could be of malicious intent which is born of highly adverse reactivity like hatred, and that reactive intent is kamma. With every volition or kamma there is produced sankara, and sankara are potentials that arise in conscious awareness later on - sometimes almost immediately, sometimes much later.

Whatever intent the judge produces is his kamma, not yours, and you going to prison is not your kamma, but your strong aversions toward going to prison are.


Of course all your past sense experiences make up who you are today, and coming to peace with all the past involves the passing of all the old sankaras.

There's a possibilities that it does happen in a dream that's why after you wake-up your volition is gone but life isn't that way , even dream affect one's daily doing. So you think human life is no record then why Buddhists or Buddhism had to believe karma. Just to say, in this world there's no karma or in modern day karma is not existing.

Killing is one's karma but judge is according to law so he has no karma and he's appointed to do his work. So he won't produce any self karma.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ground

Actually its funny that you cannot acccept what buddhism teaches because even buddhism teaches that there is no karma effect for someone who is liberated.

Well, yes and no, depending on what one means by liberated, but in the teaching there are angles to it, where one refers to the cessation of volition and the other refers to the complete dissolution/purification of all sankara.

Now if you're a buddhist and you doubt that another is liberated from karma effects then on what basis do you doubt since you cannot perceive the mind of another? What basis other than conceit can there exist? Conceit which is one of the fetters in buddhism.

It would be 'wrong' in the Buddhist sense of the word to render comparisons of selves... as such self imagery can be observed in its arising. One image of myself may be a higher figure, and that we call conceit, for the other-self figure need be rendered lower to substantiate such higher forms.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Ground

Sorry but the topic is buddhism. The topic isn't your private beliefs. What buddhism is about can be directly perceived by everybody who is willing and has healthy senses. Please be referred to the suttas if interested.

Sorry but the topic is "being right on the eight fold path."

There is no private belief in a direct lived experience that becomes a natural inclusion of this topic.

Of course where you "stand",I would have to assume you probably haven't discovered yourself in this way of being yet.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

There's a possibilities that it does happen in a dream that's why after you wake-up your volition is gone but life isn't that way , even dream affect one's daily doing. So you think human life is no record then why Buddhists or Buddhism had to believe karma. Just to say, in this world there's no karma or in modern day karma is not existing.

Killing is one's karma but judge is according to law so he has no karma and he's appointed to do his work. So he won't produce any self karma.

In the visions of dreams volitions arise just as in waking life.

I said the person is the sum of all that has passed, and didn't say there is no record.

For the last time, kamma is volition, intent, motive, reactivity like aversions and desires. It produces results (called sankara), but the results/events are not kamma - reactivity, volition, to events are.

This implies that a person can be at peace with all events, at equanimity, as all things arise and pass away. That is the end of volitions, which is what 'kamma' means.