Levels/Layers of Progression

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

Nothing like "levels" to excite the ego; nothing like "nothing to do" to satisfy the intellect either.

I would agree that "levels" can be a major hinderance and why it really isn't talked about within my practice.

Many people were asking about stages of progression and this was put together.

The nothing to do I have found is very much misunderstood. Many people use it as an excuse to do nothing at all.

What does "being" mean if you have no experience of silence in daily life?

What does nothing to do mean if you are not at the stage of being where thoughts are non-attaching energy flowing through you aka Rigpa?

You have to have some depth of being before one even begins to think of the nothing to do.. just be.. stuff.

I would say the nothing to do or residing and letting it flow through starts here:

level 7 - Classically called the open crown, this is when you start to get cracks in the local mind version of sense of self. One starts to notice/touch the divine/light. Anyone who reaches this stage will often experience a divine being (or guru) to help them cross over into the light/divine. No fear of death at this stage.

[jonesboy]

Adding some more depth to a few of the levels for discussion.

Level 4 (or opening of the heart) is the basis and necessary for all spiritual development beyond level 7 and above. There are many traditions that attempt to bypass the heart and only focus on the 3rd eye (higher mind aspects), but ultimately these structures are not a stable base and the energy structure with crumble. It is not love like an exchange or trade of affection, it is more a spark of radiant giving. Like a parent who will sacrifice all for a child. And at higher levels it is more like the heart grows to include the higher chakras, and with greater clarity it all merges into one, giving rise to the potential for what people call the light body.

Level 5 is when we start to directly transmit energy to others and our environment, with level 6 beginning to be the conscious awareness of the reception and understanding of that “outside” energy. One starts to be able to touch upon and access parts of the broader universal mind. Fun astral stuff.

Level 7 starts when one can give up individual desires and struggles that go with them and simply trust. Accept and go with the flow of the divine. Surrender and wait for “grace”. That is the help of divine beings or a guru can be valuable, as they give a local mind representation for that surrender to the divine flow. And with it one can realize the emptiness of individual self, which takes you to level 8.

[jonesboy]

I thought it might also be useful to try to give some greater context regarding these layers/level. I am not talking about intellectual knowledge or like reading about it in some book. As one consciously realizes a layer, they "know". It is like you deep down always really had access to it, but for some reason you "being it" was obscured (or blocked). And with that knowing, it is not some vague thing that you can't describe (or is vague), it something that you can explain or attempt to give context to.

As an example, I thought I would give you some written examples of knowing at an extremely high level. In both cases, the following texts are from someone who has "realized" at least to level 11. They know what it is to "be" beyond our current universe and dimensional reality. The first example is someone actually explaining the steps in the process. What you do and what happens to get there. This is from the Tao Te Ching - Chapter 28...

Know the strength of man,
But keep a woman's care!
Be the stream of the universe!
Being the stream of the universe,
Ever true and unswerving,
Become as a little child once more.
Know the white,
But keep the black!
Be an example to the world!
Being an example to the world,
Ever true and unwavering,
Return to the infinite.
Know honor,
Yet keep humility.
Be the valley of the universe!
Being the valley of the universe,
Ever true and resourceful,
Return to the state of the uncarved block.
When the block is carved, it becomes useful.
When the sage uses it, he becomes the ruler.
Thus, "A great tailor cuts little."

The second is someone writing who is describing what it is like when someone has realized that level. It is not just vague words, but an actual attempt to give insight into the being of that level. It is from the Avatamsaka Sutra...


Great bodhisattvas have no attachment to Buddha and do not develop attachments;

they have no attachment to the teachings and do not develop attachments; they have

no attachment to lands and do not develop attachments; they have no attachments

to sentient beings and do not develop attachments. They do not see that there are

sentient beings, yet they carry on educational activity, civilizing and teaching ways


of liberation; they do not give up the practices of bodhisattvas with great compassion

and great commitment. Seeing buddhas and hearing their teachings, they act accordingly;

trusting the buddhas they plant roots of goodness, ceaselessly honoring and serving them.


They are able to shake infinite worlds in the ten directions by spiritual powers; their minds are

broad, being equal to the cosmos. They know various explanations of truth, they know how

many sentient beings there are, they know the differences among sentient beings, they know

the birth of suffering, they know the extinction of suffering; while knowing all acts are like reflected

images, they carry out the deeds of bodhisattvas. They sever the root of all subjection to birth.


They carry out practices of bodhisattvas for the sole purpose of saving sentient beings and yet

do not practice anything. Conforming to the essential nature of all buddhas, they develop a mind

like an immense mountain. They know all falsehood and delusion, and enter the door of omniscience.

Their knowledge and wisdom are broad and vast and unshakable, due to the attainment of true enlightenment. This is the insight of practical knowledge of equally saving all sentient beings in the ocean of birth and death.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I would agree that "levels" can be a major hinderance and why it really isn't talked about within my practice.

Many people were asking about stages of progression and this was put together.

The nothing to do I have found is very much misunderstood. Many people use it as an excuse to do nothing at all.

What does "being" mean if you have no experience of silence in daily life?

What does nothing to do mean if you are not at the stage of being where thoughts are non-attaching energy flowing through you aka Rigpa?

You have to have some depth of being before one even begins to think of the nothing to do.. just be.. stuff.

I would say the nothing to do or residing and letting it flow through starts here:

level 7 - Classically called the open crown, this is when you start to get cracks in the local mind version of sense of self. One starts to notice/touch the divine/light. Anyone who reaches this stage will often experience a divine being (or guru) to help them cross over into the light/divine. No fear of death at this stage.

Level 7 you mention, when it first opened in me was quite profound. The cracks were thick and fast. I did have a being assist me in some way. I Cant say which was me and which was them because it is a very fast manifestation process that ends the bounds of you and the spirit world, my sense of their intervention was most often around and activating me in some way. As part of facing fear of death, that was the end result of that time and opening. In some ways I would call this a life review point of awareness and shifting and expanding and opening to the deeper universal truths that are kept hidden through the mind and fears. I was clearing out the conditioned mind and remnants keeping fear of death in me plus opening to a more expansive greater truth beyond what I only believed at that time.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Level 7 you mention, when it first opened in me was quite profound. The cracks were thick and fast. I did have a being assist me in some way. I Cant say which was me and which was them because it is a very fast manifestation process that ends the bounds of you and the spirit world, my sense of their intervention was most often around and activating me in some way. As part of facing fear of death, that was the end result of that time and opening. In some ways I would call this a life review point of awareness and shifting and expanding and opening to the deeper universal truths that are kept hidden through the mind and fears. I was clearing out the conditioned mind and remnants keeping fear of death in me plus opening to a more expansive greater truth beyond what I only believed at that time.

Very nice Nature.

Would you like for me or a friend to check and pm you what we get?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Very nice Nature.

Would you like for me or a friend to check and pm you what we get?

Sorry.. check what ?

[naturesflow]

Oh you mean the being at the time that became one with me and my process.

If I look back now where I am, I created and broke it down into the form I needed at the time. The reason I shared it that way is because I am aware now that I am ending the blur between spirit and myself. I am ending the illusion of spirit being separate in me. So that time of opening was actually showing me the whole and the break down as I needed. Now I just connect to "spirit" as a source within me, its all one from that time integrated.

I would be curious as to what you share all the same. So please feel free.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Sorry.. check what ?

To check on where you are at? What is open and to see if we can help provide any additional insight for you.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I would agree that "levels" can be a major hinderance

Yet you persist and believe you can teach?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

To check on where you are at? What is open and to see if we can help provide any additional insight for you.

I do regular checks on myself to notice such matters. I am very in tune with myself, of course currently in my processing I am moving through something, so I am aware of change forthcoming.

But just for today and to surrender to your offerings, go for it. Lets see if my connections are in synch with yours. :)