crystals and Christianity?

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by Triner

If there's anything, anywhere, anywhen, anywho, anywhat, etc. that is not a part of God, then God would not be infinite

How do you know this is true? A finite mind isn't capable of understaning what is possible with an infinite God. Unless you have received this information from an infininte source or you have a mind which is infinite and therefore capable of comprehending God there is no basis for believing that this is true.

Originally Posted by theophilus

The use of crucifixes in worship is contrary to the Bible. There are many places where the use of any kind of image in worship is forbidden. Also, crucifixes present a false picture of the gospel. According to 1 Corinthians 15:3,4 the gospel is that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead. To show Christ still nailed to the cross is to show a false and incomplete gospel.


If you rely on crystals or anything else as a way to approach Christ then you have two mediators between you and God. The Bible may not specifically forbid the use of crystals but it does forbid adopting any of the practise of false relgions.

You are incorrect in your presentation of scripture; In the Old Testament, the high priests used what was called the Urim and Thummim to ascertain the will of God. The Urim and Thummim were an acient divination device that was most likely composed of "CRYSTALS" and worn on the breat plates of the high priests. Although it is uncertain as to how the Urim and Thummim actually worked, it is well known that it was a divination device used by the ancient Hebrews.

In the New Testament, we read were early Christians cast lots. Again, it is not fully known how this was done, but it is believed to be either a divination device that was cast like dice or even resembling the I-ching. The casting of lots was however a form of divination that was used to ascertain the will of God.

Both the Urim and Thummim and the casting of lots were never condemned in scripture or demanded to be done away with by God. God condemned divination as practiced by "pagans and heathens." because it was believed that they were using such devices to petition other gods or even the spirits of the dead. The Hebrew God however did sanction his own form of divination in the Urim and Thummim because it was said to access the will of the one true God... This sentiment was carried over in the act of casting lots by the early Christians.

When we come off saying that, "the Bible forbids this." we are voicing the idea of western religion and it take on the scriptures. Yet there is nowhere in the Bible where these things are forbidden in the context of the Christian faith. And just a little research will prove this out.. Organized religion will tell us these things are forbidden; but that is their idea and thoughts on the matter. History and the Bible say something different. And when hard pressed, even the religionists will eventually admit as much.

[Triner]

Originally Posted by theophilus

How do you know this is true?

First of all, it makes perfect, beautiful, complete sense to me. So, since we were made in God's image, it all rings true and paints a beautiful picture. It came first from a meditation on the infinite. When one touches the infinite, it's quite remarkable.

Originally Posted by theophilus

A finite mind isn't capable of understaning what is possible with an infinite God. Unless you have received this information from an infininte source or you have a mind which is infinite and therefore capable of comprehending God there is no basis for believing that this is true.

You're welcome to limit yourself all you want. It's easy to follow others' thoughts and rules and dogma in the Bible if you maintain that you're too "limited" (or, in other words, ignorant) to understand more.

Once I recognized that many things in the Bible are there to keep us limited and separate from God and thus trapped in a dogmatic circle, I shed those shackles of ignorance. Once those shackles were gone, the world, and everything in it, went from being a place of sin, fear, and vengeance (or what some like to call "Justice") to a beautiful place of Love. Love erupts everywhere, from everything, it's quite beautiful when you recognize it.

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by Triner

Once I recognized that many things in the Bible are there to keep us limited and separate from God and thus trapped in a dogmatic circle, I shed those shackles of ignorance. Once those shackles were gone, the world, and everything in it, went from being a place of sin, fear, and vengeance (or what some like to call "Justice") to a beautiful place of Love. Love erupts everywhere, from everything, it's quite beautiful when you recognize it.

Triner - NICE!

Blackraven

Well for what it's worth, I've worked shamanically with crystals, with wood, with feathers, drums, stones... I've toned, I've chanted, I've danced, I've prayed, I've read cards... none of which is seen as 'Christian' and yet, this fella called Christ Jesus Emanuel keeps turning up and patiently waiting for me to acknowledge Him again. If you consider that all things are connected and thus are all part of Source and vibrate to that eternal Love, then when a part of that Source is touched with love, you need seek no more.

As I consider myself a Christian (since i believe in the teachings of Christ and accept Him as part of my spiritual Source; though many of my beliefs would probably be shunned and thrown down heretic valley by most modern day Christians, sadly), my own opinion in regards to the use of crystals is as follows:

Go for it.

I myself view crystals as quite metaphysical, and that in no way stand against the Christian faith (again, I see quite a few, if not most, scriptures as symbolic rather than literal. Though there is definitive history in them.). I feel as if the Energies possessed by them can be quite beneficial to the spirit, to chakras, to day-to-day life.

And as psychoslice said, it'd be a great way to brighten up the generalized malarkey that the organized religion of "Christianity" has become, heh.

Originally Posted by Enya

Well for what it's worth, I've worked shamanically with crystals, with wood, with feathers, drums, stones... I've toned, I've chanted, I've danced, I've prayed, I've read cards... none of which is seen as 'Christian' and yet, this fella called Christ Jesus Emanuel keeps turning up and patiently waiting for me to acknowledge Him again. If you consider that all things are connected and thus are all part of Source and vibrate to that eternal Love, then when a part of that Source is touched with love, you need seek no more.

I know many people who have had the same experience. You're words are true and inspiring. I don't think God is on the edge of his seat, so to speak, just waiting to damn all the pagans and new agers. I believe that when the Divine Spirit comes across a seeking soul, it communes with that person and leads them into higher truths. God isn't interested in religious tags and dogma... he is interested in our heart.

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

I believe that when the Divine Spirit comes across a seeking soul, it communes with that person and leads them into higher truths. God isn't interested in religious tags and dogma... he is interested in our heart.

That's it exactly, Mind's Eye. There are many, many paths to the Divine and when they are walked with a heart full of love, then the doors are open wide.

[Morpheus]

Enya:

You are incorrect in your presentation of scripture; In the Old Testament, the high priests used what was called the Urim and Thummim to ascertain the will of God. The Urim and Thummim were an acient divination device that was most likely composed of "CRYSTALS" and worn on the breat plates of the high priests. Although it is uncertain as to how the Urim and Thummim actually worked, it is well known that it was a divination device used by the ancient Hebrews.

One may call them either Crystals, or Jewels, I suppose. Gems.
Also called the, "Ephod", worn on the chests of the priests.
A gold breastplate embedded with the gems. I believe one each, for the twelve tribes of Israel.
Another word eludes me, which also pertains to a person, the seer in Greek, or Roman mention, who went into the certain cave to offer up prophesy. ?

Various cultures gave importance to gems, or crystals, such as in Hinduism also.
Also in the Bible, while it is stated that witchcraft is forbidden, yet we read of the branches or stalks of a certain flowering plant were cast down for divination, to determine actions in things.
Enya:

That's it exactly, Mind's Eye. There are many, many paths to the Divine and when they are walked with a heart full of love, then the doors are open wide.

It's kind of curious though that some espoising this take exception to Jesus Christ, and the Bible. When brought before Pontious Pilate, Jesus responded to Him thatHe came to bear witness to, "The Truth", and that all who are of the Truth would hear Him. Many of various faiths do hear Him and cite Him also.

Triner:

"If there's anything, anywhere, anywhen, anywho, anywhat, etc. that is not a part of God, then God would not be infinite ."

Theophilus, but it's true.
St. Paul, also, in seeing in Greece a tribute statue to the, "Unknown God", quoted one of their poets, saying he came to preach this God to them,
"In Whom we live and move and have our being."

Consider also, regarding Jesus remarks when entering Jerusalem on the donkey, about the rocks crying out if the people were to keep silent in their exclamations, that, "the rocks would cry out".
That, it isn't just what we consider animate life that has awareness, but the inanimate also, in the world.
Evreything in the world is, "aware", on a certain level, or other. God resides in all, or, ought we to say all resides in Him?
And, as physics tells us, also, what we consider solid and real isn't as solid or real as we percieve, from this limited organic perspective, in a, "Construct", of time and space.

[Morpheus]

BTW, I had come across this some time ago, concerning minerals...
"After oxygen, silicon is the second most abundant element in the solid crust of the earth.
It is present not only in silica sands, but also in an astonishing variety of compounds containing, besides oxygen, a range of metals.
Collectively called silicates, these materials are the major constituents of the earth's crust.
Silicon compounds are, literally, as common as dirt. Some less common silicates are highly prized for their color and the beauty of their crystals, such as the gemstones beryl, garnet, jade, opal, topaz, and zircon."

In a Grain of Sand - The World and I Magazine

Of course, as we are told in the Bible, we are made up of the Earth's, "Dust".
Which same is essentially, "Stardust"...and fundamentally, "Starlight".

All life is biology, all biology is physiology, all physiology is chemistry, all chemistry is physics, all physics is maths,
all maths is energy, all energy is Light, all Light is Conciousness.