A simple question

[Element 5]

Originally Posted by rodan

Assuming scientists are correct in estimating the age of the universe, ( 14 to 15 billion years old.), the age of the earth ( approx. 4.5 billion years old )

Assume homo sapiens has been around approx. less than 200,000 years.

The industrial revolution, of the late 1800's, was a major jumpstart for humanity. Then, in 1945, we entered the atomic, then nuclear age. Nano technology is here in 2014. There seems to be no end to what man can learn and achieve.

Mankind's increase in knowledge, compared to pre-1800's. is probably gaining the attention of any other entities that may exist in the Universe, assuming they are there, and, assuming they can watch us, or, be here.

In response to OP, it seems " they " are starting to make themselves known, to us, rather gradually. ( increase in UFO sightings, cropcircles, channelers, etc.)

Human beings are just in the infancy of what could be out there in the Universe. Think of us as infants, and, old, wise beings out there, are watching and caring for us. We, as infants, cannot possibly understand what they are trying to tell us.

Excellently put!

[fall-sky]

Imagine if we can find signs of life on Mars or the atmosphere of Venus or a moon of Jupiter. Even if the evidence is only fossils of microbes that went extinct long ago it would show that life is likely under the right conditions.

So by studying our own solar system we might get a better estimate of the density of intelligent life in the universe.

UFOs are weird and it's hard to understand their purpose IMO.

fall-sky, I take your point. Some UFO researchers are convinced these are indeed paranormal phenomena and not ET visitations.

I personally think there's a good chance we are dealing with a species that lives right here on earth. While this may sound unlikely, there are some positive aspects to that possibility.

1) It explains why they would care enough to try to change us. I wrote a paper about how UFOlogy has generated a modern myth that reverses the myth of the hero, which holds our (violent) culture together. The hero myth is our central myth. Reversing it and getting that reversal to take hold in the popular imagination will change our culture over time. There is evidence they've been doing this for thousands of years. Maybe they are doing it not so much for our benefit as to prevent US from wrecking their planet.

2) I think it's likely that we might have encountered alien life forms and did not even recognize them as such. If we can't imagine something we can't see it. Have you ever noticed that in our minds aliens are about our size and somewhat humanoid? No reason either should be so.

3) We can't define life and we can't define intelligence and yet we constantly wonder if there is other intelligent life in the universe. How can that go anywhere? We understand almost nothing IMO.

4) It's possible that when societies become like ours they burn out so fast the likelihood of meeting similar others is very small. Could be thousands of human like civilizations in the universe that, like our own societies, burn out very very quickly and disappear.

Just a few of my random and usually unwelcome thoughts on this issue.

Life takes many forms, and it I feel that microbial alien stuff has been transported to this planet in debris, the evidence for this seems to be in the research of the Grave Nunataks 95229 meteor strike , much more to read on that score here..

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/about-us/news/2011/march/meteorite-with-abundant-nitrogen-for-life-on-earth95139.html

So life here did start out there apparently. The complexities fold in on them selves from here on in alas.

Tech for physical transportation is rendered obsolete when one considers that consciousness, being as it is , without mass, can be any where and everywhere at the same time. Telepathy being one such example of this.

We Humans are getting it slowly, look at me now, I no longer have to be stood in your lounge. looking at you in your lovely deep eyes to be communicating directly with you. Here I am , miles away in a different time zone.

Think of all those radio waves out there, It is how radio telescopes work btw. Thank of your Brain, a transmitter and receiver. Them thar Aliens may have sussed all this already. Sure we get the odd stories of physical intervention from the heavens e.g.

http://biblehub.com/genesis/6-4.htm

This , one way or another points to a visiting intelligence. but just as easy could be a metaphor for the above linked Grave Nunataks explanation.

Fallen Angels /Demons?? Where did the Angels fall from ? Heaven that is to say the Heavens, Where did they land Right here on this Planet of course. Its all about subtext really.

So who are we.. The Aliens or at least thats what your gene pool is suggesting if you came from the meteor strike that booted existence on this Earth as we know it.

Now please forgive me, this is a a massive subject , so I must refer to my own research in this area. And in so doing refer you to post 12 here.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=44983&page=2&highlight=Garden+of+ Eden

Anyway having gone right round the houses as usual, It is my contention that "Aliens" have been here all along and we are it.

Yes you do not have a star ship, but you have something much better, a consciousness that can be anywhere at anytime. The flesh suit is an elaborate ruse on the part of creation so that it can continue to manifest through us. at least as far as I can see.

Space travel, adventures in the 4th Dimension and presumably other dimensions, this is the stuff of pulp sci fi fiction in the 60's news stand paperbacks and yet it finds it's grain in the imagination of the author and captures the imagination of it's reader(a bit of dot joining there, a connection through awareness.)

I am called to mind as I write of the saying /contention (I forget which) that Jesus was a Space Man... It certainly goes some way , whether it was a joke or not , to suggest that Aliens do not have to visit if they can be born here.

Gawd, I do go on....It is my small, possibly hopeless wish that someone , somewhere has been given plenty to think about from my excessively rambling missive... but in my defence, this subject is indeed huge in its proportions.

In peace

Neville, cool post.

I think the key to understanding what is going on is to re-understand and respect imagination as a human faculty. Not imagination as in 'making things up' but more like primary imagination, as in, the spontaneous apperception of symbolic imagery.

Sometime around the Enlightenment we kicked imagination to the curb and now take it to mean something like 'a shallow entertainment' or worse, 'a delusion or lie.' But this is so screwed up. Reason is closer to a lie in that it is arbitrary and reductive. Imagination can come from outside the self and it can be what analogue is to digital. It can expand outwards, and does.

Understanding the world this way comes before speech developmentally, and it does seem to me that the beings people keep calling 'aliens' communicate this way--through dreams, imagery, symbol.

Your post made me think of how Carl Sagan kept saying we (human beings) are 'star stuff', as in, we are literally made of the same stuff as the stars.

Originally Posted by pgrundy

Neville, cool post.

I think the key to understanding what is going on is to re-understand and respect imagination as a human faculty. Not imagination as in 'making things up' but more like primary imagination, as in, the spontaneous apperception of symbolic imagery.

Sometime around the Enlightenment we kicked imagination to the curb and now take it to mean something like 'a shallow entertainment' or worse, 'a delusion or lie.' But this is so screwed up. Reason is closer to a lie in that it is arbitrary and reductive. Imagination can come from outside the self and it can be what analogue is to digital. It can expand outwards, and does.

Understanding the world this way comes before speech developmentally, and it does seem to me that the beings people keep calling 'aliens' communicate this way--through dreams, imagery, symbol.

Your post made me think of how Carl Sagan kept saying we (human beings) are 'star stuff', as in, we are literally made of the same stuff as the stars.

Imagination is indeed key , too often a division/distinction is created between what is real and what is imagination. I don't really know why , because what we imagine often becomes real for us anyway.

I am in debt to the imaginations of (fill in Author, Movie Director, Composer, Musician as applicable)

My Life would lack something without the imaginations of Lewis Carroll, J M Barrie, J K Rowling, J R R Tolkein, Richard Wagner, Beethoven, Chopin and Lady Ga Ga. to name but a very small number.

I also would like to express thanks to all those inventors who's imagination turned produced a physical creation.

Fridges, x rays , antibiotics and too many other things that we have grown to take for granted.

Imagination is to me integral to creation of which we just so happen to be a part of. Apologies for going off topic there , I just wanted to confirm my own belief that imagination is a faculty too.

Spirit communicators would be lost without this faculty as far as I have learned so far.

I don't think it's off topic at all. There is no science, no 'reality' without imagination. In a very profound way we (as a culture) have become alienated from ourselves. Look at the elements of a typical abduction. It's a parody of science. And still no one seems to 'get it'.

[fall-sky]

Originally Posted by pgrundy

fall-sky, I take your point. Some UFO researchers are convinced these are indeed paranormal phenomena and not ET visitations.

I personally think there's a good chance we are dealing with a species that lives right here on earth. While this may sound unlikely, there are some positive aspects to that possibility.

1) It explains why they would care enough to try to change us. I wrote a paper about how UFOlogy has generated a modern myth that reverses the myth of the hero, which holds our (violent) culture together. The hero myth is our central myth. Reversing it and getting that reversal to take hold in the popular imagination will change our culture over time. There is evidence they've been doing this for thousands of years. Maybe they are doing it not so much for our benefit as to prevent US from wrecking their planet.

2) I think it's likely that we might have encountered alien life forms and did not even recognize them as such. If we can't imagine something we can't see it. Have you ever noticed that in our minds aliens are about our size and somewhat humanoid? No reason either should be so.

3) We can't define life and we can't define intelligence and yet we constantly wonder if there is other intelligent life in the universe. How can that go anywhere? We understand almost nothing IMO.

4) It's possible that when societies become like ours they burn out so fast the likelihood of meeting similar others is very small. Could be thousands of human like civilizations in the universe that, like our own societies, burn out very very quickly and disappear.

Just a few of my random and usually unwelcome thoughts on this issue.

pgrundy, can you go into more detail about reversing the hero myth?

Hi fall sky.

Sure. I just realized, looking for my article, that my UFO blog is offline because I didn't renew the name/domain/whatever. I will try to rename it so it can go back online and if you want you can read the essay.

Here are some boiled down points though:

The story of the abductee is a reversal of all the major elements of the myth of the hero:

• The hero sets off on a dangerous quest/The abductee is taken from a familiar 'safe' place.
• The hero chooses his quest and volunteers/The abductee is chosen and taken involuntarily.
• The hero controls monsters or slays them/The abductee is controlled or used for procreation.
• The hero is usually male and strong/The abductee is usually female and vulnerable.
• The hero dominates dark forces/The abductee mates with dark forces.
• The hero emerges as a victorious separate self/The abductee emerges with dual identities or multiple selves.
• The hero draws and maintains the boundary between self and other/The abductee softens and blurs the boundary between self and other.
• The hero develops reason and wit/The abductee develops intuition and creativity.
• The hero controls/The abductee yields.
• The hero conquers fear/The abductee assimilates and transforms fear.

(I used to spend a lot of time writing for the interwebs but now not so much. It gets depressing fast.)

Here's a link to another essay I wrote about this topic under my CR pseudonym:

http://crrookwood.hubpages.com/hub/A...-Same-Creature